Private Sources and Why They Aren't the Answer

[Dr JIM]

Next level of the process I guess. No SCOC which was in place would of not let these member sources operate. So now what's the next step in the evolution I don't line the member source auction stuff either. I do like my established private source that I have been using for over a year now with no complaints. It even has labmax and reviews in the open at first I didn't like but if this is a review board which is where I think the intention is public and private are open for scrutiny here. What to do about outwardly not so incospous .marketing tactics from not so private sources.....I think he heard a mouthful. I am curious to still what goes on behind the scenes in the PM world these days. IDK nobody PMs me offering gear'.

I sent you several PMs V but after the ninth or tenth mailing I realized you were NOT some noob cloaked as a vet, (but the real deal) and shortly thereafter instructed our mailing department to cease all efforts at providing you with the opportunity to try the very best in the west Private AAS Source.

Jim

 

[bickel29]

Next level of the process I guess. No SCOC which was in place would of not let these member sources operate. So now what's the next step in the evolution I don't line the member source auction stuff either. I do like my established private source that I have been using for over a year now with no complaints. It even has labmax and reviews in the open at first I didn't like but if this is a review board which is where I think the intention is public and private are open for scrutiny here. What to do about outwardly not so incospous .marketing tactics from not so private sources.....I think he heard a mouthful. I am curious to still what goes on behind the scenes in the PM world these days. IDK nobody PMs me offering gear'.

I dunno Volt, with all due respect, I don't believe the SCOC would have stopped the private sourcing going on, because many of these private sources were hard at it before, during and after the SCOC.

I think one of the things we need to accept here at Meso is that we will not be able to - hell, we CAN NOT - protect people from themselves. All we can do is make the info available to people, and those that want it, will seek it and utilize it. And those who "know better", and those who aren't going to listen to us anyways, are going to do what they want to do - including using private sources.

 

[Dr JIM]

Maybe even 11/11.

I do believe established sources are less likely to step on the raws. However the chance of getting better than 90% raws from the Chinese is still slim to none. But I think you agree with that too.

And I also agree that IFBB pros will use UGL drugs when a pharm grade option is unavailable.

Hmm 11/11, I'm not sure that's necessarily a good thing bc now some folk will believe we are the SAME PERSON using two different handles!

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

Hmm 11/11, I'm not sure that's necessarily a good thing bc now some folk will believe we are the SAME PERSON using two different handles!

Alright then, you're full of shit on the other two points. You're argument lacks substance, creativity and isn't convincing. A six-year-old could do a better job of making your case.

Is that better?

 

[Dr JIM]

Alright then, you're full of shit on the other two points. You're argument lacks substance, creativity and isn't convincing. A six-year-old could do a better job of making your case.

Is that better?

Well who you shilling for now traitor, and while my argument may lack all of those big words you use to confuse mere mortals I'm a mate whom possesses supernatural instincts, wisdom, and insight, so just remember I was on Meso first and I golf with Millard buddy!

 

[romaleos]

I agree with CBS on most points with exception to the notion that private sources are exempt from scrutiny and review both privately and publicly.

I can only attest to the one private I have ever had experience with, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Last I checked this an I uncensored board. I have seen labs and tests posted about this private lab. In fact the source does not object to a clients' posting their results. So to say that private lab is immune to the "Meso posey" is false.

Also chances are the private src has given you refs of some current customers, ie other club members. With whom you could also share results with in private if you so wish.

Yes it creates an us and them feel here. But I chalk it up to the vetting process. Do we not want members to contribute and pay their dues? Instead of score their gear and disappear. IMHO a "good" private source strengthens the community rather than discrediting the process here by forcing novices to aspire to be WKM/AM in order to be considered for a client spot from a private.

 

[Voltrader]

I think all I was trying to say is it seems in whatever direction this entity called Meso moves there are unintended consequences. I think the general direction as of late has been a positive move towards @Millard Baker 's vision. Nobody is safe from review and more importantly testing. I have seen more blood work out of this place the last 3-4 months them most other sites see in a couple years time. Now you are seeing an increase of blood work across the spectrum of AAS related sites. I liike to think and know this movement was started here. Not only good for reviews it also teaches best practices. @bickel29 please don't think I am advocating bring back the scoc. I like the direction it is a free flowing living entity I am enjoying watching it go better then spending all my time giving the 3rd degree to every fly by night source coming through here to set up shop. Now I can sit back and call BS when I see it probably the only real good thing I have to offer Here. The rest of the time I get to spend hanging out and shooting the Shit with my friends at Meso. Oh yea Millard I think every once in a while you should let the community know about this vision of yours. I think there are a lot of guys here who don't know.

