Jesus christ look at the vultures coming out trying to make a sale
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Canadian Domestic: Pareto Pharmaceuticals 2017
- Thread starter ParetoPharma
- Start date
FlawlessSet
Member
seems more like an attempt to add more drama to the existing situation for no apparent reason other than nothing better to do/shit disturbing? @Wheelhouse seems to have an agenda with a brand BodyTech, thats the general consensus my mates here at meso have drawn. maybe trying to get a quarrel happening between two prominent canadian meso brands. Not sure why anoyne even replies to his irrelevant posts
That's not unreasonable.
Nor do I think I'm being unreasonable by just asking questions about dosing, specifically about mcg dosing.
I'm sure you've seen me SNAP on sources like Thunbiotech etc.
I can be a real asshole to shitty sources.
I havnt done any of that here, just asked reasonable questions in regard to the testing.
Pareto isnt just some random shit lab... its Pareto lol.
He has nothing better else to do, zero contribution to the forum, just your typical keyboard warrior. There’s an issue trying to get resolved and buddy gets a hard on stirring up the pot more. Needs to head out.
T&H
Well-known Member
Is anyone not concerned with the shilling claims posted by mods at SST? Before someone downs that site, they generally are slow to move until they have solid evidence.
While pareto may not need shilling to sell,I personally find it odd it has happened. Why would a legit company claimed by many here trust it if it needs to make fake accounts to sell more?
While pareto may not need shilling to sell,I personally find it odd it has happened. Why would a legit company claimed by many here trust it if it needs to make fake accounts to sell more?
Where’s the proof that the accounts are made by Pareto? That’s what I’m waiting to hear.
We all know though that you’re an SST dick rider. I looked at all the source accounts there and there was two other labs with tons of one post wonders.
At the end of the day I want to hear what Pareto says too.
Did you know there was accusations years back that one of the mods that’s still there favoured a lab named transpharma and may have even had financial interests in that lab.
There’s two sides to a story, his side, her side (you) and the truth usually falls somewhere in between.
I’m concerned that fuck bots like you and wheelhouse keep posting here. You just take someone’s word for everything you hear right? Lol
Juicemonkeygear
Member
Lmao his side her side (you) and the truth. That's funny. I agree the politics run deep.
In truth, the politics do run deep.
It just aggravates me when people just jump to a sources defense without the source even releasing a statement.
@LVBB , I can agree
Some guys are just going to town on Pareto without an explanation lol. the truth is USUALLY somewhere in the middle.
I'm all about fucking sources up, but.. shit does happened, sources I still use and trust have made some minor mistakes... it's all about how you respond and fix it.
Pareto said they would release a statement shortly.
Let's let that digest before jumping to conclusions... FOR or AGAINST.
T&H
Well-known Member
SST dickrider, LOL.
Most definitely, @Tiredandhot your board there reminds me of BOP. A good example would be Sparta pharma, what happened here but protected there or pganabolics here and how they were protected there. I’d be willing to bet my life savings those mods receive gear or money from sponsors, but they are looming out for our best interests here so we should believe them as the second coming of Jesus right??
Like I said, it’s looks like Pareto fucked up, and I want to hear all the facts, not just some mods word and you fucking parroting it here. Poly want a cracker?
T&H
Well-known Member
Not going to get into this immature back and forth with you. We have an ex mod on here who says what you claim doesnt happen.
I'll wait for Pareto too.
Wheelhouse
Member
No I'm not kidding fuck stick. So therefore by your logic that makes me Duncan Keith, All-Star defenseman and Stanley Cup champion of the Chicago Blackhawks.
Try again you uneducated inbred shill.
For the record I have no affiliation or invested interest with BT.
acro
Member
Despite this blip...
I'll still be ordering from Pareto in the future except, wish the prices were a bit cheaper or they have sales compared to other UGL I'm trying.
For me I prefer it to be overdosed.
I left a review for Pareto with my blood test and the bottle I was running as I'm not a shill with evidence to back up my claims.
