TRT & 24-Hour Urine

[Millard]

By the absence of any literature support, not a single citation even remotely in support, and no reasonable scientific explanation, it can be concluded this practice is far below the standard of care, a total waste of time and money, and draws into question the practice of anyone recommending these tests. Is this an isolated practice or one of many? From my sources sending me copies of the practice, it is not an isolated instance.

Your request for supporting literature was (almost) a thread ender.

I just wanted to comment on the probably appeal of such testing by laypersons.

The collection of an overwhelming number of data points may seem like the best way to arrive at a diagnose and treatment. After all, more information is better, right?

Your advocacy of efficient, specific and scientifically-informed data collection that is careful to avoid waste seems much more practical given the limited financial resources of many patients and the current state of healthcare.

This is true when both approaches arrive at essentially the same diagnosis and treatment but may be even truer when they don't...

However, I thank you for pointing out that this may not necessarily happen given the "cascade effect"; I had not previously considered that the excessive and unnecessary testing, rather than merely satisfying our curiosity of our own physiology, may actually introduce additional risks and potential harm.

Thank you for taking the time to explain these concepts to us!

 

[rburgandy]

Your request for supporting literature was (almost) a thread ender.

I just wanted to comment on the probably appeal of such testing by laypersons.

The collection of an overwhelming number of data points may seem like the best way to arrive at a diagnose and treatment. After all, more information is better, right?

Your advocacy of efficient, specific and scientifically-informed data collection that is careful to avoid waste seems much more practical given the limited financial resources of many patients and the current state of healthcare.

This is true when both approaches arrive at essentially the same diagnosis and treatment but may be even truer when they don't...

However, I thank you for pointing out that this may not necessarily happen given the "cascade effect"; I had not previously considered that the excessive and unnecessary testing, rather than merely satisfying our curiosity of our own physiology, may actually introduce additional risks and potential harm.

Thank you for taking the time to explain these concepts to us!

Thank YOU for clearing this up.

That's all most people wanted to hear, a reason why urine testing was unnecessary.
I didn't care one way or the other, I just wanted to know why he didn't believe in it.

I obviously don't have as much knowledge as him and am here to learn, I don't want to waste my money if I don't have to.

I use both forms and always feel the urine testing is more indicitive of how I feel.

Not just PROVE ME WRONG, PROVE ME WRONG. When you haven't even stated your case to begin with.

This post will probally be erased, but I hope not.

Hope we can all move on from this, and stay out of the Scally/ Crisler war that none of us really care about.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Thank YOU for clearing this up.

That's all most people wanted to hear, a reason why urine testing was unnecessary.
I didn't care one way or the other, I just wanted to know why he didn't believe in it.

I obviously don't have as much knowledge as him and am here to learn, I don't want to waste my money if I don't have to.

I use both forms and always feel the urine testing is more indicitive of how I feel.

Not just PROVE ME WRONG, PROVE ME WRONG. When you haven't even stated your case to begin with.

This post will probally be erased, but I hope not.

Hope we can all move on from this, and stay out of the Scally/ Crisler war that none of us really care about.

Why would the post be deleted? It is not a personal attack or a supportive off-topic opinion. If you read the thread, I did not say prove me wrong. I asked for a discussion on the scientific merits of a test, which if unsupported is worthless and possible dangerous and harmful to one's health. At the least, a waste to time and money.

I never mentioned any physician's name. You mention Crisler! If he is doing this kind of testing, why not alert others to this practice. Your post implies that he does. Further, I do not have any Crisler problems or concerns. What is this Crilser - Scally war that you refer? I am here to provide a firm background on diagnosis and treatment. I do not use ad hominem argument to make my point, I use science and provide the literature For many, this is not a game, this is their health. This is not a difference of opinion, this impacts a person's life.

Quackery needs exposing. Thus far, Meso has exposed the use of hCG diet, 24-hour urine testing, and use of FSH to monitor TRT. None of these have support, yet are used by physicians. If your physician uses one or more of these treatments, they are practicing quackery. This will not be the last topic I tackle for the benefit of the intelligent Meso readers to evaluate the evidence and decide.