Attempting to discontinue/pct after 20 months on trt

[nervje]

Honestly I didn’t have any bad side effects from serms at lower doses, it’s when I increased to 100mg clomid/40mg tamoxifen I started feeling weird, like less energy, slightly less mood, small headaches, nothing too bad. I did another blood test on today or yesterday I guess, to see if my #s improved or got worse after 1 week of high dose serms. Checking LH/FSH/TT, shoulda checked E but I’ll get my dr to test.

It’s funny tho I decided I should go back on hCG for a little while to get the balls working better since I didn’t use much when I came off trt/aas, I did 1000iu split 750/250 IM/SC..within an an hour I felt a kinda drug like mood elevation lol.

Probably the easiest way is the protocol Eman mentioned, only reason I’m planning maybe longer than the power pct is to try to recover as much function in my balls as possible. Thinking about getting triptorelin and using that if needed.

Well from what i think, wouldnt the balls get more and more function back the longer you stay off everything after pct?

I dont think my balls are going to fully work again after my 45 days of pct, but i guess they would regain the most possible function again when i dont use anymore medication after pct, like 3 or 4 months afrer i guess my balls work more than they do straight after pct?

And well, I guess waiting like a month after serms, and seeing unsufficient blood levels and trying to do another hcg/serms round isnt really helping in letting the body recover function by itself, which simply takes time?

I dont know, its just something im afraid.

 

[The Terminator]

Well from what i think, wouldnt the balls get more and more function back the longer you stay off everything after pct?

I dont think my balls are going to fully work again after my 45 days of pct, but i guess they would regain the most possible function again when i dont use anymore medication after pct, like 3 or 4 months afrer i guess my balls work more than they do straight after pct?

And well, I guess waiting like a month after serms, and seeing unsufficient blood levels and trying to do another hcg/serms round isnt really helping in letting the body recover function by itself, which simply takes time?

I dont know, its just something im afraid.

True you would eventually recover function if you completely go off, for like 90+% of men, but full recovery can take anywhere from a couple months to 24 months depending on things like age, length, I guess being Asian can lengthen time to recovery, thankfully that’s not a concern for me, I think age is the biggest factor. Also I think the recovery of hormone production might be sooner, the fertility can take a bit longer.

I guess for me I’m not patient enough or more accurately I’m too scared to wait and see. But you’re right once you go off your body still has to start functioning without help, so it’s probably going to take a little bit after pct to heal. Pct is mostly to make recovery happen a little faster than just stopping. Some drs recommend tapering clomid so the body gets used to it but who knows if this is effective.

A relative came off blast/cruise/trt a couple years ago, not sure of his pct, if he did it wasn’t aggressive, I’ll have to ask him but within a year he was recovered and is doing well. Tbh he looks better now than he did blast/cruising, just takes more effort.

 

[nervje]

True you would eventually recover function if you completely go off, for like 90+% of men, but full recovery can take anywhere from a couple months to 24 months depending on things like age, length, I guess being Asian can lengthen time to recovery, thankfully that’s not a concern for me, I think age is the biggest factor. Also I think the recovery of hormone production might be sooner, the fertility can take a bit longer.

I guess for me I’m not patient enough or more accurately I’m too scared to wait and see. But you’re right once you go off your body still has to start functioning without help, so it’s probably going to take a little bit after pct to heal. Pct is mostly to make recovery happen a little faster than just stopping. Some drs recommend tapering clomid so the body gets used to it but who knows if this is effective.

A relative came off blast/cruise/trt a couple years ago, not sure of his pct, if he did it wasn’t aggressive, I’ll have to ask him but within a year he was recovered and is doing well. Tbh he looks better now than he did blast/cruising, just takes more effort.

Tbh, at my current 150mg a week i feel awesome.
Kinda sucks to go off now because of the wellbeing i feel right now and to be honest I dont want to mentally go downhill but it is what it is.
I was eagerly waiting for my last injection and now that i have done it on tuesday, its more like an "aaaah fuck its really come to this point now".

Im not satisfied with my looks, id still like to lose some weight because i have slight love handles and a small layer of fat on my abs.
I was hoping to be able to lose it until pct but well..really hard on what to do now trainingwise, and idk if cardio is a good decision now when i come off.
I used to do easy morning cardio everyday and post workout cardio 3 or 4 times a week.
I kinda want to keep my training at the pace it is right now.
Not too much but good enough to "feel" my body if u understand.
210lbs at 5"8 right now and i dont want to lose too much of it.

