DNP at low body fat percentage

[RzSco]

I just used DNP for 2 weeks to lose about 5kg and go from 15-16% to 10-12%. My attempts at bulking once again resulted in only fat gain despite my best efforts.

Problem is I still have a lot of fat on my belly and love handles such that my abs are only faintly visible when not flexing, but meanwhile I have veins all over my arms, delts and quads.

I'm not really sure how to proceed now.

1. Do another DNP 400mg for 2 weeks and expect my fat distribution to sort itself out on its own by going to 6-8% bf.

2. Do a low dose DNP (like 100-200mg) + Anavar cycle for 4-6 weeks and hope that the Anavar will target the fat around my waist selectively?

3. Just pay for 3D liposuction on the problem area since the rest of my body already looks pretty good?

 

[RzSco]

It’s about being able to get yourself into the zone. Imagine Kobe Bryant at a basketball game. Nothing could snap his attention away from what he was doing.

You need to lock in and learn to harness it. I’m not pumped to the gills with adrenaline for every set. But I can hype myself up and snap into attack mode when need be.

It isn’t a state that you want to be in your entire workout. I describe it as a focused aggression. If I’m going all out every set I’ll get to movement number 3-4 or 5 and be done and sloppily doing it.

Only reason I got an adrenaline rush this time is that my girlfriend burned herself and screamed like she was dying, so once I realised it wasn't serious I went to do pull ups instead of comforting her. I think that probably says everything about how much this means to me.

I can't replicate that rush without some kind of emergency panic feeling though.

Steroids does not increase our intensity of our lifts. Just the weight that we push and how long we can keep that intensity going.

It definitely increases the response

I agree with this, it's mainly a distinction between CNS and the local energy systems in muscles. Adrenaline can boost your CNS only whereas steroids boost the local systems - same effect different mechanisms

 

[Pineapples4Puss]

Eh, fuck it, roast me. 188 lbs in this photo.

I don't have any pics of when I started lifting (132 lbs and probably 15-20% body fat) or the time before that when I was very fat (210 lbs and 40-50% body fat) unfortunately.

I probably have Klinefelter syndrome or something. Wide hips, narrow shoulders, horrible fat distribution, clinically low natty testosterone levels, tiny bone structure, and extreme difficulty to gain muscle beyond where I am now.

As I said in the other thread, when I started lifting I had 11 inch arms and couldn't even bench press an empty 7 foot bar for one rep, now I do 80 kg and my arms are 15 inches. I made a lot of progress but it's just from super shit to regular shit.

Bro what are you on about?? You look better than 85-90% of people on the planet earth.

Like what always hungry said I was expecting something way worse..

You for sure need some mass on your frame. Mass as in quality tissue. If you focused on dieting correctly and adding on some quality lbs of muscle while staying close to the leanness you are now you’d look night and day different imo.

You don’t have problem fat areas you have under developed areas.

Focus on widening your back, chest and shoulders while slamming your legs. You can build a great physique from where you are now.

 

[Blang]

This 100% tells me the following

No matter how intensely you think you train, you're not training with enough intensity

Your diet is not designed properly. Plain and simple

You're not focused enough on optimizing sleep and minimizing stress

Do not argue these things. Once you accept them and take serious action to correct them, you will see results.

Do yourself a favor, hire a coach. There's tons out there. Go on ig, find competitors who are good amateurs, check their posts and see who their coaches are. I don't care if you don't want to be a competitor, you don't have to be, but those coaches will know much better than you how to build muscle and mitigate fat accumulation.

This x 1000. A coach that you trust will be the only person who can correct these things, without that dynamic you will spin your wheels forever, I promise.

 

[TheRingloVale]

Only reason I got an adrenaline rush this time is that my girlfriend burned herself and screamed like she was dying, so once I realised it wasn't serious I went to do pull ups instead of comforting her. I think that probably says everything about how much this means to me.

I can't replicate that rush without some kind of emergency panic feeling though.



I agree with this, it's mainly a distinction between CNS and the local energy systems in muscles. Adrenaline can boost your CNS only whereas steroids boost the local systems - same effect different mechanisms

No, some steroids activate that adrenaline response too. It's called andernergic signaling and it activates that fight or flight response. It's why some steroids, such as tren, make it hard to sleep - you're always in that "on" mode.

