Rep Ranges and Science

[blastncruiser]

I also do higher reps without any issues . I know guys benching way more than me yet I look better than them /am bigger than them lol.

I mean iv always lifted heavy but my new apartment has a gym so it's extremely convenient but the dumbbells only go to 65 pounds.
SSo it forced me to train lighter .
And I still am the same size if not a little bigger on a cruise dose . No need for me to go to a real gym if I'm maintaining fine on a cruise with my free apartment gym with lots of beautiful woman as eye candy on the treadmill facing me as I workout .

Maintaining fine with higher reps lighter weight on cruise dosage. (15-25 rep range )

I mean my gym has a barbell but I only do 225lbs for ,8-12 reps and 1 minute rest between sets followed by 20ish reps with 65lb dumbbell incline .. (used to do 115lb dumbbell each hand on include for 5-7 reps with few minutes rest between sets )

Plus I live in a luxury apartment so the woman already know if I'm working out there I'm not some broke gym rat working as a bouncer . I have my reasons but for purpose of this thread I won't get offtopic

 

[laclark89]

All is good, laclark89. Everybody is entitled to an opinion, including me and you, both.

Cool like wise, and like I said i respect your experience and opinion. And i apologize. I need too learn to chill and think more before I speak out of my ass. I blame the test an decca I’m on lol.

We do have more than 1 way to skin a cat so to speak, and I admit ur a better of a bb than me at least for the moment, and have More time to research than me, so I have to respect it, and appreciate the effort.

I just don’t care for nippard and Isratel personally, if anyone else does that’s cool go for it, they are much smarter and successful than me.

But honestly man to man, do u think nippard is not on atleast trt + that he will never admit too enlesss a clinic payed him to say it?

1 thing I like about Mike is he talks or admits gear use. That’s respectable for sure.

 

[laclark89]

I also do higher reps without any issues . I know guys benching way more than me yet I look better than them /am bigger than them lol.

I mean iv always lifted heavy but my new apartment has a gym so it's extremely convenient but the dumbbells only go to 65 pounds.
SSo it forced me to train lighter .
And I still am the same size if not a little bigger on a cruise dose . No need for me to go to a real gym if I'm maintaining fine on a cruise with my free apartment gym with lots of beautiful woman as eye candy on the treadmill facing me as I workout .

Maintaining fine with higher reps lighter weight on cruise dosage. (15-25 rep range )

I mean my gym has a barbell but I only do 225lbs for ,8-12 reps and 1 minute rest between sets followed by 20ish reps with 65lb dumbbell incline .. (used to do 115lb dumbbell each hand on include for 5-7 reps with few minutes rest between sets )

Plus I live in a luxury apartment so the woman already know if I'm working out there I'm not some broke gym rat working as a bouncer . I have my reasons but for purpose of this thread I won't get offtopic

Honestly the most I’ve ever done is 100 dumbells for 10. If your that fancy and luxurious they have magnets you can put on them to add a little weight.

The last thing that I go into a gym for is eye candy I get that at home. I like zero distractions.

 

[malfeasance]

Cool like wise, and like I said i respect your experience and opinion. And i apologize. I need too learn to chill and think more before I speak out of my ass. I blame the test an decca I’m on lol.

We do have more than 1 way to skin a cat so to speak, and I admit ur a better of a bb than me at least for the moment, and have More time to research than me, so I have to respect it, and appreciate the effort.

I just don’t care for nippard and Isratel personally, if anyone else does that’s cool go for it, they are much smarter and successful than me.

But honestly man to man, do u think nippard is not on atleast trt + that he will never admit too enlesss a clinic payed him to say it?

1 thing I like about Mike is he talks or admits gear use. That’s respectable for sure.

Just FYI, this is not about Mike Israetel, and Nippard appears nowhere in the video.

It is about the studies, and the guy talking has done some of the studies himself and published them and is discussing what the studies seem to show and even some deficiencies in the studies. He also talks about what researchers do not know yet because it has not been studied, as well as strengths and weaknesses of some of the studies.

This is not like one of Israetel's normal videos.

I am sorry that the YouTube personality, or social media personalities in general, got in the way of the information, but this one is well worth watching just to hear the researcher talking about what the studies show and do not show.

