Trenbolone & Testosterone

[Michael Scally MD]

Trenbolone & Testosterone - Are they equally anabolic? If not, which is more anabolic?

And, if possible, support with links, cites, etc.

During these past years, I have consulted with many individuals cycling these AAS. Also, I am having a conversation with a current researcher actively investigating trenbolone. Before posting their thoughts, I would like to gather other comments. TY

 

[lucabratzi]

https://www.steroid.com/Trenbolone.php

This write up says it receives a score of 500 on both the anabolic and androgenic scale. Where testosterone received a score of 100 on each

 

[SJB78]

When you ask the question equally anabolic do you mean the anabolic/androgenic score as these scores dont necessarily translate into muscle building effects. A good example is proviron which has an anabolic rating of 100 to 150 but as we know its muscle building effects are almost useless.

 

[Wunderpus]

Trenbolone & Testosterone - Are they equally anabolic? If not, which is more anabolic?

And, if possible, support with links, cites, etc.

During these past years, I have consulted with many individuals cycling these AAS. Also, I am having a conversation with a current researcher actively investigating trenbolone. Before posting their thoughts, I would like to gather other comments. TY

Anecdotally, I've actually found testosterone to be more anabolic. Trenbolone limits my caloric intake severely, mainly due to acid reflux and appetite suppression. Tren, for me, has proven to be a better anti-catabolic and cutter than a builder. I always hear the tren is "insanely anabolic" but, why then, do most competitive athletes use it for their cuts?

Curious to hear/see other reports or studies, as mine are just broscience.

 

[mands]

• Abstract

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Environ Qual Saf Suppl. 1976;(5):253-64.
Pharmacological and endocrinological studies on anabolic agents.
Neumann F.
Abstract
When used in connection with animal production the term "anabolic agents" covers a wide range. Ther steroidal male and female sex hormones are included in this list, as are the nonsteroidal estrogens. For the clinician and for the endocrinologist, anabolics are only steroids chemically related to testosterone and 19-nortestosterone. Estrogens, though possessing anabolic properties, too, do not belong to this class. This paper will deal with anabolic agents in in the stricter sense of which mainly trenbolone acetate combined with hexestrol has been recommended for bull and heifer fattening. To consider possible consumer injury from ingestion of meat from anabolic agent treated animals, it is necessary to know the pharmacological properties of the agents, the doses producing certain effects or might produce, and the levels of residues in the meat. Trenbolone acetate will be compared with the following anabolic agents: methenolone acetate, methandrostenolone, nandrone, androstanazole, and 19-nortestosterone. The activity spectrum of trenbolone acetate is similar to that of 19-nortestosterone or those anabolics that are derived from 19-nortestosterone. The compound has about three times stronger androgenic effect than testosterone propionate. Its index of dissociation between anabolic/androgenic activity is 2--3. This index is 3--10 for the other anabolic agents. As regards the virilizing potency, trenbolone acetate is also on the top of the list. It seems that androgenicity and degree of virilization run paralle. The antigonadotropic activity (inhibition of ovulation and testicular growth) of trenbolone acetate exceeds that of testosterone propionate by the factor 3. The compound is not estrogenic and seemingly not or only weakly progestationally active. In principle, the androgenic activity (symptoms of virilization) as well as the antigonadotropic effect (disturbances of the menstrual cycle in women, inhibition of spermiogenesis in men) of trenbolone acetate might be noted. This risk, however, can be excluded by mere calculation. In rats, 0.1 mg/kg trenbolone acetate have an antigonadotropic effect. This corresponds to a daily dose of 5--7 mg in humans. By the same extrapolation, a daily human dose of 100 mg can be calculated for androgenic activity. Such factors of conversion are, of course, not precise because rats are much less sensitive to androgens and anabolics than humans. Thus, testosterone propionate is active only in daily doses of 10--20 mg. If in humans trenbolone acetate also has three times the activity of testosterone propionate, effects in man had to be counted with not less than a daily intake of 3--5 mg trenbolone acetate. The dose which is recommended for livestock fattening is 300 mg. IT can, therefore, be excluded almost with certainty that the meat would contain such large amounts of hormone residues.

mands

 

[Northern Nutrition]

Clinically speaking, i believe trenbolone is significantly more anabolic than testosterone as outlined in the above links. Along with its anabolic and androgenic rating of 500, this puts trenbolone at the top of the heap. The ratings are of course compared to the testosterone benchmark, which is a paltry 100 compared to the king of kings - trenbolone. I love tren, and i would marry tren if i could.

Sub'd for Scally's info.

 

[Wunderpus]

Clinically speaking, i believe trenbolone is significantly more anabolic than testosterone as outlined in the above links. Along with its anabolic and androgenic rating of 500, this puts trenbolone at the top of the heap. The ratings are of course compared to the testosterone benchmark, which is a paltry 100 compared to the king of kings - trenbolone. I love tren, and i would marry tren if i could.

Sub'd for Scally's info.