 

[RzSco]

Daily supplements stack:

Ashwaganda 500 mg
COQ10 100 mg

Beta Carotene 7.5 mg
Vit C 500 mg
Vit E 250 mg

Probiotics 25 billions
Curcumin 500 mg
Milk Thistle 450mg
Celery seed extract 100 mg

Zinc 15 mg
Magnesium 375 mg
Iodine 225 mcg
Calcium 750 mg
Boron 3 mg
Iron 15 mg

D3 125 mcg
K2 180 mcg

Creatine 5g
Taurine 5g
Glycine 5-10g


I also attached a photo of the daily data I can gather from my diet spreadsheet, hopefully the headings are obvious. I just have to type in what I eat and how many grams and all this is calculated automatically.

My diet is not that consistent from day to day and my macro ratios are getting messed up by the cost of living crisis (lean meat is literally unaffordable now as a diet staple for most people in UK) so all these chicken thighs are meaning an excessive amount of dietary fat I can't get away from.

Example of the kind of batch cooked slow cooker meal I mostly eat (6 portions, ~600 calories per portion, quantities in grams):

Chicken Thighs 2000
Tomato puree 50
stock cube 10
bacon 250
onion 200
mushroom 400
lentils 150
flour 30
Oil 30

Macro ratio here is 35% fat,45% protein, 20% carbs. Again because of the chicken thighs being fat. I do trim them as much as I can but the fat is in the muscle too.

 

[Inspired]

Daily supplements stack:

Ashwaganda 500 mg
COQ10 100 mg

Beta Carotene 7.5 mg
Vit C 500 mg
Vit E 250 mg

Probiotics 25 billions
Curcumin 500 mg
Milk Thistle 450mg
Celery seed extract 100 mg

Zinc 15 mg
Magnesium 375 mg
Iodine 225 mcg
Calcium 750 mg
Boron 3 mg
Iron 15 mg

D3 125 mcg
K2 180 mcg

Creatine 5g
Taurine 5g
Glycine 5-10g


I also attached a photo of the daily data I can gather from my diet spreadsheet, hopefully the headings are obvious. I just have to type in what I eat and how many grams and all this is calculated automatically.

My diet is not that consistent from day to day and my macro ratios are getting messed up by the cost of living crisis (lean meat is literally unaffordable now as a diet staple for most people in UK) so all these chicken thighs are meaning an excessive amount of dietary fat I can't get away from.

Example of the kind of batch cooked slow cooker meal I mostly eat (6 portions, ~600 calories per portion, quantities in grams):

Chicken Thighs 2000
Tomato puree 50
stock cube 10
bacon 250
onion 200
mushroom 400
lentils 150
flour 30
Oil 30

Macro ratio here is 35% fat,45% protein, 20% carbs. Again because of the chicken thighs being fat. I do trim them as much as I can but the fat is in the muscle too.

Chicken has a lot of polyunsaturated fatty acids, so you have to be aware that those PUFA's really can be problematic. I would continue to eat the chicken because it's good protein and you like it, but you should be aware of that.

I would try and get more calcium in addition to the supplement. Milk is good because it has the proper phosphorus to calcium ratio, which helps absorption and helps actually build bone.

You should eat 2-4 eggs per day, minimum.

Do you eat liver? You need vitamin A and you need all of the b vitamins.

I would get a good multivitamin because you need everything that is inside of one.

Separately, I would:

Increase vitamin C in any way you can. Preferably 2-4g spread out per day. I use sodium Ascorbate.

Drop the iron.

Double the zinc. Use zinc bisglycinate.
Add copper bisglycinate. Take 4-10mg.
Increase Boron from 3mg to 6-9mg.

Increase the Iodine. You can use Lugol's and throw a drop or more in your drink, every day or a few times per week. You have to be careful with Iodine but overall, it's really important so it's worth getting into it.

You need selenium 400mcg per day.

I have to think of more stuff the little adjustments I mentioned so far can make a big difference.

 

[RzSco]

I will look into that. I already drink a lot of milk. No idea where liver is in the supermarket but I will see if it's available.

All my iron markers are low, see attached image, sure I should not take iron?

 

[Inspired]

I will look into that. I already drink a lot of milk. No idea where liver is in the supermarket but I will see if it's available.

All my iron markers are low, see attached image, sure I should not take iron?

Iron is difficult to measure because a person can have very low blood numbers (like you have) but extremely high iron stored in the tissues. Since you mentioned you have a vegetarian background, maybe you don't have as much iron accumulation. So, continue to take iron, but you would be better off getting iron from food sources, like red meat and liver. What product formulation do you take?

 

[RzSco]

Iron is difficult to measure because a person can have very low blood numbers (like you have) but extremely high iron stored in the tissues. Since you mentioned you have a vegetarian background, maybe you don't have as much iron accumulation. So, continue to take iron, but you would be better off getting iron from food sources, like red meat and liver. What product formulation do you take?

