Why there almost certainly is No God!!

Michael Scally MD

Doctor of Medicine
Re: Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham - HD

How Bill Nye Won the Debate
How Bill Nye Won the Debate | NCSE

In tonight’s debate between Bill Nye and Ken Ham, the Science Guy went on stage equipped with the most vital tool of all in any oral debate over evolution and creationism: a showman's flair, developed over three decades of experience explaining science to the broad public.

Of course, he also had the science on his side, which doesn't hurt. But it isn’t a guarantee of anything in a stage debate: competitive debaters are judged by their ability to argue either side of a question. Debate is a tool for showing who's a better orator, not necessarily who's right.

And Ken Ham is no mean orator, usually. Yet, although he's spent a lifetime attacking evolution on stage, it seemed like he forgot to eat his Wheaties (or Weetabix) that morning. His presentation was largely drawn from his stock presentations, sometimes rambled far afield, and often raced by so quickly that it was hard even to know what he was saying. He also relied a lot on video clips of fellow young-earth creationists, as if he weren’t confident in his ability to sell his own message.

Nye prepared well. On the way to the venue, he picked up a piece of limestone from the roadside, with a fossil in it, to show how the rocks beneath the auditorium themselves show the evidence of evolution. He opened by undercutting the core of Ken Ham's claim to authority, emphasizing that Ken Ham bases his claims not on the empirical evidence, but on a very particular reading of Genesis. And that way of reading Genesis is very specific to Ken Ham, not to most of the world’s religious people, or even Ham’s fellow evangelicals. He never stopped emphasizing that Ham’s theology is an outlier, and that he doesn’t speak for religious people, Christians, evangelicals, or even all creationists.
 

Michael Scally MD

Doctor of Medicine
Re: Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham - HD

Bill Nye Ken Ham Debate In Depth Recap Synopsis and Who Won
Bill Nye Ken Ham Debate In Depth Recap Synopsis and Who Won

The Bill Nye vs. Ken Ham debate has just concluded, and Nye has emerged the clear winner.

Here is an in-depth recap and synopsis of the events as they unfolded, leading up to the dramatic victory of Nye, much to the delight of the secular community.

[Nye did not just win, BUT demolished every "point" raised by Ham. As if creationism is a valid "science."]
 

Michael Scally MD

Doctor of Medicine
Re: Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham - HD

How Bill Nye Won the Debate
How Bill Nye Won the Debate | NCSE

Listing a host of lines of evidence that indicates a history of the Earth extending back thousands of times longer than Ken Ham's creation model would allow, Nye observed that any one of these would seem to disprove the major prediction of Ken Ham's creation model.

If the Earth is less than 6,000 years old, why are there ice cores from Antarctica with over 600,000 annual layers?

Why are there trees with over 10,000 annual rings?

Why weren't those trees scoured away by the Flood which Ken Ham's creation model insists covered the Earth for a year, and which is supposed to have moved with such force as to have carved out the Grand Canyon?

Speaking of the Grand Canyon and the Flood, Nye asked why the Flood would only have carved out one Grand Canyon, rather than dozens on each continent?

Why do you see fossils in a very specific order in the Grand Canyon and everywhere else, without any animals trying to crawl out of the floodwaters? Ken Ham’s creation model can’t explain it.

Nor can Ken Ham's creation model predict delicate fossil trackways and worm burrows preserved deep inside the Canyon, in rocks that it claims settled out and turned to rock during the year before the Flood receded.

Ken Ham's creation model doesn't explain the world after the Flood either. It claims all humans alive today descend from eight people on the Ark, and that the sixteen million species alive today all rapidly evolved from about 7,000 pairs on the Ark.

That makes the Ark the biggest, most-cramped zoo ever, and the most poorly-staffed. It means that Ham is predicting a staggering rate of speciation, roughly twenty-five new species every day. You might see a brand-new species of robin in your front yard tomorrow, if that rate of speciation is correct.

And if Ken Ham’s creation model is right, it should be easy to see the differences between the separately created “kinds.” But showing an image of dozens of fossil hominid skulls, Nye asked where the line between humans and apes could be found.

Not only was the audience unsure, but even creationists don't agree where you'd find the line. Not what Ken Ham’s creation model would predict, but exactly what you'd expect if humans and apes share common ancestry.

If Ken Ham’s creation model is right, why do we find the cosmic background radiation, an echo of the Big Bang, exactly as predicted by theory, and which lets us precisely estimate the age of the universe?

Ken Ham’s creation model couldn’t predict it, but astronomy based on real science does.
 

