First cycle for athlete

[freakspeed]

What's good fellas,

This is my second post on this forum. So far everyone has been very welcoming, and no-nonsense, which I greatly appreciate.

I'm a college basketball player in the NCAA.

I'm 20 years old, and I have 5-6 years of training experience under instruction. Mainly performance training like vertical jump, speed, and endurance type work with alot of heavy compound movement variations.
(Before anyone jumps in saying I'm too young, please read the whole post)

I have the opportunity today, for the next few years to achieve certain things athletically that I will not have the chance to do ever again. I have set lofty goals for myself, and I'm willing to do anything to reach them. I don't want to look back 15-20 years from now and have regrets. I hope you all can respect that. In addition, after my playing days are over, I do not have interest in using AAS at that time.

Anyways....

I'm 6'4 barefoot, 6'8 wingspan, 195lbs 10% bodyfat. Bench 225, Squat 315, Deadlift 315. Vertical Jump 34 inches.(Not impressive numbers I'm sure to those of you who are using anabolics, however for my sport these are above average)

As far as my diet, I have been under a pretty strict diet since I was 14. I was fortunate enough to be training with a performance coach at that time who provided all the info I needed to be consuming nutrient dense foods.(At the time I was on a variation of the Paleo diet, mainly lean meat and vegetables with a few vitamins and an omega 3 supplement). I've slightly adjusted slightly now that I'm in college, and at some points late in the night I have to resort to junk every once in a while after late night training, and unfortunately I've had to use whey protein(Total waste but hey, it's team provided & I do not turn down free shit.) Options can be limited when getting out of practice late at night when almost everything is closed.

I have been wanting to use anabolics as a means to enhance my workouts, and get an edge for the upcoming season and beyond. My main goal is to gain as much explosive power and strength as I can without gaining a large amount of non-functional weight before I head back to school. I believe this will translate with my proper training, and diet to increases in my vertical jump/speed, endurance, performance variables, etc. If you disagree with that assessment, please explain why. In addition, I'd like to be able to keep as much of the gains as possible. I read somewhere certain compounds allow you to keep more gains than others (Random note:I will not be subject to random testing whilst I am back home for the summer) In addition, when I am back home my diet is near-optimal and the combination of these factors makes it ideal for me to do this in the next few months till the end of the summer.

I spoke with @TANGO.ECHO.KILO yesterday via chat, and we had a discussion about what I should start with. If you are a current/former athlete or experienced AAS user, please feel free to jump in and share your thoughts.

Test-Prop
Winstrol or Anavar
With an AI to prevent estrogen conversion.
(Unsure of dosages)

I also read that a combo of Clomid/Nolvadex for PCT
(Also don't know about the dosage here)

I am unsure on what the dosages should be, as our conversation was in chat, and thus wasn't saved. I would definitely prefer lower dosages, both to keep weight down and prevent sides.

Apart from the estrogen conversion, are there any other sides that I should be concerned about?
I know that the anti-steroid community spreads a lot of misinformation out there, so I hope some of you can clear this up.
Also with regards to natural test production being shut down....when I have completed PCT, will this affect my ability to have an erection, train, etc or will everything be back to normal?

I hope some of you can share your knowledge/experience with me and point me in the right direction so I can go about this the safe way and accomplish my goals.

Thanks in advance y'all.

 

[Perrin Aybara]

This is a good place to start reading up on various compounds.

Steroid Profiles

The stickies in this section are a good place to start on PCT.

Steroid Post Cycle Therapy and ASIH Treatment

Besides estrogen sides keeping an eye on your hematocrit through bloodwork is important. AAS raises red blood cell count and thick blood can cause a lot of serious cardiovascular problems. Here's a good thread on bloodwork getting bloods done.

The Basics of Ordering Bloodwork

As far as other, more specific advice for someone in your position someone else more experienced will need to chime in. I've only done a test/dbol cycle and I'm a powerlifter, so my experience is limited.

