Sending AAS samples to independent, accredited laboratory in Europe

[Millard]

Would you be willing to submit an unopened sample to an independent and accredited laboratory in a Western European country for quantitative analysis? (For example, the laboratory would tell you how many milligrams per milliliter in a vial of injectable Primobolan Depot in an official, verifiable lab report.)

 

[whwlives]

Surely. Can they also do quantitative/qualitative on RAWS?

It's nice to know that your sample is X% of the target substance, but what is the rest of the (100 - X%)?

 

[devildog93]

Damn, so how would this work when testing raws? Doesn't look like this would work for me. I know the raw sources send out 50mg samples, but i'm 100% sure those are set aside assuming they will be tested.

 

[Millard]

Surely. Can they also do quantitative/qualitative on RAWS?

It's nice to know that your sample is X% of the target substance, but what is the rest of the (100 - X%)?

Certainly, quantitative/qualitative on raw steroid powder can be accomplished. I think a credible harm reduction initiative should focus on the end-products most likely to be used by consumers. I don't think resources should be wasted helping UGLs obtain quality powder and/or using the initiative to help manufacture AAS. (Granted, some individuals purchase powder for personal homebrew purposes but generally the primary purchasers of powders are UGLs.)

The testing can look for the suspected AAS only or it can also seek to determine all the components of the sample, test microbiological quality and tests for heavy metals. It's just a matter of how much money we want to pay for testing.

 

[devildog93]

Millard i wasn't talking about testing raws for suppliers, at all. I'm at the point where UGLs are about off my radar entirely. When the scammers outnumber the reliable ones 10 to 1 it's probably time to move on instead of trying to put out the fire with a glass of water.

If it turns out raws are in the same shape then so be it. So basically if we come up with a way to do this those of us using raws would brew and send in a vial? Would that be doable?

 

[Millard]

Millard i wasn't talking about testing raws for suppliers, at all. I'm at the point where UGLs are about off my radar entirely. When the scammers outnumber the reliable ones 10 to 1 it's probably time to move on instead of trying to put out the fire with a glass of water.

If it turns out raws are in the same shape then so be it. So basically if we come up with a way to do this those of us using raws would brew and send in a vial? Would that be doable?

I know what you're saying. But testing raws is asking an entirely different question that I'm not sure would be advisable. (By this, I mean it is not something MESO should get involved with.)

Testing raws: What is the quality of the sample that I'm going to use to manufacture AAS products for personal use and/or commercial resale?

Testing end-products (injectables and tablets): What is the quality of the sample that I am going to inject or consume?

The latter question is clearly focused on harm reduction.

The former question is clearly focused on the manufacture of AAS.

 

[whwlives]

I think we end up with a chicken or egg situation where the UGL hasn't done testing on their RAWS, the UGL is run by people with little to no scientific background (hey, licit or illicit, you are still manufacturing PHARMACEUTICALS), and/or profit motive exceeds quality control. INDEPENDENT testing on vials is critical. INDEPENDENT testing on raws seems just as critical. It fixes both the problem and the blame at the same time.

Millard i wasn't talking about testing raws for suppliers, at all. I'm at the point where UGLs are about off my radar entirely. When the scammers outnumber the reliable ones 10 to 1 it's probably time to move on instead of trying to put out the fire with a glass of water.

If it turns out raws are in the same shape then so be it. So basically if we come up with a way to do this those of us using raws would brew and send in a vial? Would that be doable?

 

[flenser]

I would pay more for knowing all the major components, but I do my own bacteria testing.

It may be possible to remove some of the unwanted fillers and base hormone from small powder samples using affordable methods. I wouldn't have a problem brewing it and putting it in a vial for mass spec.

 

[devildog93]

I hear you Millard. I think Millard is saying he doesn't want to mess with raws due to it not being just harm reduction, but might be looked at as endorsing production. Not a problem at all.

The only problem i have with purchasing and testing from a ugl is that i no longer trust any of them to even go that far.

 

[Millard]

I think we end up with a chicken or egg situation where the UGL hasn't done testing on their RAWS, the UGL is run by people with little to no scientific background (hey, licit or illicit, you are still manufacturing PHARMACEUTICALS), and/or profit motive exceeds quality control. INDEPENDENT testing on vials is critical. INDEPENDENT testing on raws seems just as critical. It fixes both the problem and the blame at the same time.

I agree completely. Testing raws is crucial - crucial for UGLs to perform.

MESO is an advocate for protecting the consumer. Testing powders in this scenario would also help consumers but only because it helps UGLs peform quality control. A consumer/harm reduction advocate does not and should not play any role in helping a UGL run its business properly.

Blame always rests on the UGL that brands the product. IF their powder supplier screwed them and the UGL failed to perform quality control testing, the UGL is 100% at fault. They are always responsible for the products they sell to the consumer.

 

[flenser]

I would pay more for knowing all the major components, but I do my own bacteria testing.

It may be possible to remove some of the unwanted fillers and base hormone from small powder samples using affordable methods. I wouldn't have a problem brewing it and putting it in a vial for mass spec.