Michael Scally MD

Doctor of Medicine
UN Report Denounces Vatican For Sex Abuse And Stands On Contraception, Abortion And Homosexuality
UN denounces Vatican over child abuse and demands immediate action | World news | theguardian.com

A UN human rights committee has denounced the Vatican for adopting policies that allowed priests to rape and molest tens of thousands of children, and urged it to open its files on the paedophiles and the churchmen who concealed their crimes.

In a devastating report on Wednesday, the UN committee also severely criticised the Holy See for its attitudes toward homosexuality, contraception and abortion and demanded that the Vatican "immediately remove" all clergy who are known or suspected child abusers and turn them over to civil authorities.

The committed said the Holy See should also hand over its archives on sexual abuse of tens of thousands of children so that culprits, as well as "those who concealed their crimes", could be held accountable.

The watchdog's exceptionally blunt paper – the most far-reaching critique of the church hierarchy by the world body – followed its public grilling of Vatican officials last month.
 

dnoyez

Member
UN Report Denounces Vatican For Sex Abuse And Stands On Contraception, Abortion And Homosexuality
UN denounces Vatican over child abuse and demands immediate action | World news | theguardian.com

A UN human rights committee has denounced the Vatican for adopting policies that allowed priests to rape and molest tens of thousands of children, and urged it to open its files on the paedophiles and the churchmen who concealed their crimes.

In a devastating report on Wednesday, the UN committee also severely criticised the Holy See for its attitudes toward homosexuality, contraception and abortion and demanded that the Vatican "immediately remove" all clergy who are known or suspected child abusers and turn them over to civil authorities.

The committed said the Holy See should also hand over its archives on sexual abuse of tens of thousands of children so that culprits, as well as "those who concealed their crimes", could be held accountable.

The watchdog's exceptionally blunt paper – the most far-reaching critique of the church hierarchy by the world body – followed its public grilling of Vatican officials last month.

This is the world we live in. p-collins
 

Michael Scally MD

Doctor of Medicine
Unfortunately, this is the level of ignorance present TODAY.

22 Messages From Creationists To People Who Believe In Evolution
I asked 22 self-identifying creationists at the Bill Nye/Ken Ham debate to write a message/question/note to the other side. Here’s what they wrote.
22 Messages From Creationists To People Who Believe In Evolution

 

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cvictorg

Member
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdmxv-LL_f8]Even Pat Robertson Denies Earth is 6000 Years Old! - YouTube[/ame]

Pat Robertson, in a shocking turn of events, dispels the Creationist idea that the earth is only 6,000 years old.
 

Dr JIM

Member
Yea that's nice to see PR admit the science is irrefutable but could the commentators by a little LESS biased.

I mean really must EVERYONE have an damn agenda!

Hey who is now donating to the "David Portman" show, lol!
 

Dr JIM

Member
An opposing view; why Ken Ham won the debate would make ADMIN on Meso appear a little less biased also.
 

Michael Scally MD

Doctor of Medicine
Oldest Camel Bones Undergo Carbon Dating, ‘Direct Proof’ Bible Was Written Centuries After Events Described
Oldest Camel Bones Undergo Carbon Dating, ‘Direct Proof’ Bible Was Written Centuries After Events Described

New carbon dating that determined the age of the oldest known camel bones has challenged Biblical accuracy.

Camels are described in the Old Testament stories of Abraham, Joseph and Jacob as pack animals.

The latest findings, published in the journal Tel Aviv, reveal that camels were most likely domesticated around 900 BC – centuries after the biblical stories are believed to have taken place.


The Introduction of Domestic Camels to the Southern Levant: Evidence from the Aravah Valley
The Introduction of Domestic Camels to the Southern Levant: Evidence from the Aravah Valley | Lidar Sapir-Hen - Academia.edu

It was recently suggested that the introduction of the camel to the southern Levant occurred in the early Iron Age (late 2nd–early 1st millennia BCE). Our study of faunal remains from Iron Age sites at Timna, together with previous studies of Late Bronze and Iron Age sites at Timna and Wadi Faynan, enable us to pinpoint this event more precisely.

The new evidence indicates that the first significant appearance of camels in the Aravah Valley was not earlier than the last third of the 10th century BCE. This date accords with data from the Negev and the settled lands further to the north when the low chronology is applied to the early Iron IIA.

Sapir-Hen L, Ben-Yosef E. The Introduction of Domestic Camels to the Southern Levant: Evidence from the Aravah Valley. TEL AVIV 2013;40:277–85.
 

