T4+HGH off test cycle, advisable?

NeoNepomuk

New Member
Hi guys,

I'm now on T3 and Test/Mast/Tren, and had amazing results. I'll discontinue T3 and end my cutting cycle and will then be off.

I also want to start a long HGH course now (16-32 weeks, first time), and read that taking T4 is absulutely advisable. My question is: how much T4 should I take if i'm OFF cycle without risking my muscles to also get wasted? Taking more than 50/75mcg of T3 starts to eat into my muscles when off cycle.
 
Hell yes do it up.. Eat those carbs my man.

mands

for what I read T4 it's not needed because even if HGH decrease it at first, then the body autocompensate for it and bring back it at normal level so there is no need of supplying T4.

I believe dr jim had explained it.

do you agree?
 
for what I read T4 it's not needed because even if HGH decrease it at first, then the body autocompensate for it and bring back it at normal level so there is no need of supplying T4.

I believe dr jim had explained it.

do you agree?
Okay here it is.. when you are running Gh and then add t4 you actually increase the conversion of t4 to T3 . This will give you a greater effect. So, basically adding t4 to a Gh cycle you are making the GH more effective.

mands
 
Okay here it is.. when you are running Gh and then add t4 you actually increase the conversion of t4 to T3 . This will give you a greater effect. So, basically adding t4 to a Gh cycle you are making the GH more effective.

mands
More effective in what sense? Fat loss? I assume not hypertrophy?
 
More effective in what sense? Fat loss? I assume not hypertrophy?
t4 converted to t3 is needed for the gh because the process will allow more of an anabolic effect when converted. Just adding t3 will not be as effective and actually can inhibit the effects of GH. The conversion has something to do with mediator enzymes that help with the synergy.

I read something years ago on this and have recently become more interested because I have actually been running GH.

If you don't run t4 with your GH you are wasting potential.

mands
 
t4 converted to t3 is needed for the gh because the process will allow more of an anabolic effect when converted. Just adding t3 will not be as effective and actually can inhibit the effects of GH. The conversion has something to do with mediator enzymes that help with the synergy.

mands
Interesting, thank you!
 
t4 converted to t3 is needed for the gh because the process will allow more of an anabolic effect when converted. Just adding t3 will not be as effective and actually can inhibit the effects of GH. The conversion has something to do with mediator enzymes that help with the synergy.

I read something years ago on this and have recently become more interested because I have actually been running GH.

If you don't run t4 with your GH you are wasting potential.

mands

That's how I understand it as well..

Here's the link to BR's article:

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/thyroid-hormone-growth-hormone/
 
What's the possible side effect of using T4? I'm very scared of using tyroids meds, if you fuck up it can get ugly.


t4 converted to t3 is needed for the gh because the process will allow more of an anabolic effect when converted. Just adding t3 will not be as effective and actually can inhibit the effects of GH. The conversion has something to do with mediator enzymes that help with the synergy.

I read something years ago on this and have recently become more interested because I have actually been running GH.

If you don't run t4 with your GH you are wasting potential.

mands
 
Here you go!

Synthetic T4 Supplements for Hypothyroidism
The Standard in Hypothyroid Treatment
Written by Eren Berber MD | Reviewed by Robert M. Sargis MD, PhD

51
Synthetic forms of the thyroid hormone T4 are generally called levothyroxine, and they are considered the standard treatment for hypothyroidism. Though they are man-made, synthetic T4 hormones are exactly the same as the T4 that is produced and released by thethyroid gland.

Types of T4 Supplements
There are currently six FDA-approved brands of synthetic T4 supplements available:

  • Levo-T
  • Levothyroxine Sodium
  • Levoxyl
  • Novothyrox
  • Synthroid
  • UNITHROID
Synthroid is the most commonly-prescribed brand of T4 for hypothyroidism. It delivers a steady, prolonged dose of T4. There is also a generic form of T4 available, which is more cost-effective than brand-name medications. Fortunately, it's also equally as effective.

All the approved brands of T4 are bioequivalent. In other words, there is no significant difference in their composition. However, that does notmean that these brands are exactly the same. The bioavailability of a given brand at a given time after ingestion might be different. That's why much of the endocrinology community—the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists, The Endocrine Society, and the American Thyroid Association—believe that once you start with a brand, you should stick with it. If you change brands during treatment, you risk altering your hormone levels. That means your symptoms may return and you may need to adjust your dose. Changing brands may change the dose slightly, which in turn may change how you feel.