I'll still be ordering from Pareto in the future except, wish the prices were a bit cheaper or they have sales compared to other UGL I'm trying.
For me I prefer it to be overdosed.
I left a review for Pareto with my blood test and the bottle I was running as I'm not a shill with evidence to back up my claims.
Last edited:
Yeah, hes going to address every little issue and problem.. literally everything that's been said here.
Believe him or not... like his products or not... it's a substantial response.
I question everything myself. And its definitely not unreasonable to make sure you know what you're about to put into your body is good and what it should be. And yeah I've seen your snap posts. Makes me laugh
As for this I believe theres more politics than we know for sure. So many mods have their own sites or are friends with certain labs. Who knows what or who to trust. Its a scary place in some ways. Labs go down for fake shit or shilling. So do websites, even reputable ones. Not saying SST is doing this to pareto as I have never been on SST. First time I ever heard about it was on this thread. But I do think it can (and does happen) to labs more than we think.
I trust Pareto will have a logical answer to the issue. And it will be resolved in a professional matter. They are nothing but outstanding in listening to customers and dealing with whatever is thrown at them in a proper way. Who gives a fuck if they shilled anyways. Im not going to complain about a good quality product being shilled lol. And if they got banned off of SST without hesitation I think thats retarded. Seen way worse over the years with other labs and they didn't even get a slap on the wrist
Oct 22 2019
From the Owner of Pareto:
Hello,
Tonight I turned off the newscast of the election, sighed, and opened my laptop to receive an e-mail that crushed me from a business perspective. I am here now in response to the issues that have sprung up, and I hope to clear the air. Let me first say thank you everyone who spends the time to help make the Canadian UGL scene what it is, by pushing for a higher standard from labs. I have been very busy trying to keep things running, and have not been on the forums as much as I should be, as of late. Nevertheless- here is my response in regards to the accusations that have come up, namely:
Product dosing?
SST Representative shilling?
Let me first preface this with the fact we have operated for close to EIGHT YEARS without a major issue. Zero reports of infection, no mislabeled products, and tons of blood work and third-party testing of our products. That is not to say Pareto is perfect, and the Anavar testing proves that. But adding to the previous statement: we have literally thousands of clients across the country, and a near perfect track record of client care. And when there are issues, the policy is to bend over backwards to solve the issue and go an extra mile to make the client satisfied. When I created Pareto, the basic business principles revolved around a consistent product, an extremely supportive customer care team, and expedient service. These pillars have helped to grow Pareto into one of the largest operations in Canada, today.
Pareto's volume eclipses any other Canadian source on MESO, or SST, by a large margin. This is not a dig at the competition, but rather a statement about our ability to have a record of clean operations, year after year. Seeing tonight's e-mail crushed me. This is a business I have poured my heart into over most of my adult life, and tried to push the Canadian UGL scene into a higher standard. Pareto is one of the first UGL's to use third-party HPLC testing, with publicly reported results. Other forums have banned the posting of HPLC results as a direct action against our labs directive of transparent operation. And on that page, I am fully aware of the damage caused to Pareto's reputation by my actions.
Tablet Dosing:
“One of these tests was edited by the Rep in order to falsely report the results. This test, when pulled directly from the Jano website, showed the true results indicated overdosing of an oral compound by 25-50%, with a variance between tablets of more than 20%. Unfortunately, the Rep chose to hide these results rather than address and/or correct the issue. This is especially concerning to the Moderators as the source continues to sell items labelled with microgram specific dosing, but fails to dose oral anabolics within 10mg of accuracy”
OK, so let's get into the meat of this. The most important thing here is the issue with the Anavar test report, submitted by a third party
I make Anavar 25mg per tablet, and I have done so for the last half decade. The issue brought up, is the accusation that we have no control over our dosing. The opposite is true. We have been using the same recipes for close to five years. The equipment we use for tablet manufacturing complies with GMP standard, and includes everything you need to make properly dosed products. I am not talking about TDP presses and geometric dilution- this setup consists of large volume GMP V-Blenders, powder micronizing units, and multiple GMP rotary tablet presses. Every person who is involved in the creation of Pareto products is highly educated, and I commend them on their attention to detail and work ethic.