 

[element00]

I dunno Volt, with all due respect, I don't believe the SCOC would have stopped the private sourcing going on, because many of these private sources were hard at it before, during and after the SCOC.

I think one of the things we need to accept here at Meso is that we will not be able to - hell, we CAN NOT - protect people from themselves. All we can do is make the info available to people, and those that want it, will seek it and utilize it. And those who "know better", and those who aren't going to listen to us anyways, are going to do what they want to do - including using private sources.

I agree, but what this seems to have uncovered is there are some here who would like us to believe they are here for the good of the community, whilst their actions support something that is potentially harmful to meso itself. I think we all agree that each of us has the right to purchase wherever, but this practice just doesn't feel right imo

 

[Voltrader]

I agree, but what this seems to have uncovered is there are some here who would like us to believe they are here for the good of the community, whilst their actions support something that is potentially harmful to meso itself. I think we all agree that each of us has the right to purchase wherever, but this practice just doesn't feel right imo

Ha speaking of shooting the Shit. How you been I am not usually lined up with you and your time zone. Big match my friend FA quarter finals and Man U what more can one ask for.

 

[element00]

Ha speaking of shooting the Shit. How you been I am not usually lined up with you and your time zone. Big match my friend FA quarter finals and Man U what more can one ask for.

Yes brother all good here. Been away of late but trying to catch up, a few new facets to this good place.
Ha yeah we've been looking the goods of late. Third place in the PL, only a few points behind city. Thinking if we can get past Man U in the cup we should do well. Some new silver ware wouldn't go astray.
Hope all is good with you and yours

 

[Millard]

There's been a lot of interest in private sources lately, especially from new members who believe private sources have something public sources don't. The belief that private sources produce higher quality products because they have special access to the best Chinese raw steroid powder suppliers is widespread, but unsupported. And the truth is, nothing could be further from the truth.

Excellent critique. And a good follow up to your critique of SCOC.

 

[Docd187123]

How about we all stop using gear which can only further propagate the problems pointed out here and just run N2BM products. They're trenAbol and HCGenerate were so androgenic I grew an extra few hairs on my testicles....

 

[Millard]

I do have some firsthand knowledge of MLB and all the sources that I'm aware of were supplying trainers and players with nothing but pharm grade products. I would assume the NFL and others are using same. Professional trainers are averse to risking the health of $10+ million dollar a year investments by using products of dubious quality.

The most recent high-profile steroids in baseball scandal didn't always involve pharmaceutical AAS. Alex Rodriguez, Ryan Braun and dozens of other MLB players were clients of Anthony Bosch and Biogenesis of America. Bosch/Biogenesis sourced its steroids from a Brazilian national who ran a UGL out of his garage. Admittedly, the players probably thought they were getting pharmaceutical products but were scammed by Bosch.

 

[Millard]

I agree with most of your post CBS, not all of it though.. I would add there are no real private sources on this board and yes, the reason most say they're private or try to come off as such is mostly a marketing ploy. Trying to make you feel like you're in some type of special group and should be grateful, this isn't really the case.. Some don't accept everyone because they are truly concerned about security and some pretend that's why they're "publicly private" and not private.

I'll expand on other points later, glad you brought this up..

You might not consider them "real" private sources.

Yet some have most certainly enjoyed using the designation to avoid accountability and scrutiny of their products.

Others may be too sloppy with security/anonymity to be "real" private sources.

When members refuse to identify or discuss them publicly, then they are, for all intents and purposes, private in the context of the current discussion.

 

[Millard]

In many respects that's correct IMO, but then again bc well established Private Souces are often "responsible" for delivering a quality product to higher end BB, some with a legitimate desire to become Pro's over time these fellas learn what the production entails including some of the less important details such as sterility, contaminants, and why it's best NOT to use GrandMa's cast iron kitchen supplies

They are established because they are good businessmen not because they are private.

