Primobolan - underrated for muscle gain?

[Jaxino]

I absolutely respect your opinion man, you definitely know your stuff based on your post history. I guess we all weight the risks of certain steroids we introduce into our own bodies. Ya know what I mean?

I personally would not use EQ because I was an alcoholic for a very long time in my younger years, so my kidney health is paramount.

Here are some articles you might find interesting. I'm still doing more research into EQ but so far I'm not comfortable using it

Boldenone Undecylenate-Mediated Hepatorenal Impairment by Oxidative Damage and Dysregulation of Heat Shock Protein 90 and Androgen Receptors Expressions: Vitamin C Preventive Role - PubMed

Boldenone Undecylenate (BLD) is a synthetic derivative of testosterone and a widely used anabolic androgenic steroid. The health risk of BLD use as a pharmaceutical or dietary supplement is still underestimated and under-reported. Vitamin C (VC) has been recognized as an antioxidant with...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Boldenone undecylenate disrupts the immune system and induces autoimmune clinical hypothyroidism in rats: Vitamin C ameliorative effects - PubMed

The present study was designed to evaluate the effects of boldenone undecylenate (BL) abuse alone and in combination with vitamin C (VC) on the immune responses and thyroid structure and function in rats. Thirty adult male Wistar rats were randomly divided into five equal groups and were...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Show me the research that says Primo is safe on kidneys, none.....

If you listen carefully to Coach Steve, which reads a ton of researches, in the end said that no steroid is safe and the ONLY way to go is to use them and do bloods.

Take EQ/Primo, do C Statine C blood test and evaluate.

 

[nightprowler7]

Show me the research that says Primo is safe on kidneys, none.....

If you listen carefully to Coach Steve, which reads a ton of researches, in the end said that no steroid is safe and the ONLY way to go is to use them and do bloods.

Take EQ/Primo, do C Statine C blood test and evaluate.

I don't know who coach Steve is lol

Show me research that shows primo isn't safe for the kidneys. Isn't that what you should be asking?

 

[gx52a]

Coach Steve

I swear to God if you're talking about that clueless dipshit on YouTube...

 

[readalot]

in the end said that no steroid is safe and the ONLY way to go is to use them and do bloods.

Good point. Add heart and other organ surveillance (onerous) to the blood work.

The potential effects of anabolic-androgenic steroids and growth hormone as commonly used sport supplements on the kidney: a systematic review - BMC Nephrology

Background Anabolic-androgenic steroids and growth hormone are among the most commonly used supplements by sportsmen and sportswomen. The aim of this systematic review is to collect and report available data about renal safety of anabolic-androgenic steroids and growth hormone (GH). Methods The...

link.springer.com

For those interested, At least read the conclusion to better under the mechanisms in play with the kidneys. Abuse of any androgen can be detrimental especially with the additional factors involved with BB.

They include potentiating RAAS, enhancing the production of endothelin, producing reactive oxygen species, promoting oxidative stress, inducing apoptosis and inflammatory cytokines (such as TNF-α, IL-1b, and IL-6), and over-expression of pro-fibrotic and pro-apoptotic mediators, such as TGF-β1. However, it should be noted that kidney involvement in athletes receiving anabolic-androgenic steroids can be at least partially attributed to other independent factors and mechanisms such as high-protein diet (via increase in renal blood flow and GFR), elevated blood pressure (via hypertensive arterionephrosclerosis), bile acid nephropathy (secondary to cholestatic jaundice), rhabdomyolysis, and nephrocalcinosis (secondary to exogenous vitamin D intoxication

 

[readalot]

Show me research that shows primo isn't safe for the kidneys

Abusive use of any AAS is not safe for the kidney. Nothing special about methenolone. See article posted above. Get familiar with mechanisms in play with supraphysiologic dosages of AAS with respect to kidney. Throw in individual tolerance, preexisting issues, lifestyle, etc.

Sincerely,
"Coach" readalot LOL (don't have a youtube channel)

 

[readalot]

Definition of SAFE

free from harm or risk : unhurt; secure from threat of danger, harm, or loss; successful at getting to a base in baseball without being put out… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Be careful guys and gals.