I won't get into much detail in our injectable production, but in five years I have not had a report of debris, or uneven dispensing in our vials. We use digital machinery for mixing and dispensing all our our injectable based products- if you take 400 Testosterone Enanthate vials and lay them side to side, there should be close to ZERO variation in fill levels. In short, we have spent the money required to be one of the highest quality labs in Canada.
As for my choice to make Anavar 25mg: If you would like to see my exact recipe, you can PM me- I have no issue sharing it with a well known member. You can argue for or against this, but the logic is this. Before the days of HPLC testing- you had to trust your raw supplier. Thus, it was better to be 'safe than sorry', meaning it's better to spend a little more money and give a slightly higher dose, if there wad a chance the raw product wasn't pure. Given that this was the standard, I saw no reason to change it as time went by. Now, the forums operate one way, but the vast majority of sales are based on client feedback. The methods chosen at inception have resulted in a product that is sometimes slightly overdosed, well made, and free from risk of adverse health effects (infection, PIP, etc). I have made this my life's work, to make a product well, and create a strong brand. It's extremely frustrating to see the Pareto name dragged through the mud because of one tablet testing result.
Pareto was not always the large brand it was today, but the basic principles have remained basically unchanged since inception. Going back to the report submitted by a third party Pareto user, This explains why the first tablet is high powered. For the second, overdosed, tablet, I need to explain more about the production process.
We have multiple types of tablet presses at our warehouse, and each unit has it's pros and cons. To give a simple run down, you can compare our units to guns. Two most common assault rifles are the AK-47, and M16. The AK-47 is a very reliable weapon, and can withstand a very harsh environment without malfunction, or the need for repair. The drawback of the AK-47 is that it is less accurate that the M16. The M16 is a very accurate weapon, but is more temperamental, and more likely to fail under adverse conditions. So what does this mean for production of oral steroids?
We have units that are incredible reliable, durable, and are great for producing medium dosed tablets (5-25mg), but are less capable at handling high dose (50mg) or low dose (100 mcg) items. The reason for this is simply design. Less moving parts; no digital/computer controls, or hydraulic systems. These machines can run all day (and have been lately) with minimal repair or downtime.
For the outlier items, we have to use a more accurate and expensive machine. This is digitally controlled, and works extremely well. Now, you are probably thinking “Why don't you use this machine for everything?”
Great question. The motor on the advanced press is meant to be a 3 phase electric motor, but I had it converted into single phase. This was due to the lack of 3 phase power availability at the warehouse at the time. The result of this means we can not use the press as often as we would like due to risk of damaging the motor from the stress of running single phase. On top of this, I commissioned a specialized addition to help increase accuracy of tablet dosing. This part is prone to breaking, and creates a huge backlog when this occurs. As a result, this machine is only used for items such as Clenbuterol, T3, Viagra, Cialis, etc.
Now that you have some background on the process, I will explain what I believe to have gone wrong with the Anavar result. Anavar is mostly done in the durable tablet press. The design of this press is a powder hopper, attached to a force feeder. When the powder hopper is nearly empty, the force feeder is able to spin freely and more easily push powder into the die. The result will be a heavier tablet- it will look darker, and be harder to break in half. This does not always happen, but can on occasion. This is the only logical reason for having a tablet variance close to 20%, as we employ pharmaceutical V- blenders for mixing of our tablet mix.
When I heard about the report, the first thing I did was e-mail Janoshik and ask what the weight of the tablet was. He did not have this measurement, as his method of testing does not call for this. The reason I asked, was because I have reason to believe that the overdosed tablet was one of these “hard tablets”.
As he was unable to give me this information, I took it upon myself to investigate further. I did a check up on production with my employee who is on control of oral production, and found that upon replication of the same Anavar batch, the tail end of the tablets would be heavier and harder. I corrected the process by instructing the employee to change the settings on the machine when the hopper is at a certain fill level, and it solved the issue.