No, the researcher is not a bodybuilder.

OOPS. UPDATE. I take that back. I guess Brad Schoenfeld was a bodybuilder at one point in time in his life. Natural. That has nothing to do with whether his research is any good, however. He has a PhD and he concentrates on muscle building and fat loss research. His PhD is actually in muscle building, the focus of his dissertation.

Research Gate shows 428 publications by him.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brad-Schoenfeld

Maybe he is wrong. I don't know. But please don't refuse to hear him out just because he appears on Israetel's channel, and you hate Israetel. Mike Israetel is acting simply as an interviewer for this video. No 6th grade sexual innuendo joking or anything like that.

This is a chance to hear a guy who has hundreds of published papers on this subject discuss the research at length. Israetel does not talk much except to ask questions or prompt Schoenfeld to elaborate.

It is difficult to say he is wrong if you don't even know what he is saying . . .

 

[malfeasance]

It is interesting enough just to hear a guy who has devoted his life to studying muscle hypertrophy say that nothing about the studies "is unequivocal proof" of anything and those claiming so do not understand what they are reading.

 

[malfeasance]

"The subjects doing 25 to 35, half of them puked . . ." Well, there is a significant result.

 

[Liter O' Test]

I just dont think the muscle turns on as much with higher reps, like the muscle doesn't need to use all the fibers, the fibers don't need to be recruited.

 

[rokkrul3r]

I just dont think the muscle turns on as much with higher reps, like the muscle doesn't need to use all the fibers, the fibers don't need to be recruited.

high reps aka pump work is definitely a bias of enhanced people, according to Broderick Chavez it might be the best way to promote growth when you have an unnaturally high amount of androgens running through your bloodstream

since metabolic stress is not needed to promote hormone production simply increasing blood flow on the target muscles would be the more optimal choice

however Broderick also emphasizes that the microtear hypothesis might be bunk and mechanical tension on the fibers is what drives hypertrophy instead, giving a point to lower reps

in the end the optimal approach is just to work in all rep ranges, whether in the same workout or through periodization is a matter of preference

 

[egruberman]

I just dont think the muscle turns on as much with higher reps, like the muscle doesn't need to use all the fibers, the fibers don't ne

During higher rep sets, muscle fibers will fatigue, and as they do, more will be recruited. If the set is taken close to failure, the greater the likelihood that most of the muscle fibers have experienced tension.

 

[AlexDavis43]

But honestly man to man, do u think nippard is not on atleast trt + that he will never admit too enlesss a clinic payed him to say it?

Wouldn't be surprised if Jeff Nippard, Jesse James West, & Will Tennyson all dabbled. But natty is their business model.

 

[egruberman]

Wouldn't be surprised if Jeff Nippard, Jesse James West, & Will Tennyson all dabbled. But natty is their business model.

I'd be surprised if Nippard was on anything, primarily because of feelz. I just don't get a sense that he would falsely claim to be natty. His physique isn't that great, it could definitely be achieved natty, he's competed in tested events, and presently is doing a year long case study on himself that he plans to publish in which he is attempting to get optimal natural gains.

 

[laclark89]

It is interesting enough just to hear a guy who has devoted his life to studying muscle hypertrophy say that nothing about the studies "is unequivocal proof" of anything and those claiming so do not understand what they are reading.

I watched it out of pure curiosity, biggest waste of 18min I’ve ever spent in my life that I’ll never get back. Any gym bro can figure all that out in 5+ years actually training.

lol not interesting enough, it was so vague and full of of many uncertainty.

I can give a 5 paragraph deep dive why it was so shity if you would like?

But like u said we are both entitled to our own opinions.

 

[iris]

can give a 5 paragraph deep dive why it was so shity if you would like

Please, I would like to hear your thoughts, when you have some time to write.
Thank you

 

[laclark89]

Please, I would like to hear your thoughts, when you have some time to write.
Thank you

I’ll put more time into and do that, if u watch the video and tell me 1 beneficial thing u actually Learned that u already didn’t know or have a good idea of.

 

[iris]

I’ll put more time into and do that, if u watch the video and tell me 1 beneficial thing u actually Learned that u already didn’t know or have a good idea of.

