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temptation and striving for more.... but health should be the main goal in life

Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by foreveryoung, Jul 25, 2012.

  1. InfoFront

    InfoFront Junior Member

    tren-E. But I should also mention I have very low SHBG, so more of the tren will be free, so it probably hits me harder than most.
    For instance, my total testosterone on TRT is mid-range, but free and bioavailable T are well over the top of the range.
    And yeah I was surprised too. I'm pretty insensitive to supplements, drugs, and testosterone, as far as side effects go. Maybe tren just doesn't agree with me well?
     
  2. foreveryoung

    foreveryoung Member

    I am off tren completely now, I found out some very bad things about it in regards to brain cell health, and I really value my brain, so despite the fact that tren's strong androgenic qualities actually gave me strong libido when no level of testosterone was able to, I am forced to drop the tren and just live without it
     
  3. Tyler81

    Tyler81 Member

    Thanks for the update.

    Ultimately you have to weigh the pros and cons of things and i think you made the right decision.
     
  4. D-man08

    D-man08 Junior Member

    Info my numbers reflect yours. I am low SHBG and my free T is always high. Off TRT my T came in at 200 and my free T was in the middle of the range. One lab on TRT had me at 908 TT and free T was double the range. I often wonder if I even need TRT since my free t is within range but TT is low.
     
  5. D-man08

    D-man08 Junior Member

    Thanks for the reply FY. Are the studies based off of short or long term use of tren? I would like to just use the for 10weeks. Primo also. And maybe some var! Lol!
     
  6. toolman

    toolman Member

    Never tried tren even back when I cycled. Anything that was created to grow cattle cannot be safe for human consumption was always my thinking.
     
  7. Tyler81

    Tyler81 Member

    Lol
     
  8. foreveryoung

    foreveryoung Member

    giving the testosterone only TRT a long try and did a bit of dose adjustment to see if it would help which it didn't either way, not all that happy with results, life is good and feel very healthy and strong, but libido pretty far down still, a good dose of viagra if I time it right works great for sex, but otherwise I'm not that into it as I'll usually go soft out of lack of libido halfway through

    my woman even mentions that I'm not horny like I used to be (we met and most of our time I was on tren), and she also wants my ripped abs back too, it is hard not to get thinking about these things... although I do feel healthier on the test, on tren I would sometimes get headaches and feel anxious, but libido was definitely much much stronger and a factor in my life every day when on the tren, with testosterone only it is just not good enough

    I have avoided any AI this time around, because of previous bad experiences that were scary (ligament and bone injuries) and other health fears, but in the past I had had some success with an AI (although dialing it in is extremely difficult, to the point of making it useless if long term reliability is desired, not to mention longterm health risks)... but I admit I have been tempted to take a tiny bit of AI to see what might happen, I feel smoother than I should be and I'm sure estrogens are a bit elevated (although estrogen can be a good thing in the body too)

    if it wasn't for the recent study that said that tren was harmful to the brain, I would be back on it in a second

    not sure what I'm going to do :(

    if it wasn't for sex, the answers would be much easier
     
  9. Tyler81

    Tyler81 Member

    The problem is you set unrealistic expectations. You tried to be superman for her so she thinks your natural state of being is insane abs and insane sex drive. That isnt normal for most men. But you set the bar so high that it was impossible to maintain that.

    I have no idea but for me its all about health and consistency now.

    I dont care about libido as much as I used to. I do use cialis when needed.

    I find T isnt the solution for MENTAL libido ... that i believe is more brain chemistry.

    You might want to consider supplements like mucuna puriens which is dopamergenic, or other supplements that affect the brain. Especially if your T levels are good this may REALLY help.
     
    Sampei likes this.
  10. Tyler81

    Tyler81 Member

    I would focus on brain supps to boost libido instead of hormones.

    If your hormones are optimized which they are now then the answer is in neurochemistry.
     
  11. foreveryoung

    foreveryoung Member

    you are right Tyler, for sure it is a brain chemistry situation... tren obviously being such a strong androgen was able to shift the brain chemistry but there are many bad things about it that it is not a good solution

    I think stuff like mucuna pruriens, and also follows for stuff like caber, is you can't rely on them long term... the brain adjusts, and then coming off you are in worse state..

    thanks for the reply, I know I've kind of screwed up many years ago and now I am faced with imperfect solutions... as we both have said before, we wish we had never touched testosterone in the first place, once you get on the slippery slope things aren't the same
     
  12. Sampei

    Sampei Member AnabolicLab.com Supporter

    can you post the tren study?
     
  13. foreveryoung

    foreveryoung Member

    I'll find it and post later today

    for completeness I should mention that I started injecting my testosterone every 4 days instead of every day and seems that resulted in a libido drop, I am trying to resist the logic in that because I was busy and having to do every day shots stealthily was getting difficult... it wasn't super with every day shots, but it is horrible now with e4d so I can't help but think it is related somehow
     
  14. Tyler81

    Tyler81 Member

    Yeah man. I honestly wish I had never touched it. A few years down the road I realized I have low shbg so my free T (even with low total T) was probably ok. But once you make the choice to go on natural is never quite the same, is it. I think we have both experienced that since we have both come off TRT for extended periods of time.