Burden of proof (philosophy) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

When two parties are in a discussion and one makes a claim that the other disputes, the one who makes the claim typically has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim, especially when it challenges a perceived status quo.[1] This is also stated in Hitchens's razor, which declares that "what may be asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence." Carl Sagan proposed a related criterion – "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" – which is known as the Sagan standard.[2

Example...

Someone claims AAS (as in a PE&ID context) are safe for the kidney. Who has the burden of proof? Especially in light of what we know about kidney physiology and evidence to date.

 

[gx52a]

Abusive use of any AAS is not safe for the kidney. Nothing special about methenolone. See article posted above. Get familiar with mechanisms in play with supraphysiologic dosages of AAS with respect to kidney. Throw in individual tolerance, preexisting issues, lifestyle, etc.

Sincerely,
"Coach" readalot LOL (don't have a youtube channel)

Some AAS have documented hepatic and renal toxicity. Metenolone is not one of them: if it has any hepatic and/or renal toxicity, it's not sufficiently pronounced as to gain the notoriety of, for example, Superdrol.

In Japan they prescribe this stuff to old ladies with muscle wasting. The "AAS are ALL bad for you" disclaimer notwithstanding, the reputation of metenolone for safety is well-earned.

 

[readalot]

I don't fully trust that stuff. I haven't found any literature about it, but it seems rather easy for an intramolecular SN2 reaction to occur between the trichlorinated carbon and the -OH, forming an epoxide, which is a potential alkylating agent (albeit a sterically-hindered one). That carbon is very electrophilic due to the presence of the 3 chlorines.

Thanks again for bringing this up. Nice review:

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/scientific-guideline/chmp-safety-working-partys-response-cmdh-questions-chlorobutanol_en.pdf

Check out the derived PDE.

 

[GreenAmine]

Thanks again for bringing this up. Nice review:

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/scientific-guideline/chmp-safety-working-partys-response-cmdh-questions-chlorobutanol_en.pdf

Check out the derived PDE.

That whole thing seems a bit questionable. None of the tox studies were definitive, and it even tested positive on one of the AMES tests. Then they proceeded to use a LOEL that was ridiculously high to derive the PDE.

I'm not saying that this stuff is that toxic, but this seems very sketchy. They even state:

"The published toxicological studies were not considered suitable to derive a PDE for chlorobutanol due to severe limitations of these studies with respect to study design and treatment durations."

 

[readalot]

That whole thing seems a bit questionable. None of the tox studies were definitive, and it even tested positive on one of the AMES tests. Then they proceeded to use a LOEL that was ridiculously high to derive the PDE.

I'm not saying that this stuff is that toxic, but this seems very sketchy. They even state:

"The published toxicological studies were not considered suitable to derive a PDE for chlorobutanol due to severe limitations of these studies with respect to study design and treatment durations."

Using that PDE for 50 kg human, the long term dose of Himka TE works out to be 140 mg/week max (5 mg CB per 200 mg of TE).

I don't like the cardiotoxicity risks. Perhaps the Empower 2% BA test enanthate the "safer" option.

Thanks for taking a look.

 

[GreenAmine]

Using that PDE for 50 kg human, the long term dose of Himka TE works out to be 140 mg/week max (5 mg CB per 200 mg of TE).

I don't like the cardiotoxicity risks. Perhaps the Empower 2% BA test enanthate the "safer" option.

Thanks for taking a look.

140 mg/week if you want to be right at the PDE haha. I would definitely switch to the Empower TE.

I have my doubts about benzoic acid as well though (thermodynamically- and entropically-favored decarboxylation to form CO2 and benzene). But that shit seems to be in everything. Chemistry can ruin anything. The activation energy is probably rather high though, so unless it's exposed to high heat (like when brewing), the reaction probably won't occur to a significant degree.

 

[effswithtren]

Show me the research that says Primo is safe on kidneys, none.....