 

[TANGO.ECHO.KILO]

I think one of the biggest factors here is you need to be able to pass a NCAA drug test approximately Oct 15th-Nov 15th. This was my thinking when I mentioned your approach will be different from the average "first cycle" you see guys preach like the gospel. I personally think 500mg of Test E and Dbol like most guys usually recommend could be counterproductive to your goals. Dbol pumps can be brutal and impede cardio/plyo training, plus the long esters could put you in a dangerous window for detection.

Although ED or every other day injections arent ideal for someone getting their feet wet, I think it could be a good option for you should you decide to see this through. Test prop can come with some slight post injection pain early on, but small injection volume usually helps keep it minimal and your muscles begin to adapt after a week or so. Detection time is minimal, and you would be able to get it in and out of your system quickly. Im a fan of DHT derivatives for athletic performance enhancement as they dont aromatize, and give good benefits in regards to strength and recovery. Masteron Prop, Winstrol, anavar would be the front runners in my mind....given the last two are very effective with oral admin you may opt in their direction to keep down your injection volume for your first run. I suspect you would see dramatic increases in performance with a simple protocol such as 50mg Test prop daily and then the oral of your choosing. Winny I would probably stick around 50mg daily as well...

You still have a lot of research to do. You need to get bloodwork to see where you are at, and set a baseline of the levels you will be hoping to return to after post cycle therapy. You will need to research these anchillaries and PCT drugs to understand what they do and how to implement them successfully into your recovery program. I have a few questions as well for you:

-will you be able to get workouts provided from a strength training/conditioning coach in your program? Who is going to supervise your training while you are home for the summer?
-will you have to work this summer? or do you have the ability to focus on your training and diet with monetary assistance from someone in your support network? This is a time and a resource question
-do you have anyone in your organization (most likely a strength training coach/assistant) than you can 100% confide in what you are doing? Ideally you should seek out someone that you can have full disclosure with, possible a peer helper or assistant in your program.

And of course....I'm not a doctor, this is not good medical advice. I'm not telling you what risks you should or shouldn't take with your health. I'm simply telling you what I would do if I was in your shoes and know what I know now, given that you are ultimately going to do it anyway.

 

[TANGO.ECHO.KILO]

here's some guys that train similar to you or have a good understanding of similar programs:
@Leancuisine @SpartacusOmega @weighted chinup @romaleos @RodgerThat @Perrin Aybara @jaymaximus @gr8whitetrukker @strongsafety41
..and these are probably the most seasoned vets, they are who I would go to for advice
@Oregongearhead @greenddog1 @ironwill1951 @HuckingFuge


can't say any will be willing to help but maybe if you show em you did your homework

 

[Michael_II]

I don't understand why would any1 play basketball, because you willingly transform your body into walking freakshow, If i was president of the usa, i would make a freakshow where i would send powerlifters, basketball players,the dickshaped golum, and tittie (Members of this forum)

Also I don't realize what kind of a retard you can be to play basketball, while you can play american football, you will use steroids in both sports, but in football unlike in basketball you will have 1 - handsome body 2- tall height but not a freakshow 3- more joy 4- more easy to achieve something

 

[TANGO.ECHO.KILO]

I don't understand why would any1 play basketball, because you willingly transform your body into walking freakshow, If i was president of the usa, i would make a freakshow where i would send powerlifters, basketball players,the dickshaped golum, and tittie (Members of this forum)

Also I don't realize what kind of a retard you can be to play basketball, while you can play american football, you will use steroids in both sports, but in football unlike in basketball you will have 1 - handsome body 2- tall height but not a freakshow 3- more joy 4- more easy to achieve something

fuck you brendan fraser...stay in your own 5 troll threads

 

[Leancuisine]

Yo yo!
Specialized training for the win...
I was a tracklete and got my 200m down to 21.19 with some insane treadmill resistance band things at a hospitals Human Performance Center. Was high jumping 6'6" too.
If you can, would definitely go with the coach hands down. Now if I were to have cycled during that time would I have been faster? Yeah more than likely, but being a track star wasn't a life goal of mine and at the time I wasn't even thinking of AAS.