    I do honestly think that brain chemistry is the key if hormones are optimized. Tren like you say impacts brain chemistry (probably dopamine but not entirely sure) so thats where the libido boost probably came from.

    I agree that mucuna and caber doesnt work long-term. I think the key is finding a few brain supps that work for you and then switching them up.

    Dr M recommends ultra low doses of well-butrin like instead of 150 he recommends 37.5mg because he says that the lower doses impact dopamine but the higher doses used for depression impact norepinepherine which makes people anxious and actually lowers libido.

    I sometimes take an ultra low dose of wellbutrin.

    It seems to impact dopamine for a few days, but then it stops working on dopamine.

    So it can be used once in awhile (maybe once/month) to target dopamine for libido.
     
  15. Tyler81

    Tyler81 Member

    Also I have also tried pharmaceutical stimulant prescribed by a physician but it had a shit ton of side effects. I would NOT recommend this route.

    Other things that have worked for me, personally:

    1. A few drinks (2-3 seems to be my sweet spot)
    I believe a few drinks boosts dopamine so it revvs up my libido... but more than three drinks i dont get any benefit and it dampens libido. This isnt great health wise so i dont really do this anymore.

    2. Caffiene (Coffee, Tea, etc)
    Caffiene works on dopamine so it has a slight boost. Nothing significant tho.

    3. cialis
    I do find cialis not only gives me wood but it makes me hornier as well. It may have an impact on brain chemistry i dont know. I dont know if you use cialis or viagara. But if you use viagara maybe try switching to cialis. Cialis also continues working for upto 72 hours.

    4. Watching porn but not jerking off
    This seems to make me hornier. If I just leave a porn site open and watch it occasionally but dont jerk off. You might try this before seeing your girl. Just watch different porn all day and then go see her. It might help your mental libido.
    This is SPECIFICALLY for mental libido I think.

    5. Abstain from masturbating for a week
    This makes me hornier for sure and I peak around a week ... could try this.

    These are just off the top of my head.
     
  16. Tyler81

    Tyler81 Member

    Libido is SUPER complex and the main reason i went on TRT is because i thought it would be walking around with a boner all day and want to bang every hot girl I see. ... it hasnt worked out like that. lol.

    I know you wanted the 18 year old libido too.

    Unfortunately its tough to play God with mother nature.

    We may never get that 18 year old libido back on a long-term basis.

    I've had it in SPURTS on TRT (had it on the gels for about a year) but not long-term.
     
    Sampei likes this.
  17. Tyler81

    Tyler81 Member

    Go back to what was working. If everyday worked for you then go back to everyday.
     
  18. foreveryoung

    foreveryoung Member

    it was working kind of, not great though, really not good enough, just passable... much better than this latest e4d has been going, I think maybe the larger my injection is my body wants to aromatase it, but who knows, might just be a coincidence and I was going to have a downturn anyways, I haven't been anywhere near how I was on tren (don't get me wrong, being on tren I had lots of issues too, but overall it is the only thing that gave me that strong drive again, and my body wasn't as smooth looking as it is on testosterone)

    getting more and more tempted by the tren again
     
  19. InfoFront

    InfoFront Junior Member

    I've been experimenting with low dose tren too. I find that the libido boost last about 2 weeks then disappears, similar to starting TRT. I believe this is due to dopamine receptor desensitization. Did you have this experience too?
     
  20. foreveryoung

    foreveryoung Member

    in my experience, for me, the important thing is to keep the testosterone dose down, if it gets too high it screws up everything. actually for me the tren libido starts to get better and better after 2 weeks and holds steady, but like I said you can screw everything up by getting doses too high, especially testosterone dose. I find 80mg a week of testosterone is fine, 100mg of test per week can be ok but starting to get a little too high. I'm back on the tren again for a few weeks now and libido is distracting again, on testosterone only at any dose libido was pretty crappy lately. I was doing daily injections before too but due to living arrangements and need to be stealthy I cut back to twice per week injections now, about 45mg test cyp, 20mg tren enth, 10 mg tren ace, 15mg mast prop every 3 or 4 days to make twice a week... that is it, no AI, no hcg, nothing else, and of course viagra every day for 3 weeks per month when my woman is not on her period. the tren dose is quite low, but it still comes with a bit of the tren sides, getting heated up easily and sweating, and probably the worst tren side that many might not be able to tolerate (and always seems worse to me with tren enth as there gets to be no up and down break to your tren levels with enth) is that constant slight bit of tren anxiety that becomes a background theme to your mood, I recognize it and deal with it but it does make life feel a bit more annoying