I then put my attention to the report. Here is where I will admit a huge fault, and this is against all the MESO principles which I am proud to say I earned my salt on. I believed the overdosed tablet to be a one off issue which was now solved, I chose to remove that result from the test, as chalked it up to an outlier.
On the same note, for 100mcg tablets we do use a step blending method to achieve as close as possible to proper dosing. For those who don't understand what I mean, step-blending is a multi stage process where extremely small dosage APIs can be evenly distributed into large tablets. There is a reason why Pareto makes clenbuterol and T3 in the 100mcg dosage, and it is because step blending, while effective, is not a perfect process. I would always suggest to a client that they purchase pharmaceutical grade T3, or liquid Clenbuterol from Pareto, if they need sub 50mcg doses. I stand by this statement to this day- without wet granulation, you can not be 100% accurate at the mcg dosing level.
But going back to the edited report: I don't think much needs to be said on this, as many have pointed out and shown me that this basically nullifies the entire point of testing Pareto for the history of our operations. I get it, and I agree. It's the only time I have ever opted to do this, and I realize now that I caused more drama by my unethical action.
The statement that I feared, which has become the rally call for expulsion from SST, is that I am unable to control dosing of the products. I chose to remain silent on the issue, as it is well known that among the many forum users, many are involved with other labs. I would not be surprised if some of the users in this forum were not involved in competitor operations. Hell, I would be having a field day if my biggest competition got bad press like this! But remaining silent seemed the wrong choice, as I see now. I hope my explanation lends some insight into the process we use at Pareto, and I invite any question about our production methods.
I would reckon most sources on MESO or SST have not had the experience I have had with tablet production. Hell, I don't think many of our competitors even use a tablet machine, or have built one from the ground up like I have, multiple times. I would be curious to see the results from the capsules being created on a “CAP M QUIK” which other small outfits are clearly using.
Now, for the SST issue:
Pareto has avery strong reputation as being one of the largest UGL's in Canada with a basically spot free track record. I have been mostly in charge of branding for the greater existence of Pareto, and I am very proud to see the movement we have had in this regard. At SST, one of the major sales representative's discussed with me some ideas to increase marketing, and I allowed him to proceed. I take full responsibility for my lack of oversight and the mess it has caused. I do not go on SST, so I have been updated on the situation below.
--------
This is from my Representative at the forum “SST”:
"However, one Canadian source did. Pareto Pharmaceuticals was found to have a disproportionate number of anecdotal reviews and bumps from newly created accounts, many of which are registered to proxies or mobile IPs for the apparent sole purpose of shilling. No other source on the board has a remotely similar number of reviews from newly created accounts that have not posted outside of the source thread, regardless of page views or known sales volume. A similar discovery was addressed several months ago where the source continuously deleted posts in his “source page” before responding to them with the same post in order to bump the thread to the top of the “source page” section."
“Let me state categorically that the reviews posted were legitimate reviews, from real, verifiable clients. This was the stovetop give away contest. When sending tracking I would say
"If you're happy with service and quality, I'd be grateful if you left a review at the link:
sst pareto thread link:
[redacted]
We're doing a giveaway of a cycle of Pareto items for the best stovetop pic and review"
Every one of the reviews posted can be proven to be from legitimate clients, and I am shocked that no one on SST even reached out to me for an explanation, before banning me.”
[Backstory:
The stovetop pic contest was a contest created to help boost legitimate reviews online. After an order was sent with tracking, the rep stated that a client would be able to post a review with a photo, and be entered into a contest for a cycle credit, sometime in early 2020. The issue here was that clients who solely used the forums to find sources but never post, now had incentive to do so. The result was clients who only posted in the Pareto thread, then never showed up again. This promo was cancelled as soon as the result
was seen to be this, but the damage was already done.]
