Why there almost certainly is No God!!

[flenser]

Religion allows you to claim to "know" something you don't know.

I disagree. Religion (a.k.a. faith) allows you to know something that you can't prove. Might you be wrong? Of course, but it doesn't necessarily follow that the choices you make based on that (incorrect) knowledge are wrong. The Christian religion, for example, follows the "golden rule" which is a very good representation of the libertarian non-aggression principle, only it was voiced more than 2000 years ago.

I've never heard a scientist use the words...."I know that I know".

Right, that's why we have scientists promoting carbon taxes and population control. They know that they know "scientific" discovery useful to the authoritarian state will get them grant money. The field of science has fallen a long way from its founding, and is very often little more than a branch of the state you claim to despise.

Who would you trust to diagnose and treat cancer, an experienced oncologist/surgeon. Or a religious crackpot that claims he can heal by laying on with hands and anointing you with his magical oil or holy water.

Neither.

The game is up, the people have asked the religious to show their hand,
it's a simple matter of "put up or shut up". You either prove this god that you can describe in such detail, or you face the fact that you're stuck in a chain letter, a game of Chinese whispers that has been going on for the past 2000 years.

Yet while you rail against the state and promote a pseudo-libertarian society (with you as emperor) that can never be realized, you also seek to discredit the one culture that was birthed as resistance to the (Roman) state and has stood against it longer than almost any empire to date. It will certainly outlast the US.

 

[Villain]

The game is up, the people have asked the religious to show their hand,
it's a simple matter of "put up or shut up". You either prove this god that you can describe in such detail, or you face the fact that you're stuck in a chain letter, a game of Chinese whispers that has been going on for the past 2000 years.

Has science actually disproven God? Has it actually proven the theory of evolution? Yet the religious are the ones who must show their hand and put up or shut up? That’s a bit of a double standard.

 

[limitphobic]

I'm just a noob here so i can anticipate a minor bashing but... why does this concept matter at all? live life. it is what you make it. I've been asked "Do you believe in God?" my response?... "I just. dont. care." haha hope everyone is doing well

 

[flenser]

I'm just a noob here so i can anticipate a minor bashing but... why does this concept matter at all? live life. it is what you make it. I've been asked "Do you believe in God?" my response?... "I just. dont. care." haha hope everyone is doing well

When I was 28 I didn't really care either. Now that I'm 58 it's a little more interesting. If I make it to 88 I'll probably be back to not caring.

 

[limitphobic]

When I was 28 I didn't really care either. Now that I'm 58 it's a little more interesting. If I make it to 88 I'll probably be back to not caring.

What i mean to say is: Knowing? Not knowing? does it matter? If the general conclusion is God is all knowing, all powerful, all etc... then i think its safe to say that... Gods got this haha but i do understand what you mean i think... its hope. and happiness. who am i to shit on someone else's hope and happiness just to be "right"

edit: In the long run... It'll be as though I've had never existed at all. That brings me some serious peace.. knowing all my fuck-ups, effort, successes, and failures will all be forgotten. never to be immortalized. never to have mattered at all. it sounds cynical. its not. its freedom.

 

[movingiron88]

All I got to say is faith has increasingly decline since 1960's on. Look at our society and how it has changed since then. Violence, lack of morals, narcissism, abortions, I could go on and on. That decline in moral values has increased while faith has decreased.

Believe in it or not it certainly made for a better society.

 

[flenser]

What i mean to say is: Knowing? Not knowing? does it matter? If the general conclusion is God is all knowing, all powerful, all etc... then i think its safe to say that... Gods got this haha but i do understand what you mean i think... its hope. and happiness. who am i to shit on someone else's hope and happiness just to be "right"

edit: In the long run... It'll be as though I've had never existed at all. That brings me some serious peace.. knowing all my fuck-ups, effort, successes, and failures will all be forgotten. never to be immortalized. never to have mattered at all. it sounds cynical. its not. its freedom.