If I were you, which I'm not, and if I thought I had a chance to make it big in sports, I would run mast prop and winstrol, 50mg each for 6 weeks at the tail end of your training. So if you do a 9 week training camp, your first 3 weeks you would get used to the movements, so that way you can hit the ground running when your cycle starts and focus purely on getting the most from it.
If your bodyfat levels are on point and actuslly at 10%, I'm sure you're a genetic freak and you would probably respond to test pretty well and pack on some weight. Would honestly stay away from it....

Wouldn't use an AI if you run mast/winny and would go with the nolva/clomid pct.

 

[Leancuisine]

Honestly tho @freakspeed the best way to make a good athlete better.... reduce bodyfat. Yeah sure I got faster during that training via turn over rate and hip strength.... but I went from like 191 to 183, and my strength went up too.

 

[RodgerThat]

When I played my sport I did may years under many trainers and conditioning coaches, the only thing I lacked was my families genetics of being big and fast. I personally don't think steroids takes you to the next level in sports, talent and skill does. You obviously have both if you are in the NCAA with hopes of being pro (in assuming) and at 6'4 that's gotta be what you need is skill and talent. You can't teach size but you can improve work ethic. I'd ask yourself do you really need juice? You have lots of lean natural muscle you can put on as is, have you ever trained a strength specific program? Most of the time for sports you focus on explosive training which is great but at the same time if you build your strength up then condition it for your sport it will do better for you.

Let me know what your training plan is for the summer?

I do have advice on steroid use too but for sports it's the last thing I would look at in a true athlete

 

[freakspeed]

I don't understand why would any1 play basketball, because you willingly transform your body into walking freakshow, If i was president of the usa, i would make a freakshow where i would send powerlifters, basketball players,the dickshaped golum, and tittie (Members of this forum)

Also I don't realize what kind of a retard you can be to play basketball, while you can play american football, you will use steroids in both sports, but in football unlike in basketball you will have 1 - handsome body 2- tall height but not a freakshow 3- more joy 4- more easy to achieve something

Lol this is actually funny, because I was gonna respond to the stuff you said, but your such a joke in this forum I won't gain anything by clowning your stupid ass.

 

[freakspeed]

I think one of the biggest factors here is you need to be able to pass a NCAA drug test approximately Oct 15th-Nov 15th. This was my thinking when I mentioned your approach will be different from the average "first cycle" you see guys preach like the gospel. I personally think 500mg of Test E and Dbol like most guys usually recommend could be counterproductive to your goals. Dbol pumps can be brutal and impede cardio/plyo training, plus the long esters could put you in a dangerous window for detection.

Although ED or every other day injections arent ideal for someone getting their feet wet, I think it could be a good option for you should you decide to see this through. Test prop can come with some slight post injection pain early on, but small injection volume usually helps keep it minimal and your muscles begin to adapt after a week or so. Detection time is minimal, and you would be able to get it in and out of your system quickly. Im a fan of DHT derivatives for athletic performance enhancement as they dont aromatize, and give good benefits in regards to strength and recovery. Masteron Prop, Winstrol, anavar would be the front runners in my mind....given the last two are very effective with oral admin you may opt in their direction to keep down your injection volume for your first run. I suspect you would see dramatic increases in performance with a simple protocol such as 50mg Test prop daily and then the oral of your choosing. Winny I would probably stick around 50mg daily as well...

You still have a lot of research to do. You need to get bloodwork to see where you are at, and set a baseline of the levels you will be hoping to return to after post cycle therapy. You will need to research these anchillaries and PCT drugs to understand what they do and how to implement them successfully into your recovery program. I have a few questions as well for you:

-will you be able to get workouts provided from a strength training/conditioning coach in your program? Who is going to supervise your training while you are home for the summer?
-will you have to work this summer? or do you have the ability to focus on your training and diet with monetary assistance from someone in your support network? This is a time and a resource question
-do you have anyone in your organization (most likely a strength training coach/assistant) than you can 100% confide in what you are doing? Ideally you should seek out someone that you can have full disclosure with, possible a peer helper or assistant in your program.