“As for deleting the source page and reposting it. I was doing this because another Canadian domestic lab was doing this as well. Only sources can see this page so I did not know this was an issue for the mod team. Had I known this was against the rules, I would have ceased it immediately. I felt it was normal practice, given other labs were bumping their threads in the same manner
But as for accusations of shilling:
These are actual clients of mine, and yes most had never posted there before, but I assure you none of these were throwaway accounts that I created. All the other labs have the same thing and I never questioned that any other lab was doing this either nor did I message the mod team about it. My reasoning was, if the client was legitimate, it is OK to ask them to post a review. If a client had posted a negative review, I would have still counted it.”
-------
Now, I think my rep had good intentions, and I do believe I put pressure on him to get more response from his actively purchasing clients, so I can't fault him for trying to get results. All the review posted on SST, to the best of my knowledge, are legitimate. He knew that SST monitors IP locations of users, and that SST does not tolerate shilling.
Is asking a client to leave a review, shilling? I think it could be when you offer them incentive to do so. But was the Pareto rep creating false accounts and pumping the brand? Not at all. These were reviews from clients who purchase and use the items.
What this all comes down to: do these incidents justify the banning of a source? Pareto has been on of the longest running UGL's in Canada that exists in the public sphere. It has years of public scrutiny, and this is the first time it had really faltered. There was zero consultation or conversation with Pareto before the decision was taken, in regards to SST. I have spent nearly a decade trying to perfect our products, and it shows in the thousands of satisfied clients. I am inclined to believe that there is more to what meets the eye in regards to this decision by moderators of SST.
As for MESO: I am fully apprised that when a member that is previously unknown to the forum starts stirring up issues, my first assumption is that they are either : A new account created by competition to slander Pareto, or working with an interest in another lab. That is the reason I did not engage previously. I don't need to pull up examples of this, unless requested, but any MESO user can see multiple instances where users claiming to be non-bias are actually found to have financial motives to attack other labs. This does not take away from the situation or the seriousness, but it gives insight into the logic behind my previous silence on the matter.
Pareto has been at the forefront of the Canadian UGL scene for more than half a decade; providing high quality, safe products, and excellent customer service. We have posted all of our HPLC testing in the open for clients to discern (even the lower purity results) and make decisions from. We have a dedicated lab and team that spend full time creating the Pareto lineup of injectable and oral preparations. REDACTEDREDACTED invested into creating the best possible product, because anything less, is unacceptable. I do know that I made a mistake, and broke the trust of clients. I am not asking for a free pass here, but I think that one mistake should not disregard years and years of nearly flawless service.
Thank you for your time.
Pareto.
From the Owner of Pareto:
Hello,
Tonight I turned off the newscast of the election, sighed, and opened my laptop to receive an e-mail that crushed me from a business perspective. I am here now in response to the issues that have sprung up, and I hope to clear the air. Let me first say thank you everyone who spends the time to help make the Canadian UGL scene what it is, by pushing for a higher standard from labs. I have been very busy trying to keep things running, and have not been on the forums as much as I should be, as of late. Nevertheless- here is my response in regards to the accusations that have come up, namely:
Product dosing?
SST Representative shilling?
Let me first preface this with the fact we have operated for close to EIGHT YEARS without a major issue. Zero reports of infection, no mislabeled products, and tons of blood work and third-party testing of our products. That is not to say Pareto is perfect, and the Anavar testing proves that. But adding to the previous statement: we have literally thousands of clients across the country, and a near perfect track record of client care. And when there are issues, the policy is to bend over backwards to solve the issue and go an extra mile to make the client satisfied. When I created Pareto, the basic business principles revolved around a consistent product, an extremely supportive customer care team, and expedient service. These pillars have helped to grow Pareto into one of the largest operations in Canada, today.
Pareto's volume eclipses any other Canadian source on MESO, or SST, by a large margin. This is not a dig at the competition, but rather a statement about our ability to have a record of clean operations, year after year. Seeing tonight's e-mail crushed me. This is a business I have poured my heart into over most of my adult life, and tried to push the Canadian UGL scene into a higher standard. Pareto is one of the first UGL's to use third-party HPLC testing, with publicly reported results. Other forums have banned the posting of HPLC results as a direct action against our labs directive of transparent operation. And on that page, I am fully aware of the damage caused to Pareto's reputation by my actions.
