Your cruising dose poll

[Ghoul]

people push HGH on these boards like its harmless and some sort of flex, then you get kids like the guy a few months back that got acromegoly from a couple months of hgh and some peptides. People on here and pro muscle etc are so flippant about HGH, they act like 5 IU is like an ancillary like blood pressure meds or something. Just add 4 IU to your cruise and whenever its like harmless, then you get this kid who listens to all these middle aged gym bozos on these forums and ends up being disfigured and gets laughed at. Then theres are tons of idiots wasting their money with pre-diabetic blood sugar and goofy ass faces. there I said it. Even regular people are catching on and have been for a few years when Rogan and the crew grew their head sizes.



By the way, Joe Rogan has a bubble gut, is that from food? Is he eating 8 body builder meals per day? He was even keto/low carb at one point and probably still follows something similar to this day. Hes definitely not stuffing himself with clean food every meal like an IFBB pro, why does he look like a thanksgiving turkey?
I don't trust guys like Palumbo to have an unbiased opinion on what gave them X side effect, cause then they'd have to admit they did something wrong or it might go against some diet/gear principle they still preach to this day. Sure digestion has something to do with it, but I need to see the intestines measured side by side with a normal persons, maybe the intestines have more receptors there? I don't know, but if its not visceral fat or water, then its some sort of intestinal growth.

What really caught my attention, and I'll make clear this could all turn out to be wrong when the science catches up, was when Dr. Tom O'conner, a guy who's probably seen more AAS using patients than anyone, mentioned a disproportionate number of "early adopters" of BB HGH doses he's seen had uncommon cancers develop. He was careful to point out this wasn't proof of anything, just a casual observation, people get cancer all the time for unknown reasons. But what was certain was that many of them felt it was their HGH use that caused it and they suffered from deep regret over it.

God forbid any of us get some difficult to treat unusual brain tumor, but for me compounding that with "I heard high dose HGH could cause this what have I done" makes it infinitely worse than, "oh well, just some random bad luck.".

I mean if 10ius a day of the stuff made you instantly swole and rolled back the clock 20 maybe I'd risk it, but it's never even the primary PED in anyone's stack.

99% of the replacement dose level patients have proven to suffer no additional mortality for the last 30 years since they stopped getting it from corpses, so that seems reasonable enough evidence of safety for me.

 

[OldGHGuy]

Sorry gents - I created a post for this before finding this one but its relevant here also:


I'm about 6 weeks into my summer "blast" of 12 weeks
-100mg Test C pinned every 3rd day
-12.5 mg Oxandrolone 2x per day (6 weeks only - just started for last 6 weeks of blast)
-2.4 iu GH 5 on/2 off

This puts me at trough at 1200
IGF-1 of 370

55 years old
6'4, 255 lbs
Solid/muscular but no idea on bf%
Not trying to compete just battle father time, look good and have some fun in the gym while avoiding injury
Mostly TRT with a few "blasts" per year

(I realize this is less than a cruise for some of you young bucks)

Been great in the gym but holding a bunch of water, having bitchy mental sides, etc. so added .25 anastrozole after last pin two days ago. Wow - in two days my body comp and appearance has changed dramatically as well as my state of mind. I usually avoid AI but glad I jumped on this time (I was starting to blame my normally-reliable gh but it wasn't that). Normally I would have confirmed with bloods but I was 95% sure it was estrogen and I was right.

Will stay with .25 anastrozole after each pin for the remainder of the blast and drop it once I drop back down to TRT (50mg every 3rd day, no oral).

 

[Ghoul]

Sorry gents - I created a post for this before finding this one but its relevant here also:


I'm about 6 weeks into my summer "blast" of 12 weeks
-100mg Test C pinned every 3rd day
-12.5 mg Oxandrolone 2x per day (6 weeks only - just started for last 6 weeks of blast)
-2.4 iu GH 5 on/2 off

This puts me at trough at 1200
IGF-1 of 370

55 years old
6'4, 255 lbs
Solid/muscular but no idea on bf%
Not trying to compete just battle father time, look good and have some fun in the gym while avoiding injury
Mostly TRT with a few "blasts" per year

(I realize this is less than a cruise for some of you young bucks)

Been great in the gym but holding a bunch of water, having bitchy mental sides, etc. so added .25 anastrozole after last pin two days ago. Wow - in two days my body comp and appearance has changed dramatically as well as my state of mind. I usually avoid AI but glad I jumped on this time (I was starting to blame my normally-reliable gh but it wasn't that). Normally I would have confirmed with bloods but I was 95% sure it was estrogen and I was right.