There is agriculture, calculus, air conditioning, cars and vast networks of easily traveled roads, air travel, antibiotics, and cell phones to name a few things that are or will be still here long after their creators are gone, and your happiness is highly dependent on many of these things. It is definitely NOT like they never mattered at all. They still mater today.

I feel I owe a debt for my life. I want to leave something that makes others happy. I want to mater. If you extend your ideal of not mattering after you're gone to everyone else, then your happiness which does mater to you today could be enhanced by doing things that are harmful to others. When they are gone, what would it mater? It's a dark and pointless road you travel.

 

[limitphobic]

There is agriculture, calculus, air conditioning, cars and vast networks of easily traveled roads, air travel, antibiotics, and cell phones to name a few things that are or will be still here long after their creators are gone, and your happiness is highly dependent on many of these things. It is definitely NOT like they never mattered at all. They still mater today.

I feel I owe a debt for my life. I want to leave something that makes others happy. I want to mater. If you extend your ideal of not mattering after you're gone to everyone else, then your happiness which does mater to you today could be enhanced by doing things that are harmful to others. When they are gone, what would it mater? It's a dark and pointless road you travel.

you have a good point there. We can and should try to make life as great as possible for others and ourselves. All of those inventions are in fact long lasting... but not ever lasting. I'm not saying "give up because its pointless." ... I'm saying don't worry about it.

It's a dark and pointless road you travel.

All of this questioning of if things are real or fake, true or untrue, pointless or purposeful.... I think that clouds your experience and that, my friend, is a dark and pointless road you travel. I'm leaving this thread but its been a pleasure going in circles with all of you haha

 

[flenser]

All of this questioning of if things are real or fake, true or untrue, pointless or purposeful.... I think that clouds your experience and that, my friend, is a dark and pointless road you travel. I'm leaving this thread but its been a pleasure going in circles with all of you haha

Sorry, it wasn't personal or meant to make you feel bad. In truth, I just like to argue. Sometimes I go a little too far. : )

Edit: I should have said, "It would be..", not "It is..", "a dark and pointless road".

 

[martino]

All I got to say is faith has increasingly decline since 1960's on. Look at our society and how it has changed since then. Violence, lack of morals, narcissism, abortions, I could go on and on. That decline in moral values has increased while faith has decreased.

Believe in it or not it certainly made for a better society.

We live in a police state, violent crime in all respects is drastically down compared to what it was back in the 70's and 80's. I grew up in Texas, that shit was scary as fuck back then. Murders were constant. Rapes were constant. Now you have video and forensics tools that allow them to catch these people in a fraction of the time. Religion back then was on every block, moms screaming with their megaphones we were all going to hell if we didn't listen to their ranting and raving. Preachers warning us that if they couldn't fuck our teen daughters there was gonna be hell to pay.

The morals from church don't really add up to anything, there are plenty of guys/gals that are religious that are straight up psychopaths, sociopaths. Look at the catholics, hardly a preist that hasn't stuck his dick up some poor kids rump. Historically the preachers kids were almost always the worst kids, they were always getting into trouble, getting prego out of wedlock...ect.

Religion doesn't make a person good, faith doesn't make a person good. If you are only good because you believe there's an old man in the sky that will send you to hell, then you're not anyone I would want to be around for 5 minutes. All it take is a few times of you breaking the imaginary rules that were set in place by these religions to realize that nothing will happen to you. Eventually your tolerance and threshold increases as you test the limits of your imaginary god and realize that nothing happens to you when you break these rules. Pretty soon you're going balls to the wall in life until you screw everything up and come crashing to your knees slobbering and crying for your god to forgive you.....rinse and repeat....seen it a million times.

Take for instance the 70's and 80's, church was going full steam ahead, whenever there was a conference, a national meeting of religious folk swarming into a large city, the porn shops would suddenly sell out of everything they had magazines and vhs tapes, the hardest nasty stuff, especially young teen tarts.