Tablet Dosing:
“One of these tests was edited by the Rep in order to falsely report the results. This test, when pulled directly from the Jano website, showed the true results indicated overdosing of an oral compound by 25-50%, with a variance between tablets of more than 20%. Unfortunately, the Rep chose to hide these results rather than address and/or correct the issue. This is especially concerning to the Moderators as the source continues to sell items labelled with microgram specific dosing, but fails to dose oral anabolics within 10mg of accuracy”
OK, so let's get into the meat of this. The most important thing here is the issue with the Anavar test report, submitted by a third party
I make Anavar 25mg per tablet, and I have done so for the last half decade. The issue brought up, is the accusation that we have no control over our dosing. The opposite is true. We have been using the same recipes for close to five years. The equipment we use for tablet manufacturing complies with GMP standard, and includes everything you need to make properly dosed products. I am not talking about TDP presses and geometric dilution- this setup consists of large volume GMP V-Blenders, powder micronizing units, and multiple GMP rotary tablet presses. Every person who is involved in the creation of Pareto products is highly educated, and I commend them on their attention to detail and work ethic.
I won't get into much detail in our injectable production, but in five years I have not had a report of debris, or uneven dispensing in our vials. We use digital machinery for mixing and dispensing all our our injectable based products- if you take 400 Testosterone Enanthate vials and lay them side to side, there should be close to ZERO variation in fill levels. In short, we have spent the money required to be one of the highest quality labs in Canada.
As for my choice to make Anavar 25mg: If you would like to see my exact recipe, you can PM me- I have no issue sharing it with a well known member. You can argue for or against this, but the logic is this. Before the days of HPLC testing- you had to trust your raw supplier. Thus, it was better to be 'safe than sorry', meaning it's better to spend a little more money and give a slightly higher dose, if there wad a chance the raw product wasn't pure. Given that this was the standard, I saw no reason to change it as time went by. Now, the forums operate one way, but the vast majority of sales are based on client feedback. The methods chosen at inception have resulted in a product that is sometimes slightly overdosed, well made, and free from risk of adverse health effects (infection, PIP, etc). I have made this my life's work, to make a product well, and create a strong brand. It's extremely frustrating to see the Pareto name dragged through the mud because of one tablet testing result.
Pareto was not always the large brand it was today, but the basic principles have remained basically unchanged since inception. Going back to the report submitted by a third party Pareto user, This explains why the first tablet is high powered. For the second, overdosed, tablet, I need to explain more about the production process.
We have multiple types of tablet presses at our warehouse, and each unit has it's pros and cons. To give a simple run down, you can compare our units to guns. Two most common assault rifles are the AK-47, and M16. The AK-47 is a very reliable weapon, and can withstand a very harsh environment without malfunction, or the need for repair. The drawback of the AK-47 is that it is less accurate that the M16. The M16 is a very accurate weapon, but is more temperamental, and more likely to fail under adverse conditions. So what does this mean for production of oral steroids?
We have units that are incredible reliable, durable, and are great for producing medium dosed tablets (5-25mg), but are less capable at handling high dose (50mg) or low dose (100 mcg) items. The reason for this is simply design. Less moving parts; no digital/computer controls, or hydraulic systems. These machines can run all day (and have been lately) with minimal repair or downtime.
For the outlier items, we have to use a more accurate and expensive machine. This is digitally controlled, and works extremely well. Now, you are probably thinking “Why don't you use this machine for everything?”
Great question. The motor on the advanced press is meant to be a 3 phase electric motor, but I had it converted into single phase. This was due to the lack of 3 phase power availability at the warehouse at the time. The result of this means we can not use the press as often as we would like due to risk of damaging the motor from the stress of running single phase. On top of this, I commissioned a specialized addition to help increase accuracy of tablet dosing. This part is prone to breaking, and creates a huge backlog when this occurs. As a result, this machine is only used for items such as Clenbuterol, T3, Viagra, Cialis, etc.