I suppose providing enough information on the contents to know what solvents to use before centrifuging, evaporating, etc. would go a little beyond harm reduction. It WOULD be the only way to remove any heavy metals, though.

I wouldn't pay as much, if the results only gave me enough information to know if it were safe to use. But I would still be interested.

 

[Voltrader]

I am very open to this.

 

[mike0507]

It's not the cost that would deter me from submitting a sample. It's the accessibility and the T/A time. I don't mind paying for it, but I want to be able to drop it in the mail and have access to the results quickly. I believe this is the only real way to keep sources in check. This whole I'll send a few samples to trusted members bullshit is getting old. The same goes for the Labmax that doesn't give any indication of dosage or purity. Give me a legit means of testing the products I receive in a timely manner and I'll gladly participate. I'll even be willing to send unopened product.

 

[BigHuu]

If I have the chance, i personally, will test every product i'll put in my body.

Thanks Millard Baker and all the guys from the Meso who are taking the initiative to make this big step in the good of the community.

 

[incrediblebulk]

I'm in as long as the cost is within reason.

 

[Juice n Goose]

When I have to send in a raw(only done that twice) or a tablet,the lab requires 2grams for solids,powders or extracts(and charges 17 dollars more,I should add) they add a "standard to the powder,crush the solid(if necessary,same with extracts) and then they add hexane to the sample to render it a liquid) then it goes into the chromatograph through the same robotized injection port as the liquid samples) they need 2ml of sample if in liquid form but its cheaper as a liquid! it only takes 10 microliters to sample but the rest is necessary if another series of testing is required or if some of the sample is tainted.
I used their service of providing a separate chromatograph for testing for adulterants. Good thing as they found two things that I sure wouldnt've wanted to inject..Haloperidol(a powerful antipsychotic maybe I SHOULD HAVE USED IT HAHA!) and believe it or not..they found COCAINE Hydrochloride. I was told they often find cocaine and often female hormones in UGL AAS samples. The cocaine causes people to feel as if the sample is giving them a boost in their workouts and the female hormones can cause water retention(not unlike d-bol and/or Test. Propionate) I wondered how the UGL could profit from spending the money to put cocaine in their vials but it was explained that just a few parts per million was enough to make you feel "pumped"

Man what a bunch of d-bags! I was thinking about the potential for harm with cocaine as an adulterant because They said one sample contained oil only and a few ppm of cocaine and the donor had suffered an atrial fibrillation and subsequent brain damage because she stopped breathing for several minutes.

My sample that had cocaine in it was tren-a. I can kind of see why they would do this as it can make you feel pumped up and unable to sleep and maybe sweaty like tren and It can also stimulate the CNS making you think at least SOMETHING WAS HAPPENING as a result of using the gear!

Im with @devil Dog for the large part in regard to UGL's being so corrupt(putting coke,female hormones and I was told by the lab sometimes even Cialis or Viagra) I cant picture using UGL gear ever again!!! Yes and at the lab I use, the total cost per sample is 97$ when also tested for common adulterants!

Sorry about the very long post. Ive talked to over 25 labs(VERY time consuming and haven't found any that are willing to take a large number of samples out of fear of their losing their FDA,DEA,DHS certification status)Their B.S. was starting to sound like many UGL's. So its great that yall seem to have found a lab in Europe willing to test for you!! WAY TO GO..I was REALLY starting to feel underappreciated searching unsuccessfully for labs. Not sleeping for days up so darn late because of the time difference in Asian labs and many European labs. I intend to keep searching(1/3 through a list of ASIAN labs, often foreign labs, like the French Institute of Science, no one spoke English and I don't speak French!!! What a disaster,so Im really glad you VERY long time VETS have connections around The Pond!!!) Sorry I haven't been able to come through for the community after 2 weeks!!! I feel like SH*T but believe me when I say..I try several labs world-wide M_F EVERY WORK DAY!! around the clock for foreign labs!! Have a good day and "Good Hunting,Men!"

Goose

 

[Millard]

It's not the cost that would deter me from submitting a sample. It's the accessibility and the T/A time. I don't mind paying for it, but I want to be able to drop it in the mail and have access to the results quickly. I believe this is the only real way to keep sources in check. This whole I'll send a few samples to trusted members bullshit is getting old. The same goes for the Labmax that doesn't give any indication of dosage or purity. Give me a legit means of testing the products I receive in a timely manner and I'll gladly participate. I'll even be willing to send unopened product.

What is a reasonable turnaround for you?

The time it takes to mail a sample from US to EU would take at least a week.

Considerations affecting the time it takes to analyze include how frequently the lab analyzes samples? Is it done upon receipt? Are samples analzyed in batches once every two weeks? How frequently batches are analyzed has a significant bearing on cost; it will be much more costly to analzye upon receipt than as part of a batch.

Basically, the more we're willing to pay, the quicker we'll have the results.

 

[incrediblebulk]

I don't mind paying either it just needs to be within reason.

 

[Millard]

To all the members reading this thread, please vote in the poll even if you would not be able to submit a sample or don't want to pay.

 

[flenser]

If it ensured testing occurred randomly and anonymously, I would also be open to contributing to tests of aas from other members. I'm sure at this point every scammer on Meso knows my various addresses.