Will stay with .25 anastrozole after each pin for the remainder of the blast and drop it once I drop back down to TRT (50mg every 3rd day, no oral).

Funny just started my first AI too with 6.25mg Exemestane 2x a week. Probobly the lowest dose out there but the guys here have me extremely concerned about the horrors of crashing E. We'll see how this goes on bloodwork in a few weeks. AIs seem to be going from banished to acceptable again.

 

[OldGHGuy]

Funny just started my first AI too with 6.25mg Exemestane 2x a week. Probobly the lowest dose out there but the guys here have me extremely concerned about the horrors of crashing E. We'll see how this goes on bloodwork in a few weeks. AIs seem to be going from banished to acceptable again.

At least for the first few days here, I am feeling/looking MUCH better. I know these are doses that normally require AIs for younger folks but when you get into you 50's the estrogen equation changes for sure...

 

[Ghoul]

At least for the first few days here, I am feeling/looking MUCH better. I know these are doses that normally require AIs for younger folks but when you get into you 50's the estrogen equation changes for sure...

First sign of a problem was getting teary at the Disney World castle fireworks show...

 

[Liter O' Test]

most people should be on A.I, having e2 at 50+ is not normal. gyno is not the only reason to lower e2. everyone should have e2 inside the male reference range. anyone who tells you different is an idiot and either has limited experience parroting what other people say, or so oldschool and accustomed to high e2 they dont realize how much it has effected them and probably ruined 2 marriages by now

 

[OldGHGuy]

First sign of a problem was getting teary at the Disney World castle fireworks show...

Close. I was watching Godzilla Minus One (which is actually a great movie)

 

[lukiss96]

most people should be on A.I, having e2 at 50+ is not normal. gyno is not the only reason to lower e2. everyone should have e2 inside the male reference range. anyone who tells you different is an idiot and either has limited experience parroting what other people say, or so oldschool and accustomed to high e2 they dont realize how much it has effected them and probably ruined 2 marriages by now

You say it like this applies for everyone. Some just don't need it and others like me do, if I don't take arimidex I feel like a bitch. So maybe for people like me your statement is correct. Remember there are those who feel like shit on AI and therefore are better off without it or control e2 by other means is enough for them.

 

[DECLAN]

people push HGH on these boards like its harmless and some sort of flex, then you get kids like the guy a few months back that got acromegoly from a couple months of hgh and some peptides. People on here and pro muscle etc are so flippant about HGH, they act like 5 IU is like an ancillary like blood pressure meds or something. Just add 4 IU to your cruise and whenever its like harmless, then you get this kid who listens to all these middle aged gym bozos on these forums and ends up being disfigured and gets laughed at. Then theres are tons of idiots wasting their money with pre-diabetic blood sugar and goofy ass faces. there I said it. Even regular people are catching on and have been for a few years when Rogan and the crew grew their head sizes.



By the way, Joe Rogan has a bubble gut, is that from food? Is he eating 8 body builder meals per day? He was even keto/low carb at one point and probably still follows something similar to this day. Hes definitely not stuffing himself with clean food every meal like an IFBB pro, why does he look like a thanksgiving turkey?
I don't trust guys like Palumbo to have an unbiased opinion on what gave them X side effect, cause then they'd have to admit they did something wrong or it might go against some diet/gear principle they still preach to this day. Sure digestion has something to do with it, but I need to see the intestines measured side by side with a normal persons, maybe the intestines have more receptors there? I don't know, but if its not visceral fat or water, then its some sort of intestinal growth.

The thing is like you said you don’t know? Have you seen the old olympia competitors who are still on trt and gh but downsized and now have normal gut sizes even with age, think Phil Health. If people who have actually experienced it and lived the lifestyle share their anecdotal experiences can you refute it?

