Why there almost certainly is No God!!

[idmd]

One of my problems with Christianity is this idea that if you are not Christian you must be morally bankrupt, out of control and living the life of a "sinner". There's an assumption that being a practicing Christian means you aren't all of those things when the truth is I know more morally bankrupt people who never miss church on Sunday and some atheists who have truly given themselves to this world to help others on a scale none of us could manage. Catholic priests are the perfect example. The holiest of men being pedophiles - good Christian men who are totally full of shit. I know too many people who claim to be Christian who are totally full of shit....they simply hedging their bets just incase the bible is right. I'm a lot of things but I'm not full of shit. I don't do the right thing out of fear of not getting into heaven....I'm simply a good person....without being a Christian. If God could look at my life in the end and say even though i tried my best to be a good person, help others, and make my small part of the world better but that I didn't say enough hail Mary's or spend enough time on Sunday in church and that makes unworthy.....well that's not my god then.

Who goes to heaven...the "practicing Christian" who goes to church, goes to confession and sends his kids to bible school, so he has time to fuck the maid while he plans to steal his clients money on a coke bender or the atheist who starts a world-wide charity that helps million of people who are suffering?

The concept of if your not with me you must be evil and deserve eternal damnation is just silly. The only thing religion is good for is inducing mass delusional behavior.

 

[Stretch]

One of my problems with Christianity is this idea that if you are not Christian you must be morally bankrupt, out of control and living the life of a "sinner". There's an assumption that being a practicing Christian means you aren't all of those things when the truth is I know more morally bankrupt people who never miss church on Sunday and some atheists who have truly given themselves to this world to help others on a scale none of us could manage. Catholic priests are the perfect example. The holiest of men being pedophiles - good Christian men who are totally full of shit. I know too many people who claim to be Christian who are totally full of shit....they simply hedging their bets just incase the bible is right. I'm a lot of things but I'm not full of shit. I don't do the right thing out of fear of not getting into heaven....I'm simply a good person....without being a Christian. If God could look at my life in the end and say even though i tried my best to be a good person, help others, and make my small part of the world better but that I didn't say enough hail Mary's or spend enough time on Sunday in church and that makes unworthy.....well that's not my god then.

Who goes to heaven...the "practicing Christian" who goes to church, goes to confession and sends his kids to bible school, so he has time to fuck the maid while he plans to steal his clients money on a coke bender or the atheist who starts a world-wide charity that helps million of people who are suffering?

The concept of if your not with me you must be evil and deserve eternal damnation is just silly. The only thing religion is good for is inducing mass delusional behavior.

So you believe the failures of others will justify your own shortcomings?

Nowhere in the Bible are we taught the moral superiority of believers. In fact, quite the opposite. There are 2 forms of people in this works. Forgiven sinners. And unforgiven.

Some of the most morally corrupt may have asked for forgiveness and joined the latter group.

Some with high moral fiber may have been too proud to admit that they are not the masters of their own universe, and that pride may be the one sin, which God sends them to hell for.

I believe pride will send more people to hell than any other sin. Why else would God make a list of things he hates and name "pride" before all else? Because he wants everyone to accept his son, and his forgiveness. But doing so forces one to relinquish control of their life.

Proverbs 6:16-17

16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

 

[nano]

I believe pride will send more people to hell than any other sin. Why else would God make a list of things he hates and name "pride" before all else? Because he wants everyone to accept his son, and his forgiveness. But doing so forces one to relinquish control of their life.

I'm am not sold on the list being god's list, but rather some goat herders who wrote it down.

And if it is god's list, and he plans to punish me for eternity for not accepting his forgiveness and christianity's Jesus, and for having pride in myself and doing what I know to be right, for myself and not for anyone else... well that just can't be right.

If I'm to be condemned to an eternity of torture for not relinquishing control of my life to your god, that is demanding that I be a slave to your religious institution and attempting to use fear to force me into it. But I guess that is good way to rise to power over the masses.

I am a slave to no one. Man or deity.

