First cycle log

[StillMind]

what’s going on guys!

I’ve been a long time lurker for about two years now. Have been lifting for about 15 years on and off. And seriously lifting for about 7. I’m 6’2 195 dehydrated, 200 average walking weight. After getting back, I’ve recomp’d down to 12% from 185 at over 15% bf. My heaviest prior was 215 around 13%.

My goal is to continue my recomp up to 205 around 10%, which is roughly 15lbs of lean mass and drop a little fat for my first cycle. My body likes to stay lean. When I did my dirty bulk up to 215, my body felt heavy and weighed down by the dirty bulk.

Best lifts right now are Bench 205x3, Squat 285x3, straight leg deadlifts 345x6. Though I lift more for size than strength but I do mix it up.(I know bench is weak)

I’ll be turning 25 shortly and decided to take a precycle blood test resulting in 380 Test score.

Average day of food is

Preworkout
- Milk, protein shake
Breakfast
- 6 eggs
Snack
- protein shake
Lunch
-Cup of rice or sweet potatoes
- 8-16oz of chicken/steak depending on lifts
- Cup of vegetable medley
Snack
- protein shake
Dinner
- 8-16oz of steak/chicken
- cup of rice or sweet potatoes
- cup of vegetable medley

I do cheat with burgers, PBnJ, and California burritos from time to time but always keep everything within 3500-3700 calories and my macros on point through this recomp.

If you have any history questions please feel free, all veteran advice will be appreciated.

I’ve been researching and planning my first cycle for about a year now. Here’s what I’ve come up with

Week 1 to 11: Testosterone enanthate M/F

• @ 250mg every 3.5 days (500mg/week)

Week 11 to 13: Testosterone propionate EO

• @ 50mg every other day

Week 1 to 13: HCG M/F

• @ 250 iu every 3.5 days (500 iu/week)

Week 1 to 13: Aromasin M/F

• @ 12.5mg every 3.5 days (25mg/week)

Week 9 to 13: Anavar (Start Fri end of wk 8)

• @25mg twice daily (350mg/week)

Week 13 to 17: Clomid (start Wed wk 13)

• @50/50/25/25 mg per day / week

Week 13 to 17: Nolva (start Wed wk 13)

• @40/40/20/20 mg per day / week

My game plan is long Ester for 10 weeks, then short Ester for 2 weeks to start my pct faster. And finish with Anavar to dry everything out. I wanted to kickstart with the short ester but have researched that it’s not virgin muscle friendly. I do have pubertal gynecomastia and low estradiol at 24, so my AI dosing and PCT are a concern.



Blood test attached for review.

 

[FourOneDeuxFitt]

Well I would make sure you st least give yourself a good 21 days at least from your last shot of log water test before starting PCT. Secondly when it comes to diet I would try to make some of those protein shakes into balanced whole food meals. When it comes to using your AI IMO when I’m on a blast I don’t start using my AI until I start to see signs that it’s needed for instance extra water retention and my nips are a dead give away... no need to fuck with my E2 levels until it’s necessary. Crashing it is the last thing you wanna do. Calories seem alright as well just track your weight every two weeks or so and make sure your achieving the goals you set forth.

What’s your training routine look like? For your height you can definitely get those maxes up a lot with proper training regimen. Do you keep a log of your workouts ?

 

[StillMind]

Well I would make sure you st least give yourself a good 21 days at least from your last shot of log water test before starting PCT. Secondly when it comes to diet I would try to make some of those protein shakes into balanced whole food meals. When it comes to using your AI IMO when I’m on a blast I don’t start using my AI until I start to see signs that it’s needed for instance extra water retention and my nips are a dead give away... no need to fuck with my E2 levels until it’s necessary. Crashing it is the last thing you wanna do. Calories seem alright as well just track your weight every two weeks or so and make sure your achieving the goals you set forth.

What’s your training routine look like? For your height you can definitely get those maxes up a lot with proper training regimen. Do you keep a log of your workouts ?

I’m switching to Test P for the last two weeks at roughly 150mg a week. Would I still need to wait 21 days? I’ll be upping my whole food intake as my weight goes up and keep my shakes 1-3 a day as needed. Any recommendations on meals?

I’ve been wondering if it would be better to use the AI based off how I feel and not a strict dose. I’m glad you said that.

Weight is being tracked every morning with handheld bf scan dehydrated.

I’ve been logging my workouts for about two weeks now. I rotate from high volume to low volume. My focus is more on 8-15 usually but do hit 4-6. I usually mix in negatives, supersets, and rack runs depending on how my muscles are responding that day.