Now that you have some background on the process, I will explain what I believe to have gone wrong with the Anavar result. Anavar is mostly done in the durable tablet press. The design of this press is a powder hopper, attached to a force feeder. When the powder hopper is nearly empty, the force feeder is able to spin freely and more easily push powder into the die. The result will be a heavier tablet- it will look darker, and be harder to break in half. This does not always happen, but can on occasion. This is the only logical reason for having a tablet variance close to 20%, as we employ pharmaceutical V- blenders for mixing of our tablet mix.
When I heard about the report, the first thing I did was e-mail Janoshik and ask what the weight of the tablet was. He did not have this measurement, as his method of testing does not call for this. The reason I asked, was because I have reason to believe that the overdosed tablet was one of these “hard tablets”.
As he was unable to give me this information, I took it upon myself to investigate further. I did a check up on production with my employee who is on control of oral production, and found that upon replication of the same Anavar batch, the tail end of the tablets would be heavier and harder. I corrected the process by instructing the employee to change the settings on the machine when the hopper is at a certain fill level, and it solved the issue.
I then put my attention to the report. Here is where I will admit a huge fault, and this is against all the MESO principles which I am proud to say I earned my salt on. I believed the overdosed tablet to be a one off issue which was now solved, I chose to remove that result from the test, as chalked it up to an outlier.
On the same note, for 100mcg tablets we do use a step blending method to achieve as close as possible to proper dosing. For those who don't understand what I mean, step-blending is a multi stage process where extremely small dosage APIs can be evenly distributed into large tablets. There is a reason why Pareto makes clenbuterol and T3 in the 100mcg dosage, and it is because step blending, while effective, is not a perfect process. I would always suggest to a client that they purchase pharmaceutical grade T3, or liquid Clenbuterol from Pareto, if they need sub 50mcg doses. I stand by this statement to this day- without wet granulation, you can not be 100% accurate at the mcg dosing level.
But going back to the edited report: I don't think much needs to be said on this, as many have pointed out and shown me that this basically nullifies the entire point of testing Pareto for the history of our operations. I get it, and I agree. It's the only time I have ever opted to do this, and I realize now that I caused more drama by my unethical action.
The statement that I feared, which has become the rally call for expulsion from SST, is that I am unable to control dosing of the products. I chose to remain silent on the issue, as it is well known that among the many forum users, many are involved with other labs. I would not be surprised if some of the users in this forum were not involved in competitor operations. Hell, I would be having a field day if my biggest competition got bad press like this! But remaining silent seemed the wrong choice, as I see now. I hope my explanation lends some insight into the process we use at Pareto, and I invite any question about our production methods.
I would reckon most sources on MESO or SST have not had the experience I have had with tablet production. Hell, I don't think many of our competitors even use a tablet machine, or have built one from the ground up like I have, multiple times. I would be curious to see the results from the capsules being created on a “CAP M QUIK” which other small outfits are clearly using.
Now, for the SST issue:
Pareto has avery strong reputation as being one of the largest UGL's in Canada with a basically spot free track record. I have been mostly in charge of branding for the greater existence of Pareto, and I am very proud to see the movement we have had in this regard. At SST, one of the major sales representative's discussed with me some ideas to increase marketing, and I allowed him to proceed. I take full responsibility for my lack of oversight and the mess it has caused. I do not go on SST, so I have been updated on the situation below.
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This is from my Representative at the forum “SST”:
"However, one Canadian source did. Pareto Pharmaceuticals was found to have a disproportionate number of anecdotal reviews and bumps from newly created accounts, many of which are registered to proxies or mobile IPs for the apparent sole purpose of shilling. No other source on the board has a remotely similar number of reviews from newly created accounts that have not posted outside of the source thread, regardless of page views or known sales volume. A similar discovery was addressed several months ago where the source continuously deleted posts in his “source page” before responding to them with the same post in order to bump the thread to the top of the “source page” section."