Old Jimmy Swaggart getting caught four times with prostitutes, when asked by his church what was going on he said "The lord told me to tell you that it's none of your business".

 

[martino]

Has science actually disproven God? Has it actually proven the theory of evolution? Yet the religious are the ones who must show their hand and put up or shut up? That’s a bit of a double standard.

If you're gonna claim something, you need to back it up with proof. There's at least a fossil record pointing to evolution, carbon dating showing age. We have something. They don't have all the pieces, but there's clearly evolution going on, both macro and micro evolution. We have evolution based on natural selection on clear display thanks to Darwin's discovery.

As for God, you have stories that were placed in a time that predates science, an independent eye witness testimony, a time when the vast majority were illiterate. You have physical landmarks that were used as jumping off points for supernatural tales.

It would be like this: Say I was eating a bowl of cornflakes and my neighbor pulled up in a sports cars that looked like the one from "back to the future", so I call my friend up and tell him that I saw car levitate off the ground, wheels fold in and shoot off into the sky and disappear and now it's back in the driveway. So my friend runs over to my house and sees that the car is indeed in the drive way, it's a sports car.....so the rest of my fantastical story must be true as well because I'm a prophet sent from god and god speaks through me and who the fuck are you ever question me. So I take this info and I write it down so others in the future can know that I was the chosen one among the chosen people.

This is how religion like what's written in the bible accumulates into a colossal pile of stories meant for campfire tales for a people needing a myth to form their culture.....jewish culture that was foisted onto the rest of humanity whether that be Christianity or Islam.

It's not my culture, these aren't my people. Why would I, a person of Western European decent want to follow a middle eastern culture and look to a people that quite frankly are backwards and off their rockers.

 

[chileandawg]

Do you know what the hell is creationism? Is that in the Bible? I don´t think so bud.

 

[4Figgy]

 

[4Figgy]

Do you know what the hell is creationism? Is that in the Bible? I don´t think so bud.

That only pertains to new earth creationism which isn’t the majority of Christians. As to evolution of a first single cell organism to humans, the science isn’t there. I don’t debate that it’s not a possibility, but evolution isn’t non-Biblical either. You can argue that God created man through evolution since there is nothing stated in the Bible that man was not created through evolution.

 

[notdeadYET]

If you're gonna claim something, you need to back it up with proof. There's at least a fossil record pointing to evolution, carbon dating showing age. We have something. They don't have all the pieces, but there's clearly evolution going on, both macro and micro evolution. We have evolution based on natural selection on clear display thanks to Darwin's discovery.

As for God, you have stories that were placed in a time that predates science, an independent eye witness testimony, a time when the vast majority were illiterate. You have physical landmarks that were used as jumping off points for supernatural tales.

It would be like this: Say I was eating a bowl of cornflakes and my neighbor pulled up in a sports cars that looked like the one from "back to the future", so I call my friend up and tell him that I saw car levitate off the ground, wheels fold in and shoot off into the sky and disappear and now it's back in the driveway. So my friend runs over to my house and sees that the car is indeed in the drive way, it's a sports car.....so the rest of my fantastical story must be true as well because I'm a prophet sent from god and god speaks through me and who the fuck are you ever question me. So I take this info and I write it down so others in the future can know that I was the chosen one among the chosen people.

This is how religion like what's written in the bible accumulates into a colossal pile of stories meant for campfire tales for a people needing a myth to form their culture.....jewish culture that was foisted onto the rest of humanity whether that be Christianity or Islam.

It's not my culture, these aren't my people. Why would I, a person of Western European decent want to follow a middle eastern culture and look to a people that quite frankly are backwards and off their rockers.

@zepp I take it this wall of text is from your new handle?

 

[4Figgy]

If you're gonna claim something, you need to back it up with proof. There's at least a fossil record pointing to evolution, carbon dating showing age. We have something. They don't have all the pieces, but there's clearly evolution going on, both macro and micro evolution. We have evolution based on natural selection on clear display thanks to Darwin's discovery.