I should also mention that my HCT was 49.8%.
Mineral supplement is this one, it actually has some selenium but not much.

Holland & Barrett High Strength Super Multi Mineral (including Iodine) 90 Tablets | Holland & Barrett

Holland & Barrett Super MultiMineral Tablets feature a unique formulation of major and trace minerals for those individuals who may not receive enough through diet alone, and contains calcium, chromium, copper, iodine, iron, magnesium, manganese, phosphorous, potassium, selenium, zinc & boron.

www.hollandandbarrett.com

 

[Deadp007]

What's your estrogen level? It has that pesky female fat dispersal attribute that pisses us dewdz off. But full honesty---idk what the lab value would mean in real life applications. Maybe @Type-IIx will chime in...

 

[RzSco]

Dumping my most recent bloods. This was on 500 mg of test.

Biomarker​	Result​	Normal Range​	Unit​
Alanine Aminotransferase (ALT)​	30​	0 - 50​	U/L​
Albumin​	41.7​	35 - 50​	g/L​
Alkaline Phosphatase (ALP)​	63​	30 - 130​	IU/L​
Cortisol (9am)​	443​	166 - 507​	nmol/L​
Creatinine​	103​	59 - 104​	umol/L​
Ferritin​	63.3​	30 - 400​	ug/L​
Gamma GT​	16​	8 - 61​	U/L​
Globulin​	33.8​	19 - 35​	g/L​
HDL​	1.1​	1.1 <​	mmol/L​
HDL % of Total Cholesterol​	26.5​	20 <​	%​
Haematocrit (HCT)​	0.487​	0.38 - 0.5​	L/L​
Haemoglobin​	161​	130 - 170​	g/L​
Iron​	12.1​	5.8 - 34.5​	umol/L​
LDL​	2.78​	0 - 3​	mmol/L​
Magnesium (serum)​	0.9​	0.7 - 1​	mmol/L​
Oestradiol (Oestrogen)​	207​	41 - 159​	pmol/L​
Red Blood Cell (RBC)​	5.13​	4.4 - 5.8​	x10^12/L​
Testosterone (total)​	93.4​	8.64 - 29​	nmol/L​
Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH)​	1.74​	0.27 - 4.2​	mU/L​
Thyroxine (T4, free direct)​	12.4​	12 - 22​	pmol/L​
Total Cholesterol​	4.15​	0 - 5​	mmol/L​
Total Protein​	75.5​	60 - 80​	g/L​
Transferrin Saturation​	15.4​	20 - 50​	%​
Triglycerides​	0.6​	0 - 1.7​	mmol/L​
Triiodothyronine (T3, free)​	5.39​	3.1 - 6.8​	pmol/L​
Urea​	5.5​	2.5 - 7.8​	mmol/L​
Uric Acid​	380​	200 - 430​	umol/L​
White Blood Cell Count (WBC)​	3.8​	3 - 10​	x10^9/L​
eGFR​	84​	60 <​	ml/min/1.73m2​

 

[Blang]

Go ahead and ignore Inspired, he's just throwing around a bunch of shit that can't and shouldn't be determined without accurately tracking your micronutrient intake (use Cronometer) and bloodwork.

 

[Inspired]

Go ahead and ignore Inspired, he's just throwing around a bunch of shit that can't and shouldn't be determined without accurately tracking your micronutrient intake (use Cronometer) and bloodwork.

Who the hell are you? I think everyone should go ahead and ignore you, officially, since you have nothing to offer and you want to be a dirtbag about it.

 

[Pineapples4Puss]

Who the hell are you? I think everyone should go ahead and ignore you, officially, since you have nothing to offer and you want to be a dirtbag about it.

He’s right. He could have said it in a better way but he wasn’t that dirt bag ish lol. There is no point in supplementing half the things you listed.

He should focus on getting his micronutrients from food and then figure out what he needs and is lacking.

For your iron try increasing citrus which will increase the absorption rate of iron and b12 will help raise it as well.

My daily supplements are vitamin b12, 4 caps of fish oil, magnesium, celery seed, red rice yeast extract, and vitamin D.

Focus on eating fortified foods for your iron levels and throw some fruits in specifically citrus. You seem to eat a decent amount of veggies already just be sure to add variety.

 

[Inspired]

He’s right. He could have said it in a better way but he wasn’t that dirt bag ish lol. There is no point in supplementing half the things you listed.