 

[FourOneDeuxFitt]

I’m switching to Test P for the last two weeks at roughly 150mg a week. Would I still need to wait 21 days? I’ll be upping my whole food intake as my weight goes up and keep my shakes 1-3 a day as needed. Any recommendations on meals?

I’ve been wondering if it would be better to use the AI based off how I feel and not a strict dose. I’m glad you said that.

Weight is being tracked every morning with handheld bf scan dehydrated.

I’ve been logging my workouts for about two weeks now. I rotate from high volume to low volume. My focus is more on 8-15 usually but do hit 4-6. I usually mix in negatives, supersets, and rack runs depending on how my muscles are responding that day.

Yes. At the least 21 days after your last shot of long Ester test. It would be optimal to get blood work done after theee weeks and see where your sitting at. But, most don’t do that. Still be safe and give yourself enough time. Me personally, like I stated above only start my AI when needed. Last blast it was around week 4.

My go to for protein sources for meals are chicken, lean ground beef, pork tenderloins, occasional factor cuts of steak here and there and few times a week fish, normally one meal with eggs a day too. Lots of broccoli and green beans. Carb sources are rice, black beans, oats, cream of wheat, English muffins.. try to switch it up from week to week. Fats are from avocados, organic but butters (1-3 ingredients no extra bs) eggs, bit of butter here and there, and rest from meats(mostly all lean), and some salmon.

One thing that stays consistent is my pre and post workout meal. Pre is always cream of wheat, iso whey, and a tbsp of some kind of nut butter (but of fags to slow down digestion of carbs a bit to last longer during workouts) and post is two cups of rice, cup of broccoli, and extra lean ground beef or chicken (little to no fats). Also during workouts my intra shake is always the same. 25g cyclic dextrin (50g for legs and back day), pink salt, and a scoop of EAA.

Be flexible. Find what works for you man. The options for meals are endless.

 

[StillMind]

Yes. At the least 21 days after your last shot of long Ester test. It would be optimal to get blood work done after theee weeks and see where your sitting at. But, most don’t do that. Still be safe and give yourself enough time. Me personally, like I stated above only start my AI when needed. Last blast it was around week 4.

My go to for protein sources for meals are chicken, lean ground beef, pork tenderloins, occasional factor cuts of steak here and there and few times a week fish, normally one meal with eggs a day too. Lots of broccoli and green beans. Carb sources are rice, black beans, oats, cream of wheat, English muffins.. try to switch it up from week to week. Fats are from avocados, organic but butters (1-3 ingredients no extra bs) eggs, bit of butter here and there, and rest from meats(mostly all lean), and some salmon.

One thing that stays consistent is my pre and post workout meal. Pre is always cream of wheat, iso whey, and a tbsp of some kind of nut butter (but of fags to slow down digestion of carbs a bit to last longer during workouts) and post is two cups of rice, cup of broccoli, and extra lean ground beef or chicken (little to no fats). Also during workouts my intra shake is always the same. 25g cyclic dextrin (50g for legs and back day), pink salt, and a scoop of EAA.

Be flexible. Find what works for you man. The options for meals are endless.

I see what you’re saying. My PCT is setup 2 1/2 weeks after switching esters. Should I run the propionate for 3 weeks then?

And saving your meal ideas, they sound like they will boost workout energy.

Did you decide to blast n cruise for gains or low T too?

Thank you for all your help by the way!

 

[FourOneDeuxFitt]

I blast and cruise. Personal choice. I’m not having anymore kids. I have two and that’s more than enough haha. REAL food is the best fuel for our body.

You can definitely run the prop for an extra week if you choose. Then give tired a few days for the Ester to drop completely outta your system to start PCT.

Also, what seems to work well for me is consuming roughly 65-70% of my carbs pre, intra, and post workout. I have some with breakfast and the meal after my post workout meal normally includes a decent amount as well. Not too many before bed that’s normally a higher fat meal as is the one after breakfast.

 

[StillMind]

Might consider it if a cycle doesnt help raise my levels up. No kids yet though, don’t want to hurt those chances.

Changing the enanthate to 9 weeks and propianate to 3 weeks. Give it a week then PCT.

I’m going to try the carb rotate like you mentioned. Will probably still have some with dinner but more so around my workout. I need to get into the habit of carb loading in the morning. I’m going to go back to oats with protein powder and see if that helps.

 

[Rhynoplanet]

Always fun to follow a first time user and see their gains. I personally would have waited and tried to get closer to maxing out your natural potential. Your lifts are quite weak but I know you said you are focussing more on hypertrophy. I would have also suggested just doing test at 500 MG a week nothing else but anavar is a nice little addition. I would bump the anavar up to 6 weeks instead of 4 but again that is your choice. Keep training hard and let’s see that progress.