BBC3

Member
I wonder did the "creationalist" in the debate focus on a "God" as the force CREATING. Or did he just present common modern day extra-terrestrial "alien type" hypothesis, and thus slickly try to pass off as RELIGION...?

Its STILL all MOOT as Creation CLEARLY "Evolves".... To split hairs over whether an Ape became a human is SO FUCKING POINTLESS. The PROOF....: There are still apes..... and further that NONE of them resemble humans.... Case closed. People are so fucking stupid its incredible. Its a clear condition of each/both/all of the above (my favorite answer next to "c" - LOL)

The LEARNING LESSON for me (as I spend much of my time here PROCRASTINATING) from the monotony of the HUMDRUM of work, WHICH IS that I/we/people/humans will do ANYTHING to avert the boredom and PAIN of "Status Quo".... This....... IS......... is the human condition that elicits GROWTH as "EVOLUTION".... OR more like causes/creates the conditions for Evolution....

CLEARLY - this is the PRIMARY and ONLY difference in all other mammals, animals, reptiles, on the planet.... HOW DO YOU ARGUE CREATISM When EVOLUTION IS OPEN AND OBVIOUS IN ACTION AND APPLYING TO ALL CREATED?? Who gives a fuck HOW it happened. Its what you Do with it that counts...! Still, its a CHICKEN/EGG argument which exists from both angles at once - AS IS Life/Time/Space/Existence....!

INTERESTINGLY - you WILL RARELY find these properties in other animals. Usually they are ones which are "artificially bred" at an accelerated rate with relation to normal life activity on EARTH. (that is - the capacity to self destruct by inactivity rather than go hunt down a staple of life) Such as white mice from the pet store, which I have observed some of the most profound cognitive abilities I have seen in any animal inferior to humans. Even my daughters' hamsters appear to have become MENTAL GIANTS as compared to the ones I had, which were just dumb-ass rats in comparison. All you have to do is INVOLVE YOURSELF in the proximity of one of them and pay enough attention other than to effect the normal brain deafness MOST purvey, and you WILL see... IS the act of the capacity to CREATE new behavior as "natural learning sequence to variable stimulus" indeed the TRUTH of "Evolutionary Behavior"?!!?

MORE IMPORTANTLY - So much of it is about GRAND STANDING, or the NEED FOR ATTENTION and ACKNOWLEDGEMENT. It does not even matter to these participants WHAT is right or wrong...! As the same with the Hamsters standing up and doing tricks to be acknowledged, my kids acting up, and my wife just loving all eyes on her. What's the draw? IT PUTS US IN THE MOMENT SENSUAL BLISS/ Valuation by means of Market Worth Perceived, and MAKES us forget about the end game which is Death. Or more realistically - FEAR....! Its Psychological Preoccupation by design plain and simple. Preoccupation to the ultimate goal which is ACKNOWLEDGEMENT by others thus providing EMPOWERMENT as RATIONALIZATION of EXISTENCE... This is JUSTIFICATION of SUFFERANCE of FEAR. So you see now how FEAR motivates and EMPOWERS positively, if DURATION and GROWTH as an individual within a SPECIES is indeed the END GAME. Then you must wonder if the End Game is in fact "getting out of jail"... What defines a "LIFE SENTENCE" really? "Life" as a context is retained to BIOLOGICAL ACTIVITY.. I digress...:D;)

*** Back on track. Its all the same argument as to finding out there is more than one world in the Universe, and WHY CAN"T "God have made it all? And again, the answer is the same. MY GOD is Greater than YOURS. My Refrigerator is Colder. My Black Cat is Blacker.. All a conundrum of empowerment VIA Cheap means of self diluted satisfaction for Cheap souls...

The Senator from the Box Seats to The Abyss now yields the floor....

Did I tell ya the one where I wrote the movie script about our planet as an Alien Ant Farm to Service the recreational needs of a group of folks light years from here. Folks that have evolved to "non-biological existence", yet have found they still have the "need to slum in the flesh". Our lifespans being a trip to the movies for them to enjoy like a "3-D alter-reality" as a break in THEIR HUMDRUM.. Just so tired of their elevated existence that they are all craving the good old feelings of those SINZ...! They leave their "theaters" so moved its like they awoke from a dream that would never end, and all scratching their extra-terrestrial minds thinking - "MAN!!!! What a RUSH....!!!!" - LOL So it turns out we are indeed cutting edge technology all along... :rolleyes::D

You heard it here first.... AT MESO...:D


The Bill Nye-Ken Ham Debate Was a Nightmare for Science
In a much-hyped showdown, “the Science Guy” tried to defend evolution against creationist Ken Ham, and proved how slick science-deniers can be. How did the guy who’s right go so wrong?
The Bill Nye-Ken Ham Debate Was a Nightmare for Science - The Daily Beast
 
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Michael Scally MD

Doctor of Medicine
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjGkOJ5P4O0]Neil deGrasse Tyson Interview Series #2 January 18 2014 - YouTube[/ame]

BILL MOYERS: Do you give people who make this case, that that was the beginning and that there had to be something that provoked the beginning, do you give them an A at least for trying to reconcile faith and reason?