Theres so many pros and cons to coming off now it fucking sucks.
Libido is high right now too, when the missus comes at night today, she can prepare herself to get her asshole eaten lol

 

[The Terminator]

Tbh, at my current 150mg a week i feel awesome.
Kinda sucks to go off now because of the wellbeing i feel right now and to be honest I dont want to mentally go downhill but it is what it is.
I was eagerly waiting for my last injection and now that i have done it on tuesday, its more like an "aaaah fuck its really come to this point now".

Im not satisfied with my looks, id still like to lose some weight because i have slight love handles and a small layer of fat on my abs.
I was hoping to be able to lose it until pct but well..really hard on what to do now trainingwise, and idk if cardio is a good decision now when i come off.
I used to do easy morning cardio everyday and post workout cardio 3 or 4 times a week.
I kinda want to keep my training at the pace it is right now.
Not too much but good enough to "feel" my body if u understand.
210lbs at 5"8 right now and i dont want to lose too much of it.

Theres so many pros and cons to coming off now it fucking sucks.
Libido is high right now too, when the missus comes at night today, she can prepare herself to get her asshole eaten lol

I felt really really good the 1st 2-3 weeks as there was still a bit left but small enough to where pct drugs where getting the testicles to work again. Honestly I think the hCG makes me feel better than Trt. You might have some ups and downs but I think eventually you’ll feel better, and imo libido is always better when the balls are functioning, even if it’s trt + hCG is better than just trt.

It might be difficult to keep mass without roids, but weight loss of course it’s possible without. Tbh I had an easier time shedding fat before trt. Of course it’s hard to keep muscle while cutting natural so I’d think cardio is ok as long as it’s not too intense. Like my cousin off roids isn’t as big, but he’s like a lean buff, more shredded, but his diet is super strict. Don’t think he even has any cheat meals ever.

 

[nervje]

I felt really really good the 1st 2-3 weeks as there was still a bit left but small enough to where pct drugs where getting the testicles to work again. Honestly I think the hCG makes me feel better than Trt. You might have some ups and downs but I think eventually you’ll feel better, and imo libido is always better when the balls are functioning, even if it’s trt + hCG is better than just trt.

It might be difficult to keep mass without roids, but weight loss of course it’s possible without. Tbh I had an easier time shedding fat before trt. Of course it’s hard to keep muscle while cutting natural so I’d think cardio is ok as long as it’s not too intense. Like my cousin off roids isn’t as big, but he’s like a lean buff, more shredded, but his diet is super strict. Don’t think he even has any cheat meals ever.

I find myself looking for peptides already to help keep size in some kind of way.
Not to mention the mental aspect of "just injecting something so i feel better".
Anybody saying roids cant have a mental addiction, is lying lol.

Its crazy really

 

[The Terminator]

I find myself looking for peptides already to help keep size in some kind of way.
Not to mention the mental aspect of "just injecting something so i feel better".
Anybody saying roids cant have a mental addiction, is lying lol.

Its crazy really

lol it can definitely be mentally addicting, both to the muscles and the way they make you feel. Just reading about people and the way they talk about how they can’t wait to go back on. I mean drug users get addicted to the act of injecting and so do roid users.

I may look into peptides, never really looked at them before but I’ve heard they can help a bit with muscles.

 

[The Terminator]

Day 35, I got T/LH/FSH checked yesterday, and did 1000iu hCG as soon as I got home cause I decided to start back up the hCG for a while and it seems like a good idea because the numbers weren’t good:

T: 175ng/dL
LH: 3.1
FSH: 3.4

Either my hypothalamus or pituitary is no good or my serms are underdosed. Would expect a couple weeks of serms with no hCG woulda had LH/FSH higher, good i guess normally but if that’s what you get with serms, prob not good. Anyway within an hour of using hCG I felt almost a drug like mood elevation, the weird foggy feel disappeared. Felt a lot better. Libido was never bad. Anyway gonna do hCG for a week or 2 and check T again to see how I respond to that. It’s like $12.95 at ulta labs for just T. The massive improvement I felt from the hCG gives me hope.