“Let me state categorically that the reviews posted were legitimate reviews, from real, verifiable clients. This was the stovetop give away contest. When sending tracking I would say
"If you're happy with service and quality, I'd be grateful if you left a review at the link:
sst pareto thread link:
[redacted]
We're doing a giveaway of a cycle of Pareto items for the best stovetop pic and review"
Every one of the reviews posted can be proven to be from legitimate clients, and I am shocked that no one on SST even reached out to me for an explanation, before banning me.”
[Backstory:
The stovetop pic contest was a contest created to help boost legitimate reviews online. After an order was sent with tracking, the rep stated that a client would be able to post a review with a photo, and be entered into a contest for a cycle credit, sometime in early 2020. The issue here was that clients who solely used the forums to find sources but never post, now had incentive to do so. The result was clients who only posted in the Pareto thread, then never showed up again. This promo was cancelled as soon as the result
was seen to be this, but the damage was already done.]
“As for deleting the source page and reposting it. I was doing this because another Canadian domestic lab was doing this as well. Only sources can see this page so I did not know this was an issue for the mod team. Had I known this was against the rules, I would have ceased it immediately. I felt it was normal practice, given other labs were bumping their threads in the same manner
But as for accusations of shilling:
These are actual clients of mine, and yes most had never posted there before, but I assure you none of these were throwaway accounts that I created. All the other labs have the same thing and I never questioned that any other lab was doing this either nor did I message the mod team about it. My reasoning was, if the client was legitimate, it is OK to ask them to post a review. If a client had posted a negative review, I would have still counted it.”
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Now, I think my rep had good intentions, and I do believe I put pressure on him to get more response from his actively purchasing clients, so I can't fault him for trying to get results. All the review posted on SST, to the best of my knowledge, are legitimate. He knew that SST monitors IP locations of users, and that SST does not tolerate shilling.
Is asking a client to leave a review, shilling? I think it could be when you offer them incentive to do so. But was the Pareto rep creating false accounts and pumping the brand? Not at all. These were reviews from clients who purchase and use the items.
What this all comes down to: do these incidents justify the banning of a source? Pareto has been on of the longest running UGL's in Canada that exists in the public sphere. It has years of public scrutiny, and this is the first time it had really faltered. There was zero consultation or conversation with Pareto before the decision was taken, in regards to SST. I have spent nearly a decade trying to perfect our products, and it shows in the thousands of satisfied clients. I am inclined to believe that there is more to what meets the eye in regards to this decision by moderators of SST.
As for MESO: I am fully apprised that when a member that is previously unknown to the forum starts stirring up issues, my first assumption is that they are either : A new account created by competition to slander Pareto, or working with an interest in another lab. That is the reason I did not engage previously. I don't need to pull up examples of this, unless requested, but any MESO user can see multiple instances where users claiming to be non-bias are actually found to have financial motives to attack other labs. This does not take away from the situation or the seriousness, but it gives insight into the logic behind my previous silence on the matter.
Pareto has been at the forefront of the Canadian UGL scene for more than half a decade; providing high quality, safe products, and excellent customer service. We have posted all of our HPLC testing in the open for clients to discern (even the lower purity results) and make decisions from. We have a dedicated lab and team that spend full time creating the Pareto lineup of injectable and oral preparations. REDACTEDREDACTED invested into creating the best possible product, because anything less, is unacceptable. I do know that I made a mistake, and broke the trust of clients. I am not asking for a free pass here, but I think that one mistake should not disregard years and years of nearly flawless service.
Thank you for your time.
Pareto.
This is our product. Years and years of day in day out tinkering and modifying recipes, methods, procedures, design- to bring the best possible oral and injectable preparations to our clients.
Thanks for reading, and if you have any questions, I will be around extensively the next little while to sort any issues out.
Thanks for reading, and if you have any questions, I will be around extensively the next little while to sort any issues out.
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