As for God, you have stories that were placed in a time that predates science, an independent eye witness testimony, a time when the vast majority were illiterate. You have physical landmarks that were used as jumping off points for supernatural tales.

It would be like this: Say I was eating a bowl of cornflakes and my neighbor pulled up in a sports cars that looked like the one from "back to the future", so I call my friend up and tell him that I saw car levitate off the ground, wheels fold in and shoot off into the sky and disappear and now it's back in the driveway. So my friend runs over to my house and sees that the car is indeed in the drive way, it's a sports car.....so the rest of my fantastical story must be true as well because I'm a prophet sent from god and god speaks through me and who the fuck are you ever question me. So I take this info and I write it down so others in the future can know that I was the chosen one among the chosen people.

This is how religion like what's written in the bible accumulates into a colossal pile of stories meant for campfire tales for a people needing a myth to form their culture.....jewish culture that was foisted onto the rest of humanity whether that be Christianity or Islam.

It's not my culture, these aren't my people. Why would I, a person of Western European decent want to follow a middle eastern culture and look to a people that quite frankly are backwards and off their rockers.

 

[Villain]

@zepp I take it this wall of text is from your new handle?

Why did I think the same thing? Same thought patterns and even the same comments. The question is: why? He’s not banned under the Zepp handle.

 

[martino]

Zepp has passed away. He's no longer with us, lets bow our heads and have a moment of silence to remember him.

 

[martino]

That only pertains to new earth creationism which isn’t the majority of Christians. As to evolution of a first single cell organism to humans, the science isn’t there. I don’t debate that it’s not a possibility, but evolution isn’t non-Biblical either. You can argue that God created man through evolution since there is nothing stated in the Bible that man was not created through evolution.

As complex as a single cell organism is and as difficult as it is to figure out the riddle of abiogenisis, it would be a trillion trillion trillion trillion^infinity times more difficult for an all knowing supreme being to exist without being created by another creator leading to an infinite regress of creators.

At some point you have to go with the data you have. We seem to have a universe that becomes more and more complex through entropy. God of the gaps is work of the lazy when we still haven't even come close to the exhausting and collecting the data we could to explain our natural universe, using the concepts of naturalism.

Deism could once be used to explain what we see. However that has never really had a large following, it's always been a religion based on collected writings from primitive backwards cultures that are somehow wise by default because they lived long in the past. We romanticize these idiots for a reason I can't comprehend. However if we look around today the vast majority of humans are dumbshits that I wouldn't trust stocking the shelves of my local supermarket. And that's coming from a present society where a six year old has more understanding of the universe than any goat herding child raping middle easterner had 2000 years ago.

 

[martino]

The historicity of Jesus just isn't there. There is not independent eye witness accounts to anything Jesus did. You have the writings of biased followers, Pauls(he never met Jesus) writings come about 20 years after Jesus was supposedly executed. The first gospel of Mark seems to have been written 30 years after.

Most people back than might have lived to be 40 if they were extremely lucky.

So who wrote these anonymous writings. We find many of these writings were written not by who they were claimed to have been written by. At least 7 of Pauls letters appear to be written by someone else. The gospels appear to serve the purpose to convince Jews that Jesus was the Messiah even though the idea of a Messiah that dies and doesn't bring world peace contradicts the Old Testament prophecy. Isaiah Chapter 53 has a description of a man that is treated like what is written in the gospels, the question is these Old Testament writings were clearly available in the form of the Septuagint written in Koine Greek, which is the language of the New Testament. So pouring through the Sep. would allow you to cherry pick and create a Gospel that lines up with these OT writings.

It would be one thing if you'd found out that these writings were predicted by cultures all over the world separated by bodies of waters, they all wrote down the exact same words at the same time in their own languages, but we don't have that. There's nothing supernatural involved. We have scribes that sit down to write a very well written story to fit the agenda of a group that insists this was the messiah, an idea that was eagerly awaited.

So what makes this a supernatural act. Seems like something any of us could carry out if we wanted.