Determining Dosage
Finding your ideal T4 dosage is essential. The right dosage keeps hypothyroidism from interfering with your life. The wrong dosage can make it an even bigger problem than it was before you sought treatment.

Getting the right dosage is important, but don't expect the dosage you start out with to be the dosage that you eventually keep. Doctors often use weight as a guideline for determining dosage. Some use the formula of 1.6 micrograms of T4 for every 1 kilogram (or 2.2 pounds) of weight for a starting dosage. Others prefer a more conservative approach, starting patients at a very low dose (perhaps as low as 25 micrograms). Note the 1.6 micrograms is a full replacement dose. This means that if part of your thyroid still functions properly, you won't need this full dose because you will continue to make some of their own T4, in addition to the dose in the pill.

Because it's common for dosages to change at the start of treatment, your doctor will likely monitor your thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) levels after two or three months (though some doctors check as soon as four weeks) from your first day of treatment. And since hormone replacement therapy is usually a lifelong treatment, you should get checked every year to make sure you're taking the right dose if you're on a stable dose. You should communicate with your doctor more frequently if your dose is being adjusted.

Doctors often err on the side of caution when prescribing starting dosages of T4 for a variety of reasons. For one, starting at a low dose and moving up lets your heart get used to the increased metabolism. Also, they don't want to induce hyperthyroidism—a condition caused by high levels of thyroid hormones. You can learn more about the symptoms of over-treatment below.

Over-treatment Symptoms
Even with a moderate dose of T4, some patients are susceptible to over-treatment symptoms. Elderly patients with weaker hearts and people with heart arrhythmias (irregular heartbeat) are especially sensitive to thyroid hormone. Generally, doctors like to start a slightly lower dose in these patients, in order not to cause or worsen irregular heart beats.

Below are some of the symptoms of over-treatment:

  • Feeling hot and sweating more than normal
  • Shaking (hand tremors)
  • Heart palpitations
  • Having difficulty falling asleep
  • Having mood swings
  • Experiencing mental "fuzziness" (forgetfulness, loss of concentration)
  • Experiencing muscle weakness
  • Losing weight
  • Menstrual irregularities
If you experience any of these symptoms throughout the duration of your hypothyroidism treatment, talk to your doctor immediately. He or she will first check your blood tests, before deciding on a dose.

Taking Other Medications with T4
Because T4 is ingested, it must be absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract into the bloodstream. The medications and supplements listed below shouldn't be taken at the same time as T4, as they can interfere with your body's ability to absorb the hormone:

  • Aluminum hydroxide (found in some antacids)
  • Calcium supplements
  • Colestid and cholestyramine (absorbs bile)
  • Iron supplements
  • Magnesium supplements
  • Raloxifene (an osteoporosis treatment)
  • Sucralfate (for ulcers)
  • Soy-based foods
If you need to take any of the medications above, you should take them three or four hours before or after you take T4. Your doctor will recommend the best time to take T4 (common times to take the medication are first thing in the morning or right before you go to bed, when you have an empty stomach).

Within two weeks of taking synthetic T4 hormone supplements, you'll begin to feel the effects of the treatment. When taken as directed—and with the right dose—you'll find that T4 hormone replacement therapy can effectively manage your hypothyroid symptoms.

mands
 
t4 converted to t3 is needed for the gh because the process will allow more of an anabolic effect when converted. Just adding t3 will not be as effective and actually can inhibit the effects of GH. The conversion has something to do with mediator enzymes that help with the synergy.

I read something years ago on this and have recently become more interested because I have actually been running GH.

If you don't run t4 with your GH you are wasting potential.

mands

Here you go!

Synthetic T4 Supplements for Hypothyroidism
The Standard in Hypothyroid Treatment
Written by Eren Berber MD | Reviewed by Robert M. Sargis MD, PhD

51
Synthetic forms of the thyroid hormone T4 are generally called levothyroxine, and they are considered the standard treatment for hypothyroidism. Though they are man-made, synthetic T4 hormones are exactly the same as the T4 that is produced and released by thethyroid gland.