 

[StillMind]

Thank you for the encouragement! I know I’m being impatient. Partially due to the low test symptoms, partially because I’ve made the personal decision to not be natural. At my strongest my PB were 275 B, 315 S, and 405 SL DL. Definitely not my genetic limit.

With the current UGL issues, I might be going with test only because of how expensive Var is through Pharmacomstore. Depends if I can get an order through Stanford or not.

I’ve researched horomone levels more and found my E2 is only slightly lower than average, yet still have the pubertal gyno. Would anyone recommend taking Tamoxifen on cycle to get rid of them or just dose Aromasin accordingly? I don’t want to crash my E2s but also sick of having swollen nipples. Trying to plan for a smooth first cycle.

Progress pre cycle, weighed dehydrated in AM. Left is 4 weeks back into gym and recomp at 194. Right is 3 weeks later, taken today at 195. All lifts are up climbing very quickly from muscle memory.

All measurements going up except waist, which is has dropped over 2 inches.



Hope this log/journal has enough info to help future beginners and answer the same questions I had.

 

[enigma34]

I’ll be turning 25 shortly and decided to take a precycle blood test resulting in 380 Test score.

Average day of food is

25 years old and only 380 total test?

 

[StillMind]

25 years old and only 380 total test?

Yes, sir

 

[enigma34]

I know everyone is differernt. I haven't cycled yet and my base last year at 27 was 836. Your level is Shockong

 

[StillMind]

Base is definitely low and feel symptoms of it. I believe for our age we are suppose to be around 700 or so. 836 is a great number, how are you feeling at that level?

 

[enigma34]

I feel I'm getting old lol. 90% of my trabing is bodybuikding style. I'm just now starting to officially add squatting and leg days to my routine. But I'm holding out as long I can before I cycle. Still playing around with diets, and rep ranges. I want to know as much about myself before I make the leap. I am collecting years of test, and anccileries in the mean time so I have stability when I do start. I don't want to run into not having another cycle if my dick stops working. But that's the plan for me once I start I know I'm going to be on it for the long run/life, because I gym every day the last 6 years and my life/ free time almost revolves around food and gym stuff. So this must be my life passion only thing I've committed to and still do. But I have more gains to make I feel till maybe 30. BUt I do want to be a big mothErfucker For myself not to compete.

 

[Worf]

So you have been lifting since you were 10? SO you've been lifting hard for 7 years and those are your numbers? Sounds to me like the low T symptoms are holding you back. To the guy who said you should wait off and maximize your natural potential doesnt know what he's talking about. If those really are your t numbers, lift numbers and age you are at your natural potential. Im no expert but after the cycle and pct I'd recommend more blood work. Running a cycle will not do anything for boosting your natural t production. The hcg and serms may have some impact but I wouldnt count on it. You may look into trt man. Good luck with your endeavors!

PS, Nolvadex is not an anti estrogen. Not sure where people get this information. It actually increases estrogen levels,it will stop the growth of breast tissue. It typically will not reverse, You will still need an Ai like Arimidex, Aromasin or Letro to control estro. Sounds like you might need both due to your history. Nolvadex and Letro is about the only thing shy of surgery to rid a person of gyno, it will fuck up your life for a few weeks though.

 

[StillMind]

So you have been lifting since you were 10? SO you've been lifting hard for 7 years and those are your numbers? Sounds to me like the low T symptoms are holding you back. To the guy who said you should wait off and maximize your natural potential doesnt know what he's talking about. If those really are your t numbers, lift numbers and age you are at your natural potential. Im no expert but after the cycle and pct I'd recommend more blood work. Running a cycle will not do anything for boosting your natural t production. The hcg and serms may have some impact but I wouldnt count on it. You may look into trt man. Good luck with your endeavors!

PS, Nolvadex is not an anti estrogen. Not sure where people get this information. It actually increases estrogen levels,it will stop the growth of breast tissue. It typically will not reverse, You will still need an Ai like Arimidex, Aromasin or Letro to control estro. Sounds like you might need both due to your history. Nolvadex and Letro is about the only thing shy of surgery to rid a person of gyno, it will fuck up your life for a few weeks though.

Yes, my dad was recreational bodybuilder and started me out in our home gym, till I got stronger then about 11-12 he signed me up for the gym and would take me before school as our bonding time. Then I got into sports and he split my time into MMA classes and personal training institute. After he moved away, I went strictly to training myself for bodybuilding around 16-17.