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: I don't think they're reconcilable.

BILL MOYERS: What do you mean?

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Well, so let me say that differently. All efforts that have been invested by brilliant people of the past have failed at that exercise. They just fail. And so I don't, the track record is so poor that going forward, I have essentially zero confidence, near zero confidence, that there will be fruitful things to emerge from the effort to reconcile them. So, for example, if you knew nothing about science, and you read, say, the Bible, the Old Testament, which in Genesis, is an account of nature, that's what that is, and I said to you, give me your description of the natural world based only on this, you would say the world was created in six days, and that stars are just little points of light much lesser than the sun. And that in fact, they can fall out of the sky, right, because that's what happens during the Revelation.

You know, one of the signs that the second coming, is that the stars will fall out of the sky and land on Earth. To even write that means you don't know what those things are. You have no concept of what the actual universe is. So everybody who tried to make proclamations about the physical universe based on Bible passages got the wrong answer.

So what happened was, when science discovers things, and you want to stay religious, or you want to continue to believe that the Bible is unerring, what you would do is you would say, "Well, let me go back to the Bible and reinterpret it." Then you'd say things like, "Oh, well they didn't really mean that literally. They meant that figuratively."

So, this whole sort of reinterpretation of the, how figurative the poetic passages of the Bible are came after science showed that this is not how things unfolded. And so the educated religious people are perfectly fine with that. It's the fundamentalists who want to say that the Bible is the literally, literal truth of God, that and want to see the Bible as a science textbook, who are knocking on the science doors of the schools, trying to put that content in the science room. Enlightened religious people are not behaving that way. So saying that science is cool, we're good with that, and use the Bible for, to get your spiritual enlightenment and your emotional fulfillment.

BILL MOYERS: I have known serious religious people, not fundamentalists, who were scared when Carl Sagan opened his series with the words--

CARL SAGAN from Cosmos: The cosmos is all that is or ever was or ever will be.

BILL MOYERS: I mean, that scared them, because they interpret that to mean, then if this is it, there's nothing else. No God and no life after.

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: For religious people, many people say, "Well, God is within you," or God, the, there are ways that people have shaped this, rather than, God is an old, grey-bearded man in the clouds. So if God is within you, what, I'm sure Carl would say, in you in your mind. In your mind, and we can measure the neurosynaptic firings when you have a religious experience.

We can tell you where that's happening, when it's happening, what you're feeling like at the time. So your mind of course is still within the cosmos.

BILL MOYERS: But do you have any sympathy for people who seem to feel, only feel safe in the vastness of the universe you describe in your show if they can infer a personal God who makes it more hospitable to them, cares for them?

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: In this, what we tell ourselves is a free country, which means you should have freedom of thought, I don't care what you think. I just don't. Go think whatever you want. Go ahead. Think that there's one God, two Gods, ten Gods, or no Gods. That is what it means to live in a free country. The problem arises is if you have a religious philosophy that is not based on objective realities that you then want to put in a science classroom. Then I'm going to stand there and say, "No, I'm not going to allow you in the science classroom.” I'm not telling you what to think, I'm just telling you in the science class, “You're not doing science. This is not science. Keep it out." That's where I, that's when I stand up. Otherwise, go ahead. I'm not telling you how to think.
 

Michael Scally MD

Doctor of Medicine
An opposing view; why Ken Ham won the debate would make ADMIN on Meso appear a little less biased also.

RSR Analysis of the Nye-Ham Debate
RSR Analysis of the Nye-Ham Debate | Bob Enyart Live

* Nye Backed Up Claims with Claims; Ham Wrong on Historical Science: Bob Enyart and Fred Williams critique both sides and answer Bill Nye's many wild claims with specifics and show how he repeatedly used claims to back up claims, instead of evidence to back up claims. Our Real Science Radio review also shows that Nye used a number of 30-year-old arguments that leading evolutionists themselves have rejected. We are thankful that Ken Ham put the debate in it's proper biblical context and that he shared the gospel with millions of people! When addressing science, Ken Ham tended to use evidence to back up his claims. However, below, we challenge Ken's claims about observational vs. historical science.
 