Types of T4 Supplements
There are currently six FDA-approved brands of synthetic T4 supplements available:

  • Levo-T
  • Levothyroxine Sodium
  • Levoxyl
  • Novothyrox
  • Synthroid
  • UNITHROID
Synthroid is the most commonly-prescribed brand of T4 for hypothyroidism. It delivers a steady, prolonged dose of T4. There is also a generic form of T4 available, which is more cost-effective than brand-name medications. Fortunately, it's also equally as effective.

All the approved brands of T4 are bioequivalent. In other words, there is no significant difference in their composition. However, that does notmean that these brands are exactly the same. The bioavailability of a given brand at a given time after ingestion might be different. That's why much of the endocrinology community—the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists, The Endocrine Society, and the American Thyroid Association—believe that once you start with a brand, you should stick with it. If you change brands during treatment, you risk altering your hormone levels. That means your symptoms may return and you may need to adjust your dose. Changing brands may change the dose slightly, which in turn may change how you feel.

Determining Dosage
Finding your ideal T4 dosage is essential. The right dosage keeps hypothyroidism from interfering with your life. The wrong dosage can make it an even bigger problem than it was before you sought treatment.

Getting the right dosage is important, but don't expect the dosage you start out with to be the dosage that you eventually keep. Doctors often use weight as a guideline for determining dosage. Some use the formula of 1.6 micrograms of T4 for every 1 kilogram (or 2.2 pounds) of weight for a starting dosage. Others prefer a more conservative approach, starting patients at a very low dose (perhaps as low as 25 micrograms). Note the 1.6 micrograms is a full replacement dose. This means that if part of your thyroid still functions properly, you won't need this full dose because you will continue to make some of their own T4, in addition to the dose in the pill.

Because it's common for dosages to change at the start of treatment, your doctor will likely monitor your thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) levels after two or three months (though some doctors check as soon as four weeks) from your first day of treatment. And since hormone replacement therapy is usually a lifelong treatment, you should get checked every year to make sure you're taking the right dose if you're on a stable dose. You should communicate with your doctor more frequently if your dose is being adjusted.

Doctors often err on the side of caution when prescribing starting dosages of T4 for a variety of reasons. For one, starting at a low dose and moving up lets your heart get used to the increased metabolism. Also, they don't want to induce hyperthyroidism—a condition caused by high levels of thyroid hormones. You can learn more about the symptoms of over-treatment below.

Over-treatment Symptoms
Even with a moderate dose of T4, some patients are susceptible to over-treatment symptoms. Elderly patients with weaker hearts and people with heart arrhythmias (irregular heartbeat) are especially sensitive to thyroid hormone. Generally, doctors like to start a slightly lower dose in these patients, in order not to cause or worsen irregular heart beats.

Below are some of the symptoms of over-treatment:

  • Feeling hot and sweating more than normal
  • Shaking (hand tremors)
  • Heart palpitations
  • Having difficulty falling asleep
  • Having mood swings
  • Experiencing mental "fuzziness" (forgetfulness, loss of concentration)
  • Experiencing muscle weakness
  • Losing weight
  • Menstrual irregularities
If you experience any of these symptoms throughout the duration of your hypothyroidism treatment, talk to your doctor immediately. He or she will first check your blood tests, before deciding on a dose.

Taking Other Medications with T4
Because T4 is ingested, it must be absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract into the bloodstream. The medications and supplements listed below shouldn't be taken at the same time as T4, as they can interfere with your body's ability to absorb the hormone:

  • Aluminum hydroxide (found in some antacids)
  • Calcium supplements
  • Colestid and cholestyramine (absorbs bile)
  • Iron supplements
  • Magnesium supplements
  • Raloxifene (an osteoporosis treatment)
  • Sucralfate (for ulcers)
  • Soy-based foods
If you need to take any of the medications above, you should take them three or four hours before or after you take T4. Your doctor will recommend the best time to take T4 (common times to take the medication are first thing in the morning or right before you go to bed, when you have an empty stomach).

Within two weeks of taking synthetic T4 hormone supplements, you'll begin to feel the effects of the treatment. When taken as directed—and with the right dose—you'll find that T4 hormone replacement therapy can effectively manage your hypothyroid symptoms.

mands

This article doesn't support your assertion that there is some magical property of T4 deiodination to T3 that makes that T3 more effective than the T3 you get in tablets. And it say nothing about GH. It's basic patient information on levothyroxine replacement. That's it.
 
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