 

[Stretch]

I'm am not sold on the list being god's list, but rather some goat herders who wrote it down.

And if it is god's list, and he plans to punish me for eternity for not accepting his forgiveness and christianity's Jesus, and for having pride in myself and doing what I know to be right, for myself and not for anyone else... well that just can't be right.

If I'm to be condemned to an eternity of torture for not relinquishing control of my life to your god, that is demanding that I be a slave to your religious institution and attempting to use fear to force me into it. But I guess that is good way to rise to power over the masses.

I am a slave to no one. Man or deity.

You're a slave to sin.

And proverbs was written by who? A goat herder? Really?

 

[idmd]

I'm am not sold on the list being god's list, but rather some goat herders who wrote it down.

And if it is god's list, and he plans to punish me for eternity for not accepting his forgiveness and christianity's Jesus, and for having pride in myself and doing what I know to be right, for myself and not for anyone else... well that just can't be right.

If I'm to be condemned to an eternity of torture for not relinquishing control of my life to your god, that is demanding that I be a slave to your religious institution and attempting to use fear to force me into it. But I guess that is good way to rise to power over the masses.

I am a slave to no one. Man or deity.

The Christian version of God always sounded like a petulant child to me or the head of frat house.

Seriously, God is capable of making the universe but also capable of acting like a 5 year old when you don't want to join his team? If God had a daddy he'd smack him on the hand and tell him to play nice.

Since it's all bullshit I guess I'm wasting my breath.

Here's a question....why did God talk to so many people in the Bible but seems to absent now? The answer is we treat psychiatric patients now.

 

[Stretch]

The Christian version of God always sounded like a petulant child to me or the head of frat house.

Seriously, God is capable of making the universe but also capable of acting like a 5 year old when you don't want to join his team? If God had a daddy he'd smack him on the hand and tell him to play nice.

Since it's all bullshit I guess I'm wasting my breath.

Here's a question....why did God talk to so many people in the Bible but seems to absent now? The answer is we treat psychiatric patients now.

The venom with which you guys speak... I thought Christians were the mean ones..

Again. You guys have a few more decades to live with your illusions, then the gift God gave you (life) will be no more.

God is holy.

Holy = separated from sin.

How can god,who is holy, allow man,who is sinful, into his presence (heaven)?

Well maybe he can just let them slide right? Since he is loving?

To do so would violate another aspect of his persona. He is just. A just God would never require forgiveness of some, while giving others a "pass".

Here's more from that antiquated rule book...full of nothing but hate

"...(God is) not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance" 2Pet. 3:9

 

[idmd]

It's a sweet system....don't sin and don't ask for forgiveness and you're fucked anyway or sin as much as you want and ask for forgiveness and you're good!

I'll keep that in mind for the last few seconds of my life

 

[idmd]

Explain it one more time for me. I grow up a God loving Jew because my family was Jewish. I follow my religion to a T and go to Temple often and live a good life. Let's say I start a foundation that eventually ends homelessness, AIDS and hunger - no one has a bad thing to say about me on my death bed.

Now because I was not born a Christian and because I had NO exposure to Christianity and even though I loved and spoke to God daily because I didn't follow Christianity I'm fucked?

You know EVERY religion believes THEY are right. It is arrogant to think you're more right than them.

 

[idmd]

BTW....I'm not trying to argue just to argue. These are my genuine reasons and thoughts that lead me to being a non-believer.

 

[nuncaquite]

This post will put us at about 38 pages on a divisive subject. Any minds or lives changed yet? Has anything positive come of it? Better off as a board or community? Just asking, dont read anything else into the questions.

 

[nano]

This post will put us at about 38 pages on a divisive subject. Any minds or lives changed yet? Has anything positive come of it? Better off as a board or community? Just asking, dont read anything else into the questions.

no. but I hope opinions and agreements and disagreements on this topic will stay in this thread and not affect our dialogues in the rest of the forum.