He should focus on getting his micronutrients from food and then figure out what he needs and is lacking.

For your iron try increasing citrus which will increase the absorption rate of iron and b12 will help raise it as well.

My daily supplements are vitamin b12, 4 caps of fish oil, magnesium, celery seed, red rice yeast extract, and vitamin D.

Focus on eating fortified foods for your iron levels and throw some fruits in specifically citrus. You seem to eat a decent amount of veggies already just be sure to add variety.

How old are you? Aren't you some kid in their 20's? So what do you know about nutrition exactly? You have a lot to learn.

Dude, iron from fortified food is garbage. You need heme iron. Eat liver or meat.

Magnesium: type and dosage?
Fish oil is toxic. Read about PUFA's.
Type of B12, methylated or regular cobalamin?
Red yeast rice? Why? Cholesterol is good for you.
Vitamin D: how much? Why no vitamin K nor Magnesium nor boron? Reconsider.

 

[RzSco]

He should focus on getting his micronutrients from food and then figure out what he needs and is lacking.

I think @Inspired has a point that produce these days is grown in a very intensive way in nutrient-depleted soils using fertilizer to maintain productivity. The crops grown in this way can't have anywhere near the nutritional value of naturally grown ones from pre-industrial farming.

Of course I could buy all organic, high quality food but this will:

A) financially destroy me, moreso than buying supplements
B) may not be much better, organic doesn't mean no fertiliser or intensive farming

 

[Pineapples4Puss]

How old are you? Aren't you some kid in their 20's? So what do you know about nutrition exactly? You have a lot to learn.

Dude, iron from fortified food is garbage. You need heme iron. Eat liver or meat.

Magnesium: type and dosage?
Fish oil is toxic. Read about PUFA's.
Type of B12, methylated or regular cobalamin?
Red yeast rice? Why? Cholesterol is good for you.
Vitamin D: how much? Why no vitamin K nor Magnesium nor boron? Reconsider.

I know the dosages I take are enough and can’t comment off the top of my head what they are exactly. Nor the type. I bought them after learning about what I’m lacking in my diet that’s it. Take t

He just said he can’t afford meat in his current situation in the UK. Obviously not going to suggest it.

Take my 6 years of schooling and 7 years working in the medical field next to doctors and surgeons into consideration and suck my dick.

 

[Rido]

Take my 6 years of schooling and 7 years working in the medical field next to doctors and surgeons into consideration and suck my dick.

It's all a big lie and setup. The government wants you nutrient deficient to weaken you and control your mind.

 

[Inspired]

I know the dosages I take are enough and can’t comment off the top of my head what they are exactly. Nor the type. I bought them after learning about what I’m lacking in my diet that’s it. Take t

He just said he can’t afford meat in his current situation in the UK. Obviously not going to suggest it.

Take my 6 years of schooling and 7 years working in the medical field next to doctors and surgeons into consideration and suck my dick.

That was uncalled for, wasn't it? You can't even answer the questions. Then you resort to insults.

You make a weak appeal to authority, and that is supposed to.......do what? There's nothing special about doctors and surgeons. They are regular people (and often, they are dumb and so outdated that the average redditor retard knows far more information than they do). If you are in the field, you know it or will know it). They don't teach any nutritional information in medical school, unless that suddenly changed in the last few years. Allopathic medicine doesn't care about nutrition.

 

[Pineapples4Puss]

That was uncalled for, wasn't it? You can't even answer the questions. Then you resort to insults.

You make a weak appeal to authority, and that is supposed to.......do what? There's nothing special about doctors and surgeons. They are regular people (and often, they are dumb and so outdated that the average redditor retard knows far more information than they do). If you are in the field, you know it or will know it). They don't teach any nutritional information in medical school, unless that suddenly changed in the last few years. Allopathic medicine doesn't care about nutrition.

What question can I not answer? You started the insults? Im not trying to create any authority what so ever. I’m nobody. But it doesn’t change what I know. You’re over complicating what this guy needs. I’m not wasting my time going into my regime or turning the thread about what I do. I gave my recommendations for his situation and included what I do. His supplementation has 0 to do with his physique.


He doesn’t need to throw 15 different supplements in when he can’t even afford to eat properly. Don’t waste the money and buy quality food when you can.

I’m in a nutrition class now and have 3 more to take.

Yes many doctors are idiots not all. Same with any job. I am with old, freshly graduated, residents, students and fellows. i run into the entire spectrum. Including one who did a fellow ship in nutrition.

At the end of the day the entire point is focus on food first not supplements.