And of course....I'm not a doctor, this is not good medical advice. I'm not telling you what risks you should or shouldn't take with your health. I'm simply telling you what I would do if I was in your shoes and know what I know now, given that you are ultimately going to do it anyway.

-When I'm back home, we have a small training group, 5-7 people, all college basketball players, with some pros or local hs star occasionally. It's run by a high level strength/conditioning coach who has been a athlete and coach in high major D1 track/field.
-I may possibly get a part time job, 15-20 hours a week, nothing crazy but I'm not certain on that at this time.
-That's the one thing, our strength coach is fuckin square. I don't think I can trust him with this. One of the assistant coaches who I am really cool with might be the guy for this, but I'm not sure about his stance on PED's..

 

[Michael_II]

Lol this is actually funny, because I was gonna respond to the stuff you said, but your such a joke in this forum I won't gain anything by clowning your stupid ass.

Respond to one thing, post your own photo, you are basketball player, there is a chance that people take your photo every week at least every month, so there is absolutely no chance that you don't have a photo of yourself, post it to prove just one my point, that you are a walking freakshow, a two feeted devil

 

[freakspeed]

Yo yo!
Specialized training for the win...
I was a tracklete and got my 200m down to 21.19 with some insane treadmill resistance band things at a hospitals Human Performance Center. Was high jumping 6'6" too.
If you can, would definitely go with the coach hands down. Now if I were to have cycled during that time would I have been faster? Yeah more than likely, but being a track star wasn't a life goal of mine and at the time I wasn't even thinking of AAS.

If I were you, which I'm not, and if I thought I had a chance to make it big in sports, I would run mast prop and winstrol, 50mg each for 6 weeks at the tail end of your training. So if you do a 9 week training camp, your first 3 weeks you would get used to the movements, so that way you can hit the ground running when your cycle starts and focus purely on getting the most from it.
If your bodyfat levels are on point and actuslly at 10%, I'm sure you're a genetic freak and you would probably respond to test pretty well and pack on some weight. Would honestly stay away from it....

Wouldn't use an AI if you run mast/winny and would go with the nolva/clomid pct.

I mean I don't consider myself to be a genetic freak, I have a couple of teammates who are longer, with 40+ inch verticals and lower bf% than me.. but I think I have probably above average genetics. I did start training pretty early, and dieting well so that probably did me a favor in keeping a good fitness level. Appreciate that insight bro

 

[TANGO.ECHO.KILO]

-When I'm back home, we have a small training group, 5-7 people, all college basketball players, with some pros or local hs star occasionally. It's run by a high level strength/conditioning coach who has been a athlete and coach in high major D1 track/field.
-I may possibly get a part time job, 15-20 hours a week, nothing crazy but I'm not certain on that at this time.
-That's the one thing, our strength coach is fuckin square. I don't think I can trust him with this. One of the assistant coaches who I am really cool with might be the guy for this, but I'm not sure about his stance on PED's..

Thats good man.
Look for the young assistant that you feel comfortable bullshitting with. Approach it like this...
"hey man do you really feel like drug use is as prevalent in the NFL/MLB as they say it is? Some times I read stuff where people act like it's even more prevalent and actually only a small percentage are actually testing positive. What about NBA?"

see what he says. You can generally get a feeling about people's views pretty easily when pro sports come up

 

[Notits]

Respond to one thing, post your own photo, you are basketball player, there is a chance that people take your photo every week at least every month, so there is absolutely no chance that you don't have a photo of yourself, post it to prove just one my point, that you are a walking freakshow, a two feeted devil

I would love to meet you at the dumbell rack.