If you listen carefully to Coach Steve, which reads a ton of researches, in the end said that no steroid is safe and the ONLY way to go is to use them and do bloods.

Take EQ/Primo, do C Statine C blood test and evaluate.

“Coach Steve” is a moronic hackfraud and anyone who listens to him carefully will gain insight into nothing but the tragic consequences of fetal alcohol syndrome.

 

[clayface91]

Yeah I’ve been trying to make EQ work as an AI anabolic for awhile and I’m about to throw in the towel. Between different rates of ester accrual and dialing in an already problematic endeavor, I’m getting pretty tired of wasting syringe space that could have been put towards something a whole lot better than fucking EQ.

I use bold cypionate for this reason. Cypionate is close enough to enanthate that it works pretty well... such that you don't need to adjust the doses mid-cycle like you would when EQ blood levels finally peak. However boldenone kills my libido so I need a little 200mg drostanolone in there too to get it normal. Can be kinda hit or miss for that reason.

 

[lukiss96]

I use bold cypionate for this reason. Cypionate is close enough to enanthate that it works pretty well... such that you don't need to adjust the doses mid-cycle like you would when EQ blood levels finally peak. However boldenone kills my libido so I need a little 200mg drostanolone in there too to get it normal. Can be kinda hit or miss for that reason.

I think if you don't respond well to certain steroid it's best to seek for alternatives. I wouldn't use anything that I feel bad on again. My logic is you gotta feel good on your blast and cruise, no point in doing something you don't enjoy and put 100% effort.

 

[clayface91]

I think if you don't respond well to certain steroid it's best to seek for alternatives. I wouldn't use anything that I feel bad on again. My logic is you gotta feel good on your blast and cruise, no point in doing something you don't enjoy and put 100% effort.

I agree with that. There are other options for a mild injectable cycle. I personally don't want to do 19-nors for multiple reasons.. So basically the options are
1. high test + AI (feel good on this, might go back to it)
2. test + bold + drost (feel same but look better on this than option 1, but more troubleshooting with dosages due to libido issues)
3. test + primo (never tried yet. Might not be worth it. might be great idk)

 

[buck]

I have run primo along with my TRT testosterone and am at the moment with doses that are equal or less the my T dose. and get more compliments and even my Dr says i must be lifting heavier when he sees me. I find even low doses work. And have heard pro's say the same thing, for what that is worth.

 

[NotHuman]

I have run primo along with my TRT testosterone and am at the moment with doses that are equal or less the my T dose. and get more compliments and even my Dr says i must be lifting heavier when he sees me. I find even low doses work. And have heard pro's say the same thing, for what that is worth.

Glad you shared this. I’m considering adding a small dose of primo (100mg) as an add on to my 150mg TRT dose when I’m not blasting. Estradiol is around 47-50 on TRT alone so I figure it could be useful.

 

[buzzingonaas]

I agree with that. There are other options for a mild injectable cycle. I personally don't want to do 19-nors for multiple reasons.. So basically the options are
1. high test + AI (feel good on this, might go back to it)
2. test + bold + drost (feel same but look better on this than option 1, but more troubleshooting with dosages due to libido issues)
3. test + primo (never tried yet. Might not be worth it. might be great idk)

If you have libido issues with boldenone you may have them with primo too (I know I do). 200mg mast takes care of that with primo as well for me though

 

[Sector]

I've found primo to be a bit underwhelming personally. It's great for e2 control but the amount of oil you need to inject (since it comes in max 200mg/ml concentration, but more commonly 100mg/ml) just makes it a pain in the ass (pun intended)

So yeah I just low dose it for e2 control now but if I actually want mass I'd probably just up the test or eq, or if I want cosmetic looks I'd just go with masteron.

I see why people on trt+ enjoy it though, it's very mild on bloodwork, plus the added anti estrogen benefits make it a synergistic stack

 

[sneak007]

If you have libido issues with boldenone you may have them with primo too (I know I do). 200mg mast takes care of that with primo as well for me though

Interesting. I heard the libido issues with EQ are from it raising E1? I take plenty of AI though and the low libido persists with EQ...