I think it is more accurate to say that UGLs, private or public, whose clients include national-level/pro bodybuilders are more concerned with keeping pros as clients so they can use it as a marketing tool to recruit and maintain other clients. Unless the established UGL is testing raws/final products, it's unlikely they're products are any better or worse than any other established UGL.

The Biogenesis example I mentioned earlier notwithstanding, I agree with @CensoredBoardsSuck that elite and professional athletes are much more likely to have private sources for genuine pharmaceutical products.

The fact that pro athletes (not bodybuilders) use private sources means nothing for the average gym rat. They will never have access to these sources. For these athletes, discretion is everything; any moderately-intelligent athlete with a desire to preserve their multi-million dollar contracts wouldn't knowingly use a source that was always supplying to random people on bodybuilding/steroid forums.

 

[Millard]

And those who "know better", and those who aren't going to listen to us anyways, are going to do what they want to do - including using private sources.

I agree with CBS on most points with exception to the notion that private sources are exempt from scrutiny and review both privately and publicly.

Nobody is safe from review and more importantly testing.

I agree, but what this seems to have uncovered is there are some here who would like us to believe they are here for the good of the community, whilst their actions support something that is potentially harmful to meso itself. I think we all agree that each of us has the right to purchase wherever, but this practice just doesn't feel right imo

I don't want anyone to feel defensive because they think we are attacking their decision to use "private sources". There can be good reasons to use them.

The main criticism is against putting private sources on pedestal by promoting the myth that they have superior products than public sources. There are no good reasons to think this. And there may be even stronger reasons to think the opposite.

If you use a private source, I hope you come away from this thread recognizing the following unintended consequences:

(1) The frequency and number of analytical tests conducted and (more importantly) publicly posted will be far less for a private source than a comparably-sized public source. The dissemination of any negative reports will be far less likely to reach the customer base of private sources when compared to public sources.

(2) You are at risk of applying double standard to private sources (problems are discussed and resolved privately) than public sources (problems are discussed openly and publicly); this means customers of private sources are less likely to hear of any problems that arise.

(3) Revealing details about a private source without permission is a big no-no. Those who violated this rule may be considered similarly as a "snitch". And no one wants to gain that reputation.

(4) If analytical tests, lab max, blood results are publicly posted, they are usually done with permission. This is why you will usually see private source testing only if the results are positive.

All of these factors may results in the appearance of superior products by private sources. But don't be misled.

It is not the decision to use private sources that is the problem. It is the tendency to fall for (and promote ) the myth of superior products by a private source.

Analytical testing is the most important factor determining product quality. Not private vs. public.

 

[heady muscle]

the players probably thought they were getting pharmaceutical products but were scammed by Bosch.

Is scammed the right word here Millard. The product administered by Balco/Bosch/P. Arnold worked for the athletes, right? If they were not told it was pharma and thought they were getting pharma, then I see your point. But these guys got the results they wanted (including big contracts) and if they found out it was not pharma, I am sure they didn't care, IMHO.

 

[heady muscle]

GREAT POST CBS!

Desperate intent always leads the lamb to slaughter.

Signed Former VIP!

 

[Millard]

Is scammed the right word here Millard. The product administered by Balco/Bosch/P. Arnold worked for the athletes, right? If they were not told it was pharma and thought they were getting pharma, then I see your point. But these guys got the results they wanted (including big contracts) and if they found out it was not pharma, I am sure they didn't care, IMHO.

I am only talking about Bosch/Biogenesis. NOT BALCO/Conte/Patrick Arnold.

You could also argue that these athletes - clients of Bosch/Biogenesis - lost tens of millions of dollars due to the carelessness and sloppiness of the Biogenesis operation.

Bosch and Biogenesis were a disaster waiting to happen. Impersonating a medical doctor, selling UGL steroids to the average Joe who came into the clinic off the streets, bragging to everyone about his MLB connections - Bosch gave no regard for the discretion/confidentiality that any highly-paid athlete should demand.

If you work with professional athletes/celebrities, discretion is rule number one.

I am shocked these athletes worked with him unless they were totally fooled by him.

 

[heady muscle]

Good point Millard.