 

[nervje]

Day 35, I got T/LH/FSH checked yesterday, and did 1000iu hCG as soon as I got home cause I decided to start back up the hCG for a while and it seems like a good idea because the numbers weren’t good:

T: 175ng/dL
LH: 3.1
FSH: 3.4

Either my hypothalamus or pituitary is no good or my serms are underdosed. Would expect a couple weeks of serms with no hCG woulda had LH/FSH higher, good i guess normally but if that’s what you get with serms, prob not good. Anyway within an hour of using hCG I felt almost a drug like mood elevation, the weird foggy feel disappeared. Felt a lot better. Libido was never bad. Anyway gonna do hCG for a week or 2 and check T again to see how I respond to that. It’s like $12.95 at ulta labs for just T. The massive improvement I felt from the hCG gives me hope.

Apart from labs where we can see whats going on, I guess its fucking with our heads too much.
Id just try to live and not think (its what i try to do once im done pcting).
Do that hcg again, check bloods.

Then just do nothing, a month or two.
If libido and wellbeing isnt horrible, then dont worry.
Maybe pop a cialis here and there and just have ruthless sex, it helps let time go by.
Then you retest after those 2 months and see, if you improved "naturally".

I had my trainingpartner back then, who blast and cruise with me for the first 3 year period, although he already had cycles done before me, at the age of 18/19.
Started blast and cruise from 20 up to 23 at 500mg test a week plus other aas here and there (we were even doing 500 test e5d, so 750 a week for several months)
He stopped with a simple powerpct, and as soon as the last pill was popped, didnt give a fuck and didnt care anymore.
Still trains, lost some gains and got fatter a bit, but he eats whatever he wants.
Bloodwise, he also recovered.
Moodwise/libidowise too.
Hes always been a 2 minuteman and his girl doesnt care LOL

Youre gonna recover too, dont worry too much, im very positive about my situation too at this point.

 

[nervje]

lol it can definitely be mentally addicting, both to the muscles and the way they make you feel. Just reading about people and the way they talk about how they can’t wait to go back on. I mean drug users get addicted to the act of injecting and so do roid users.

I may look into peptides, never really looked at them before but I’ve heard they can help a bit with muscles.

Well if you ever experienced a true tren/adrol pump after a night of binge eating calories, youll never feel the same natural it is what it is hah.
And being used to such pumps for months/years, definately leaves u fucked up when u go home from a 2 hour training session and dont "feel your own body" like i do now..

 

[The Terminator]

Apart from labs where we can see whats going on, I guess its fucking with our heads too much.
Id just try to live and not think (its what i try to do once im done pcting).
Do that hcg again, check bloods.

Then just do nothing, a month or two.
If libido and wellbeing isnt horrible, then dont worry.
Maybe pop a cialis here and there and just have ruthless sex, it helps let time go by.
Then you retest after those 2 months and see, if you improved "naturally".

I had my trainingpartner back then, who blast and cruise with me for the first 3 year period, although he already had cycles done before me, at the age of 18/19.
Started blast and cruise from 20 up to 23 at 500mg test a week plus other aas here and there (we were even doing 500 test e5d, so 750 a week for several months)
He stopped with a simple powerpct, and as soon as the last pill was popped, didnt give a fuck and didnt care anymore.
Still trains, lost some gains and got fatter a bit, but he eats whatever he wants.
Bloodwise, he also recovered.
Moodwise/libidowise too.
Hes always been a 2 minuteman and his girl doesnt care LOL

Youre gonna recover too, dont worry too much, im very positive about my situation too at this point.

Yeah I don’t think I’m as bad as some of the guys who’s pct logs I followed but definitely do think about it too much. Like anytime I feel good I get paranoid I took something laced with roids lol. I’m gonna try to ignore it cause I know constant stress is bad for your hormones. Luckily my libido hasn’t disappeared, but sometimes it takes slightly longer to get a boner but I can still get it, but if I take viagra or cialis it’s back to normal, and actually kinda helps boost libido in a way cause of the increase in blood flow/boner makes me want it more lol.

But yea I’m gonna do it like you said, take hCG for awhile, retest, eventually let the body just recover on its own and not obsess over it all the time. Your friend recovering after many years of aas starting at 18 and recovering gives me hope. I just messed with my hormones indirectly with drugs when I was younger lol

Well if you ever experienced a true tren/adrol pump after a night of binge eating calories, youll never feel the same natural it is what it is hah.
And being used to such pumps for months/years, definately leaves u fucked up when u go home from a 2 hour training session and dont "feel your own body" like i do now..