 

[Stretch]

Explain it one more time for me. I grow up a God loving Jew because my family was Jewish. I follow my religion to a T and go to Temple often and live a good life. Let's say I start a foundation that eventually ends homelessness, AIDS and hunger - no one has a bad thing to say about me on my death bed.

Now because I was not born a Christian and because I had NO exposure to Christianity and even though I loved and spoke to God daily because I didn't follow Christianity I'm fucked?

You know EVERY religion believes THEY are right. It is arrogant to think you're more right than them.

Its not arrogant of me to have a belief. In order for anyone to be right, someone must be wrong. I don't believe I am better than them. I believe that God will reveal himself to everyone through conscience.

The Jews dont accept Christ as the Messiah. That's an egregious offense Biblically.

Christ was God incarnate, according to Biblical doctrine.the entire teaching of the Bible revolves around accepting the Messiah.

Not all Jews reject the notion of Christ being the messiah. And his being the messiah is not mutually exclusive with most of their religion. ie...messianic Jews.

I believe anyone who seeks God with an open mind can find him.

Matthew 7 comes to mind. God warns of false prophets and how to recognize them. He also tells us to seek and we will find, and commonly reinforced theme in the Bible is that God reveals himself to those that genuinely want truth.

 

[nuncaquite]

no. but I hope opinions and agreements and disagreements on this topic will stay in this thread and not affect our dialogues in the rest of the forum.

That would be nice.

 

[idmd]

Its not arrogant of me to have a belief. In order for anyone to be right, someone must be wrong. I don't believe I am better than them. I believe that God will reveal himself to everyone through conscience.

The Jews dont accept Christ as the Messiah. That's an egregious offense Biblically.

Christ was God incarnate, according to Biblical doctrine.the entire teaching of the Bible revolves around accepting the Messiah.

Not all Jews reject the notion of Christ being the messiah. And his being the messiah is not mutually exclusive with most of their religion. ie...messianic Jews.

I believe anyone who seeks God with an open mind can find him.

Matthew 7 comes to mind. God warns of false prophets and how to recognize them. He also tells us to seek and we will find, and commonly reinforced theme in the Bible is that God reveals himself to those that genuinely want truth.

Ok but if my fictitious Jew doesn't find Christianity and accept Jesus he still goes to hell even after solving three of the world's great problems?

 

[Stretch]

Ok but if my fictitious Jew doesn't find Christianity and accept Jesus he still goes to hell even after solving three of the world's great problems?

Yes. He goes to hell. God is just. How could a just god demand forgiveness of one individual.and not the other?... "for by grace are we saved, through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast"

If people.could justify themselves through good works, then Heaven stops being s gift and becomes something we can earn. If your "jew" was as devout as you created him to be, he would know this. Even from using the old testament solely. Isaiah 64:6 comes to mind.

Read "Romans chapter 3"

Here is v20:

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight....

v24:

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

 

[idmd]

It's not arrogant to have "A" belief....it is arrogant to think your belief is the only true belief.

You have NO proof you're right. You read something or heard something and you made a decision to believe Christianity is the right choice. The Bible was written by men long ago and certainly doesn't offer ANY proof. Christians sidestep this with the idea God doesn't owe you proof but you owe him your "unwavering faith" anyway. Nothing more than the idea of a clever man who when asked by his co-writers how would they prove to the people God exists - meh....we don't have to prove anything....listen to this.....

I'm still just sad my good Jewish friend who solved so many of the worlds problems is spending eternity with me in hell

I'm starting a new religion - it's about a big (fictitious) bearded man in the sky who determines if you've been naughty or nice and decides if you get rewarded or not. The best part he's already a saint ! It's called Claustianity! We follow the book Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer.

What do you think?

 

[Stretch]

It's not arrogant to have "A" belief....it is arrogant to think your belief is the only true belief.

You have NO proof you're right. You read something or heard something and you made a decision to believe Christianity is the right choice. The Bible was written by men long ago and certainly doesn't offer ANY proof. Christians sidestep this with the idea God doesn't owe you proof but you owe him your "unwavering faith" anyway. Nothing more than the idea of a clever man who when asked by his co-writers how would they prove to the people God exists - meh....we don't have to prove anything....listen to this.....