Have you ever gained more muscle on tren than test? I would be SHOCKED.... Not knocking you NN.... I am curious how applicable those anabolic/androgenic ratings really are.

 

[redrum720]

As I have stated many times before my first 3cycles were trenbolone E (no pct and my friend say fill the syringe till it marks 1 every 3 days)
That being said I'm going with tren as more anabolic it cuts like a momo but the strength and muscle mass is way better than test
I'm on test ph 100 (2week @150 eod) pip is bearable other than that can't say much

 

[Northern Nutrition]

Have you ever gained more muscle on tren than test? I would be SHOCKED.... Not knocking you NN.... I am curious how applicable those anabolic/androgenic ratings really are.

Good question. The transparent truth is, im not entirely sure how the ratings are/were developed - actual testing prototcols are unknown to me. I do know however that i have certainly experience more strength and therefore i believe more lean muscle growth while using tren compared to test alone.

 

[egonormical1010]

+1 with wunderpus's first statement. I ALWAYS top out between 235 and 237 on tren. It's like clock work.

 

[Wunderpus]

Good question. The transparent truth is, im not entirely sure how the ratings are/were developed - actual testing prototcols are unknown to me. I do know however that i have certainly experience more strength and therefore i believe more lean muscle growth while using tren compared to test alone.

Hmm, I don't know either. To me, they don't mean a whole lot. I'm not sure strength is correlated with muscle mass, as halotestin produces almost instant strength increases, and obviously you don't instantly put on 15% more muscle!

Also, your example is using tren as an additive to test. I think we're comparing apples to apple, tren to test, not test + tren vs. test alone.

Maybe I don't eat enough on tren, not sure. But it does make me strong, lean and fairly aggressive. Whereas test makes me bigger, simple as that. I do worry many people believe tren is adding muscle, when it's really just revealing it by reducing BF %.

Curious to see what others report.

 

[Northern Nutrition]

Anecdotally, I've actually found testosterone to be more anabolic. Trenbolone limits my caloric intake severely, mainly due to acid reflux and appetite suppression. Tren, for me, has proven to be a better anti-catabolic and cutter than a builder. I always hear the tren is "insanely anabolic" but, why then, do most competitive athletes use it for their cuts?

Curious to hear/see other reports or studies, as mine are just broscience.

When you refer to testosterone being more anabolic, what are you using to determine this?

 

[manafest]

For me Tren hands down is the winner for muscle mass compared to test. 30mg daily for 12 weeks always produced great gains for me with almost zero sides.

 

[Wunderpus]

When you refer to testosterone being more anabolic, what are you using to determine this?

Absolutely nothing more than my personal experiences.

When I look to get big, it's test. Test, test and test (maybe deca or whatever, but always high test). When it's cut time, lower the test and add tren. That has always been effective for me.

More test = more mass
More tren = more cut while retaining mass gained from test

Again, this is all MY experience. I would love to hear more and see research for it.

 

[ebkallday]

Absolutely nothing more than my personal experiences.

When I look to get big, it's test. Test, test and test (maybe deca or whatever, but always high test). When it's cut time, lower the test and add tren. That has always been effective for me.

More test = more mass
More tren = more cut while retaining mass gained from test

Again, this is all MY experience. I would love to hear more and see research for it.

Agreed. Tren is special in a way that makes me more dense, less watery and I usually will see a 5-10 lb lbm gain at the end of the cycle. My bf% drops with little effort while I maintain and slightly add to my current LBM. If I want more size, test and deca hands down. Two different hormones with very different effects on my body. The best I have ever looked was when I came off high test and deca and jumped into a low test, high tren 6 weeker.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

I bulk on tren/fina just fine. I find it fills both cutting and bulking roles nicely.

One thing about tren is its recomping ability. I can eat 6000 cals a day and 450g protein and it thins me out WHILE allowing me to bulk. Wonderful amazing stuff

 

[flexx89]

One thing about tren is its recomping ability. I can eat 6000 cals a day and 450g protein and it thins me out WHILE allowing me to bulk. Wonderful amazing stuff

this. ive been having 2000-3000 calorie cheat meals every other day along with my 4-4.5k clean calories and havent gained a ounce of body fat.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

this. ive been having 2000-3000 calorie cheat meals every other day along with my 4-4.5 clean calories and havent gained a ounce of body fat.

Yes tren/fina makes life easy if you can stand the high sides.

 

[flexx89]

Yes tren/fina makes life easy if you can stand the high sides.

yea I'm on tren e. about 400mgish circulating in me increasing to 500 and then topping off with 50mg of tren ace eod to find my limit. only side I'm getting is lack of sleep. waking up every 2 hours or so and tired as fuck

 

[ebkallday]

yea I'm on tren e. about 400mgish circulating in me increasing to 500 and then topping off with 50mg of tren ace eod to find my limit. only side I'm getting is lack of sleep. waking up every 2 hours or so and tired as fuck

A common side I get on tren is pussysomnia... not enough pussy while on tren keeps me up at night.