BBC3

Member
So basically RHETORICALLY ARGUING the SAME OLD HORSE SHIT, with the SAME OLD ANECDOTES...

Hmmmmm....

Sounds familiar...But then again that's what the bible is TECHNICALLY. After ALL. So much time, how to be sure WHO it even was that "God" tapped on the shoulder to convey the words to SCRIPT...!

NO LOOK AT THAT. And we WONDER WHY history REPEATS ITS SELF. When you can DOCUMENT THE EVIDENCE/EVENTS and TIME ALONE becomes a legitimate reason for Plausibility....! Shit- my asshole wife cant even remember what she did wrong two weeks ago. Whats worse is THAT SHE COULD DENY Video and Audio evidence if approached. And forget about presenting REAL FACTS.. Now that's HALF THE POPULATION....!

A show I was watching the other day I found interesting. You know. the alien conspiracy guy WITH THE WILD ASS HAIR... LOL He was proposing that Noah and his ARC was really a MAN who was conceive by "immaculate conception" (as basically alien insemination to "re-order/redesign" the species MANKIND) He was claiming that there is NO WAY you could get all these animals on a FLOATING HOUSE, and that the "Arc" was really and GENETIC SAMPLING of animals in test tubes... and With NOAH being the NEW VERSION of the ALIEN ANT FARM to re-populate...

What was more interesting is that he was translating DEAD SEA SCROLLS which were found in 1940's, and which were addressing equivalently to the activities of Noah, etc... That would be an interesting CORRELATION with other documents that were supposedly originating LONG BEFORE (Ten Commandments - ETC... ETC... And all the other LEFT OUT..!!!!!)

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/category/daily/biblical-artifacts/dead-sea-scrolls/

** So here is an excerpt from a VERY BASIC article about said which appears to confirm. The show I was referring to was History Channel 2. I doubt that this kind of conspiracy as Rhetoric for entertainment would seriously be allowed this mainstream if not bearing some WEIGHT...!

Dead Sea Scrolls

The Dead Sea Scrolls have been called the greatest manuscript find of all time. Discovered between 1947 and 1956, the Dead Sea Scrolls comprise some 800 documents but in many tens of thousands of fragments. The Scrolls date from around 250 B.C. to 68 A.D. and were written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek; they contain Biblical and apocryphal works, prayers and legal texts and sectarian documents.

This priceless collection of ancient manuscripts is invaluable to our understanding of the history of Judaism, the development of the Hebrew Bible, and the beginnings of Christianity.


SO NOW you have documents found in the 1950 era which appear to affirm the HOLY SCRIPTURES... Still hard to affirm just WHAT a "God" actually is, and WHO passed the word...

*** I made connotation the other day as to how interesting it is that Tylenol was first produced in 1954 and just after the Roswell incident. Another poster pointed out that so was Thorazine.. So what are the odds that SOMEONE KNOWS where to look for these "Dead Sea Scrolls" at the same time...!!!!! The plot thickenz....!

The BEST PART being that STILL we deny DOCUMENTATION as HISTORY DOOMED TO REPEAT.. And WHY?? IGNORANCE AGAIN - As we can afford to deny simply because we are not EDUCATED ENOUGH to read them for ourselves and therefore we can discount to service ourselves. If that's not that ultimate TEST and WARNING of LAST CHANCE. I don't know what is... Dug up out of the ground and by unknown guidance/miracle alone. Still, if some GOD or ALIEN came down and published on the internet, or even HAND DELIVERED the docs to our homes - we would even be FURTHER INCLINED to cry prank/foul..! SO scared indeed. And yet the WHOLE REASON we survive. The ultimate conundrum that MUST have our maker scratchin his fuking head...!

L........... O............L............ Humanity is DISTURBING ON MANY LEVELS INDEED...!:rolleyes::eek:


 
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nuncaquite

Member
Many, maybe even most people have a need to worship. Its explainable on some levels, inexplicable on others. But its there The guys on here that argue that in this date and time we should be past the religious voodoo stuff are not taking into account that worship is a need for some. No one and no amount of technology, insults, or learning will change this need----because its a need.

Some people on this site have some type of body image issues that motivates them to work out and gear up. No amount of tech, insults, therapy, or learning will change this need.
Not to say that worship is an issue that needs therapy. Just using body image needs to make a point.
I myself believe and worship. But, I have met many with a much stronger need than mine.
 

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