I'm still just sad my good Jewish friend who solved so many of the worlds problems is spending eternity with me in hell

I'm starting a new religion - it's about a big (fictitious) bearded man in the sky who determines if you've been naughty or nice and decides if you get rewarded or not. The best part he's already a saint ! It's called Claustianity! We follow the book Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer.

What do you think?

I think I'm done attempting to articulate my point to someone who considers a valued response the demeaning of my beliefs. This isn't my football team you're talking about right now. It is very hard to remain polite at this point.

Enjoy the decades (hopefully) you have remaining. I suggest you read the verses and some of the books I mentioned here.

 

[idmd]

I think I'm done attempting to articulate my point to someone who considers a valued response the demeaning of my beliefs. This isn't my football team you're talking about right now. It is very hard to remain polite at this point.

Enjoy the decades (hopefully) you have remaining. I suggest you read the verses and some of the books I mentioned here.

Stretch....for any devout Muslim or Jew on these forums you don't think what you've said isn't demeaning to THEIR beliefs? Seriously?

YOU are the only one who is right and ALL others go to hell isn't demeaning to others?

I wrote that last response not to be hurtful but because I KNEW this is where you'd take it. My point was proven.

Believe it or not I enjoyed the debate...I used to have contempt for believers and now I know many are good people with a different POV. I accept them for who they are....many Christians do not return the favor. I hope no hard feelings...none on my side!

Speaking of football....PRESEASON!

 

[idmd]

This post will put us at about 38 pages on a divisive subject. Any minds or lives changed yet? Has anything positive come of it? Better off as a board or community? Just asking, dont read anything else into the questions.

This post is doing exactly what it's supposed to do....give people with differing opinions the opportunity to hear out others. It is NOT supposed to change minds.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

One of my problems with Christianity is this idea that if you are not Christian you must be morally bankrupt, out of control and living the life of a "sinner". There's an assumption that being a practicing Christian means you aren't all of those things when the truth is I know more morally bankrupt people who never miss church on Sunday and some atheists who have truly given themselves to this world to help others on a scale none of us could manage. Catholic priests are the perfect example. The holiest of men being pedophiles - good Christian men who are totally full of shit. I know too many people who claim to be Christian who are totally full of shit....they simply hedging their bets just incase the bible is right. I'm a lot of things but I'm not full of shit. I don't do the right thing out of fear of not getting into heaven....I'm simply a good person....without being a Christian. If God could look at my life in the end and say even though i tried my best to be a good person, help others, and make my small part of the world better but that I didn't say enough hail Mary's or spend enough time on Sunday in church and that makes unworthy.....well that's not my god then.

Who goes to heaven...the "practicing Christian" who goes to church, goes to confession and sends his kids to bible school, so he has time to fuck the maid while he plans to steal his clients money on a coke bender or the atheist who starts a world-wide charity that helps million of people who are suffering?

The concept of if your not with me you must be evil and deserve eternal damnation is just silly. The only thing religion is good for is inducing mass delusional behavior.

You make a lot of good points. My feelings on religion, whatever it may be, is that it should be a personal thing, practiced only for YOUR benefit and no one elses. Believers shouldn't be concerned about what anybody else believes or doesn't believe.

Regarding hell, the idea that hell exists as a physical place for a supposedly *loving* God to punish those who don't "make the cut" seems silly to me. No one alive asked to be born. No alive asked for a test where the punishment for failure is eternal damnation. According to how some interpret scripture, God already knows who is going to hell before they are even born. If that's true, my question is what kind of God would create a creature only to be tormented for eternity? What kind of God would comdemn someone to hell for failing a test they never asked to take in a life they never asked to live? Is that the kind of God you want to believe in?

Leaving aside the question of whether God exists or doesn't, the notion that hell exists as a place to punish "sinners" should be relegated to the dustbin of history, IMO.

CBS