Sure joe rogan has distended gut, but where are all the aids patients coming out with big bellys. I think there were guys who actually did scans after their competing careers are done and they didn’t have stomach wall growth, hearth and other organs is another story.

You need to join a more hardcore bodybuilding board like promuscle or intense muscle they have threads discussing this and you can actually interact with long time pros and trainers who actually have first hand experience.

 

[Liter O' Test]

You say it like this applies for everyone. Some just don't need it and others like me do, if I don't take arimidex I feel like a bitch. So maybe for people like me your statement is correct. Remember there are those who feel like shit on AI and therefore are better off without it or control e2 by other means is enough for them.

maybe, but i think those people are the same people who don't get bloodwork and don't dose A.I properly. they might be in some grey area where their e2 is high, but hyper respond to X A.I, but thats not an a.i problem.

Not getting bloods and figuring out a.i doesn't mean to just give up on A.I and let e2 run triple the median of the ref range. cause this type of thinking that you just brought up could cause noobs to think "guess im just one of those who don't need A.I" and disregard all a.i and estrogen talk and hear of "the e2 ratio" but in reality they just dont know wtf they are doing and
just wing it with all the sides imaginable cause they never got bloodwork and took too much asin once.

way way too many people are not controlling their e2 because people are acting like its optional and even detrimental to do so. the male brain does not function the same way at 60 e2 as it does at 20 e2

 

[lukiss96]

maybe, but i think those people are the same people who don't get bloodwork and don't dose A.I properly. they might be in some grey area where their e2 is high, but hyper respond to X A.I, but thats not an a.i problem.

Not getting bloods and figuring out a.i doesn't mean to just give up on A.I and let e2 run triple the median of the ref range. cause this type of thinking that you just brought up could cause noobs to think "guess im just one of those who don't need A.I" and disregard all a.i and estrogen talk and hear of "the e2 ratio" but in reality they just dont know wtf they are doing and
just wing it with all the sides imaginable cause they never got bloodwork and took too much asin once.

way way too many people are not controlling their e2 because people are acting like its optional and even detrimental to do so. the male brain does not function the same way at 60 e2 as it does at 20 e2

I'm on neither camp, I know that for myself AI is a must and I can't mistake high e2 sides for anything else at this point. I'm sensitive to estrogen. Bloods followed by symptoms are the way to go in my opinion. I believe everyone will eventually find out and get to know their body.

 

[Liter O' Test]

The thing is like you said you don’t know? Have you seen the old olympia competitors who are still on trt and gh but downsized and now have normal gut sizes even with age, think Phil Health. If people who have actually experienced it and lived the lifestyle share their anecdotal experiences can you refute it?

Sure joe rogan has distended gut, but where are all the aids patients coming out with big bellys. I think there were guys who actually did scans after their competing careers are done and they didn’t have stomach wall growth, hearth and other organs is another story.

You need to join a more hardcore bodybuilding board like promuscle or intense muscle they have threads discussing this and you can actually interact with long time pros and trainers who actually have first hand experience.

i just wanna know why normal guys that take gh and arent on a BB diet get turtle shells. Or why guys that dont use GH dont get it.

and yes, i can refute the things/anecdotes some of these pros and coaches say, cause these are the same guys saying they never went over a gram or didnt use tren or whatever else they can get away with saying that makes them look good.
im not arguing or against hgh or whatever, im just saying there are a lot of things that arent discussed honestly for one reason or another. could be ego or cognitive dissonance, whatever. Some grous of people throw some anecdotes around, it sounds legit, then people go down rabbit holes for awhile and we figure out it was something else entirely, wether it was intentional or not. not to mention everyone cultivates these 20 year old personas online, no one really wants to not fall in line and hurt their rep

 

[DECLAN]

i just wanna know why normal guys that take gh and arent on a BB diet get turtle shells. Or why guys that dont use GH dont get it.

and yes, i can refute the things/anecdotes some of these pros and coaches say, cause these are the same guys saying they never went over a gram or didnt use tren or whatever else they can get away with saying that makes them look good.
im not arguing or against hgh or whatever, im just saying there are a lot of things that arent discussed honestly for one reason or another. could be ego or cognitive dissonance, whatever. Some grous of people throw some anecdotes around, it sounds legit, then people go down rabbit holes for awhile and we figure out it was something else entirely, wether it was intentional or not. not to mention everyone cultivates these 20 year old personas online, no one really wants to not fall in line and hurt their rep

Let me tell you if there is a huge number of people who can attribute their bubble gut to gh use they would’ve come out and said it already. I have been around the boards for almost two decades and I haven’t seen anyone yet post turtle guts.