 

[TANGO.ECHO.KILO]

I do have advice on steroid use too but for sports it's the last thing I would look at in a true athlete

Im gonna play devils advocate here

weren't you one advocating the 20 year old "bikini model" to run var and albuterol? But a DII player on a scholarship should keep it natty? If drugs dont do help athletic performance...why are athletes failing tests everyday? Why are they banned in all sports? This argument makes absolutely no sense...if anything the competitive athlete has a reason to train enhanced. The middle aged man with poor diet or soccer mom does not , but to each their own. It's their bodies..

 

[RodgerThat]

Im gonna play devils advocate here

weren't you one advocating the 20 year old "bikini model" to run var and albuterol? But a DII player on a scholarship should keep it natty? If drugs dont do help athletic performance...why are athletes failing tests everyday? Why are they banned in all sports? This argument makes absolutely no sense...if anything the competitive athlete has a reason to train enhanced. The middle aged man with poor diet or soccer mom does not , but to each their own. It's their bodies..

Never reccomended albuteral to anyone I don't know much about it. The bikini models I know that do use var weren't on my reccomendation either. But I get were you are coming from. He is an athlete yes but I was also, I had a full ride scholarship to a university in the states and some great prospects until an injury. I didn't get the scholarship because of size, speed, strength or power I got it from skill not even talent but skill. Hours upon countless hours of practicing my craft and there was very few who could beat me one on one that I came across because I had that skill. Would I have been better if I used juice, maybe I would have been able to power through more but that wasn't my game so didn't matter. Endurance doesn't need juice it needs work ethic, if you have the work ethic and apply it then you will go further and make more results.

As for athletes failing and them being banned absolutely it helps them and it does enhance performance for sure! I'm just saying There are probably more he can work on first, if juice is going to make the difference between NBA or not then grab a pin and bend over as I wish I could have done more to play pro, would do literally anything but steroids isn't the first thing I'd do is all I'm saying. I know he has skill and must be good he is in the NCAA but both you and I know there is lots of strength he could add to his frame naturally without risk of failing a piss test. My .02

 

[TANGO.ECHO.KILO]

Never reccomended albuteral to anyone I don't know much about it. The bikini models I know that do use var weren't on my reccomendation either. But I get were you are coming from. He is an athlete yes but I was also, I had a full ride scholarship to a university in the states and some great prospects until an injury. I didn't get the scholarship because of size, speed, strength or power I got it from skill not even talent but skill. Hours upon countless hours of practicing my craft and there was very few who could beat me one on one that I came across because I had that skill. Would I have been better if I used juice, maybe I would have been able to power through more but that wasn't my game so didn't matter. Endurance doesn't need juice it needs work ethic, if you have the work ethic and apply it then you will go further and make more results.

As for athletes failing and them being banned absolutely it helps them and it does enhance performance for sure! I'm just saying There are probably more he can work on first, if juice is going to make the difference between NBA or not then grab a pin and bend over as I wish I could have done more to play pro, would do literally anything but steroids isn't the first thing I'd do is all I'm saying. I know he has skill and must be good he is in the NCAA but both you and I know there is lots of strength he could add to his frame naturally without risk of failing a piss test. My .02

Im just giving you a hard time because I feel like I know you well enough
There's a lot of big brothers here it was more of a blanket statement. I do think the recovery benefits alone justify the means..but I would never want anyone to piss hot.

This is a pretty interesting discussion because most athletes shroud so much in secrecy. I'm kinda wondering about running low dose prop and winny for 8 weeks and running a plyo program like Air Alert again and charting my improvements...

 

[Michael_II]

How to remove my post ? I am keep getting notifications in this group, please remove my comment if someone's admin, also ill crate new post revealing my correct body condition > follow

 

[Notits]

How to remove my post ? I am keep getting notifications in this group, please remove my comment if someone's admin, also ill crate new post revealing my correct body condition > follow

Why don't you do us all a favor and mix your next protein shake with bleach instead of water you stinky cunt.