Well, I suppose it's about those ideas about reps for strength, reps for hypertrophy being quite set, in people's mind and things actually being a lot more felxible/fluid with regards to what works.
I thought tut was for set, not for session, which is what he says.
I am not sure what your expectations were.

But I think that, in the end, it all boils down to what feels right and works for one, what can be sustainable and effective for you and the type of training you like.
Many ways to skin a cat, as you said earlier.
You brought the example of calisthenics, which I know you have discussed some time ago with a gentleman who did not see eye to eye with you.

I always wanted to reply to that, but wasn't sure you wanted that thread to be bumped. It finished with you writing, iirc.

If you wanted the wheel to be reinvented with this video, I imagine one would be disappointed.
It was more a matter of "refining the wheel".

 

[malfeasance]

I watched it out of pure curiosity, biggest waste of 18min I’ve ever spent in my life that I’ll never get back. Any gym bro can figure all that out in 5+ years actually training.

Hey, thanks for at least taking the time to watch it. Sorry it was a waste of time for you.

I disagree with the second quoted sentence. There are two threads running right now on this forum with "gym bros" mostly saying the precise opposite of what this guy is saying, so actual real world experience listening to the gym bros here seems to be nearly 100% did not "figure all that out" at all.

 

[Liter O' Test]

i think gear makes all the studies in invalid

i think gear makes you able to push harder with heavier weight so you are maximizing your output with heavier weights more , natural people just don't have the RPMs for it, like a smaller power band, so they might as well do more with less weight because the difference is negligible.

but people on gear can make use of the gear more going heavy and tapping into the power that gear allows.

all those pros that claim they do high reps are just genetic freaks that maximized their strength potential already and might as well do more reps.

all the people that grow on high reps from like calithestics and prison workouts are people with already good genetics for muscle building.

i tried to do arms at 12-15 reps yesterday and i just felt like it was pointless because it was so light. maybe its a psychological thing.

It just feels like my muscle is drained more, than it is that I'm not strong enough

 

[iris]

i think gear makes all the studies in invalid

i tried to do arms at 12-15 reps yesterday and i just felt like it was pointless because it was so light. maybe its a psychological thing.

Maybe you have a point about the anabolics and how they affect all this.
Still, I think to a general extent, the principles they are talking about are applicable.

If you make it sufficiently heavy, those 12-15 reps can feel really horrible.
I am sure I don't need to tell you that.
Maybe have another go.
Obvs you are not getting towards the end of the set and it still feels easy, right?

 

[malfeasance]

If you look at his papers, his studies are not exclusively natural lifters. Some of them include lifters doing steroids.

I only throw this in because folks are making a lot of assumptions about his studies - he seems to have studied a wide range of issues relating to muscle growth.

He was also pretty straightforward about the limitations of the studies, that is, the limits of what the studies so far can tell us.

They are not all BS.

I'm glad somebody is out there looking at this stuff.

 

[Grey Spartan]

i think gear makes all the studies in invalid

i think gear makes you able to push harder with heavier weight so you are maximizing your output with heavier weights more , natural people just don't have the RPMs for it, like a smaller power band, so they might as well do more with less weight because the difference is negligible.

but people on gear can make use of the gear more going heavy and tapping into the power that gear allows.

all those pros that claim they do high reps are just genetic freaks that maximized their strength potential already and might as well do more reps.

all the people that grow on high reps from like calithestics and prison workouts are people with already good genetics for muscle building.

i tried to do arms at 12-15 reps yesterday and i just felt like it was pointless because it was so light. maybe its a psychological thing.

It just feels like my muscle is drained more, than it is that I'm not strong enough

I have switched to more sets and reps and find it works extremely well. The way I think of it is, as more muscle fibers get "tired" the ones that don't will work harder. So by going higher reps, I tire out one set of fibers, and by doing more reps the ones that "compensate" get tired. The net result is more total muscle gets worked. The thing I have found is with the increased volume you reach total body fatigue within a few months and need a "deload" week. And obviously I'm on gear, I utilize it to work more days (6 days a week). I could be totally wrong on what is taking place in the muscle but the results have been awesome.