Everyone is on gh now its so mainstream plus these Chinese vendors make it so cheap yet not even one complaint here alone about it. Same thing in the competitive circles, guess who have bubble guts, that’s right super heavyweights, they are the crowd who push food and insulin to the ceiling to achieve mass monster status. There are no bubble guts in the physique category and those guys aren’t shy on their gh use either.

Check out the meso member pics section, find me one guy with a bubble gut will ya. The archive runs since the early 2000’s.

 

[Liter O' Test]

Let me tell you if there is a huge number of people who can attribute their bubble gut to gh use they would’ve come out and said it already. I have been around the boards for almost two decades and I haven’t seen anyone yet post turtle guts.

Everyone is on gh now its so mainstream plus these Chinese vendors make it so cheap yet not even one complaint here alone about it. Same thing in the competitive circles, guess who have bubble guts, that’s right super heavyweights, they are the crowd who push food and insulin to the ceiling to achieve mass monster status. There are no bubble guts in the physique category and those guys aren’t shy on their gh use either.

Check out the meso member pics section, find me one guy with a bubble gut will ya. The archive runs since the early 2000’s.

 

[OldGHGuy]

Wait...cant they do an MRI, ultrasound or something to prove what the hell it is, whether its brown fat or enlarged organs or whatnot?

 

[ksm2]

Can you really maintain most of your muscle at only 200 mg test? I mean if you are truly honest and dont lie to yourself.

For example, i can maintain my body at 600 mg test while eating like shit or not training for 2 weeks sometimes. Will i be able to do this with 200 mg?

 

[narta]

You should

check out the thread classic “10mg per day” on promuscle sometime. It totally changed my thoughts on TRT. Seriously, it’s an excellent thread for this topic.

Utter BS from a has been that tries to push fake "supplements" that the only research they have are from the company that produces them and that he has a vested interest in.

He even had Masters Olympia competitors on 10mg/day with nothing else and the dudes were jacked beyond human.

Just no.

 

[OldGHGuy]

Can you really maintain most of your muscle at only 200 mg test? I mean if you are truly honest and dont lie to yourself

If you're trying to win the Olympia, no. If you're a TRT or TRT+ guy in middle age just trying to look good and max workouts at the gym, yes. Its a matter a level.

I guess I will go out on a limb with a controversial statement for some: 200mg per week of Test is ALOT and should be enough, if everything else is in line including work ethic, to build and maintain muscle. 200mg per week was a cycle 30 years ago and we got really big on it. Sorry but its true.

 

[DECLAN]

Wait...cant they do an MRI, ultrasound or something to prove what the hell it is, whether its brown fat or enlarged organs or whatnot?

Somebody already did, this is not new. There has been numerous discussions about this already even among doctors for years, I don’t want to dig up all the information.

Anyway, maybe @Liter O' Test just don’t use gh if you’re scared of bubble gut or stay lean, guess who else have bubble guts, obese people.

Anyway, if you can prove that gh causes turtle shell guts then tell pfizer so they can add it to the other side effects in their leaflets.

 

[Ghoul]

I've satisfied myself that in some cases long term HGH abuse can definitely cause a permanent bubble gut, in other cases high dose HGH use can cause a temporary bubble gut.

We all agree HGH can induce acromegaly.

One symptom of acromegaly is visceromegaly.







That's permanent bubble gut.

High dose HGH frequently slows intestinal motility, in other words, food moves much more slowly through your system and as it accumulates causes a distended belly that can be reduced, temporarily, through reduced food intake.

So what we see is accurate, HGH and bubble gut is linked. In rare cases it's enlarged guts, especially the intestines, and in most it's slow digestion, which explains why it comes and goes in some HGH using bodybuilders.