Never done anadrol but I’ve been on Tren and yea I would feel the pump all over, tight hard feeling from the proviron/Masteron. My crappy workouts the last week I didn’t, but last night I could feel a pump in my chest and triceps, not like on roids but something. I guess the hCG made a difference

 

[Iron Frenchie]

You should try ashwagandha. It been shown to lower cortisol quite a bit and raise testosterone. If you’re on cycle it wouldn’t matter that much cause cortisol is already in a lowered state. But when you pct its the opposite your testosterone is low and your cortisol raises a lot. I think everyone should add it to their supplements during a pct.

“One study tested the effects of this herb on infertile men and found a 17% increase in testosterone levels and a 167% increase in sperm count (76).

In healthy men, ashwagandha increased levels by 15%. Another study found it lowered cortisol by around 25%, which may also aid testosterone”

 

[The Terminator]

You should try ashwagandha. It been shown to lower cortisol quite a bit and raise testosterone. If you’re on cycle it wouldn’t matter that much cause cortisol is already in a lowered state. But when you pct its the opposite your testosterone is low and your cortisol raises a lot. I think everyone should add it to their supplements during a pct.

“One study tested the effects of this herb on infertile men and found a 17% increase in testosterone levels and a 167% increase in sperm count (76).

In healthy men, ashwagandha increased levels by 15%. Another study found it lowered cortisol by around 25%, which may also aid testosterone”

Thanks, had no idea it was effective for T levels and fertility, I’m definitely gonna pick some up and add it to my supplement stack.

 

[weighted chinup]

I have to say, I'm disappointed at the wording of the thread title.

"Attempting to discontinue/pct after 20 months on trt"

when you could have just as easily wrote

"Attempting to terminate/pct after 20 months on trt"

Aside from that, I have nothing else to add. Good luck with recovery, I have a feeling you should bounce back smoothly.

 

[The Terminator]

I have to say, I'm disappointed at the wording of the thread title.

"Attempting to discontinue/pct after 20 months on trt"

when you could have just as easily wrote

"Attempting to terminate/pct after 20 months on trt"

Aside from that, I have nothing else to add. Good luck with recovery, I have a feeling you should bounce back smoothly.

Shit I can’t believe I didn’t think of that, and this was my 2nd title, had Millard change it from the crappy original. Anyway thanks man for the support

 

[The Terminator]

Question for you @TRT@40 or @Worf since you did hCG mono-therapy, did insurance cover it? I heard they don’t cover it when it’s added to trt, but I heard someone on another forum mention his insurance covered his FSH/hmg and hCG I think as well because his dr had hypogonadism as the reason instead of infertility.

 

[TRT@40]

For me, all 3 are covered by the insurance. But I am your Northern neighbor brother eh! I don't know how useful my datapoint is for you in US

 

[Worf]

@The Terminator
I didn’t run it through insurance. I do not know. I use a Dr but its all out of pocket. Depends on insurance from what I understand. Many will only cover hcg if it’s for fertility reasons is my understanding.

 

[AIRBORNE DADDY]

I'm in same boat trt and a 2 blasts in 16months...I'll run hcg, nolva n clomid will prolly then extend low dose clomid therapy another month. When do I start hcg and then I want yo finish hcg when I start the nolva n clomid?

 

[The Terminator]

I'm in same boat trt and a 2 blasts in 16months...I'll run hcg, nolva n clomid will prolly then extend low dose clomid therapy another month. When do I start hcg and then I want yo finish hcg when I start the nolva n clomid?

You can start the hCG within the first week of your last shot, you could even start low dose hCG while you are still on trt/aas but I’d wait till after your last shot before doing the high dose hCG. Generally you would want to be off hCG (short overlap is fine) when you start the serms, unless for example fertility was the first priority cause you’re trying to have a kid ASAP.

Are you just trying to see if you can go without trt or?

 

[AIRBORNE DADDY]

You can start the hCG within the first week of your last shot, you could even start low dose hCG while you are still on trt/aas but I’d wait till after your last shot before doing the high dose hCG. Generally you would want to be off hCG (short overlap is fine) when you start the serms, unless for example fertility was the first priority cause you’re trying to have a kid ASAP.

Are you just trying to see if you can go without trt or?

Thanks brother....yeah have hemo/hema issues even with like 160mg approx a week...tired of self phlebotomy every 6 weeks that causes high bp.... I'm going to see if I can get back 2 over 400 TT Natty.. and then reassess everything in a year or so.