Got up to 215 around 12-13% bf by time I was 20 and stayed there for about 3 years. That was my true limit or near it, I felt. At that point, my gym friends thought I was using. I have slacked off for the last few years and just got back full time a few months ago. I could get back up to 215 pretty quickly but would rather do it lean and juicy at lower body fat.

I didn’t know Nolva increased estrogen, just knew it was part of the HPTA kickstart process. Probably just use it if a flair up happens on cycle, then use for pct. I have read that gyno can also happen from low T.

Side note: should mention, one of my testicles is pretty banged up from groin shots and slipped cups. Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the cause.

I’ll try to document my journey the best I can for the community.

Thanks for the support!

 

[Worf]

I didn’t know Nolva increased estrogen, just knew it was part of the HPTA kickstart process. Probably just use it if a flair up happens on cycle, then use for pct. I have read that gyno can also happen from low T.

Side note: should mention, one of my testicles is pretty banged up from groin shots and slipped cups. Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the cause.

I’ll try to document my journey the best I can for the community.

Thanks for the support!

Nolvadex is a SERM(selective estrogen receptor modulator) it tricks the body into thinking there isnt enough estro in that area. So the HPTA makes the body produce more hormones. Thats why LH and FSH are high(er) while using nolva, clomid, torem etc. It will cause the body to produce more test and consequently more estrogen. I cant remember exactly why it binds to the breast tissue, probably a bit above my ability to explain, but it works.
TO my understanding gyno normally will not be caused by low T , UNLESS the estrogen levels in the body are so high they are oppressive of testosterone. Typically men with low testosterone also have low e, unless they are very overweight or have some other issue such as a tumor etc.
I couldnt say for sure but based on your numbers I would say youre more secondary than primary due to bottom of range LH and FSH. If your testes were damaged from sports and not able to produce sufficient test your FSH and LH numbers would probably be top of range. An hcg test can determine this. It is possible you could have sustained multiple TBI that could result in a secondary condition, medical practitioners (the good ones anyway) are becoming more aware of this. Concussions fuck up guys HPTA.
Good luck with everything bud, I'll be watching your log. Maybe we can all learn something from your experiences.

 

[StillMind]

Nolvadex is a SERM(selective estrogen receptor modulator) it tricks the body into thinking there isnt enough estro in that area. So the HPTA makes the body produce more hormones. Thats why LH and FSH are high(er) while using nolva, clomid, torem etc. It will cause the body to produce more test and consequently more estrogen. I cant remember exactly why it binds to the breast tissue, probably a bit above my ability to explain, but it works.
TO my understanding gyno normally will not be caused by low T , UNLESS the estrogen levels in the body are so high they are oppressive of testosterone. Typically men with low testosterone also have low e, unless they are very overweight or have some other issue such as a tumor etc.
I couldnt say for sure but based on your numbers I would say youre more secondary than primary due to bottom of range LH and FSH. If your testes were damaged from sports and not able to produce sufficient test your FSH and LH numbers would probably be top of range. An hcg test can determine this. It is possible you could have sustained multiple TBI that could result in a secondary condition, medical practitioners (the good ones anyway) are becoming more aware of this. Concussions fuck up guys HPTA.
Good luck with everything bud, I'll be watching your log. Maybe we can all learn something from your experiences.

I have read similar findings with the FSH and LH numbers indicative of sperm production in medical journals.

Believe I found the low test and gyno, somewhere on the internet which made sense at the time of reading. I have no facts to back my research at this time.

By secondary, do you mean the latter of having a health issue? And do you think in your research, my levels are possible with only one healthy testicle? My presumptions aren’t scientifically backed and would second guess them with new information.

I know I keep repeating myself, but as someone that doesn’t post online and am quite secluded in this venture, the community support here is insane. I truly appreciate you guys for your knowledge, feedback, and support.

Another update, my gear is on its way and am very excited. A little nervous because this will be a big change in my life. Not only for the physical benefits but finally feeling high test levels. I’m hoping this will level me out mentally. In self reflection, a lot of negatives in my life point to that low test number. Mood swings, anxiety, low self confidence, depression, etc.. things that I’ve worked on my own to take control of, but still suffer from.

I will be updating my thread with my sources and reviewing my experience with each company.

 

[Worf]

Primary Hypogonadism- Testicles dont produce adequate testosterone

Secondary Hypogonadism- Pituitary doesnt signal the testicles for proper production

If you havent already taken the plunge you may want to work with a trt doctor to find where that takes you. ultimately your decision but just throwing options out there for you.

 

[StillMind]

Primary Hypogonadism- Testicles dont produce adequate testosterone

Secondary Hypogonadism- Pituitary doesnt signal the testicles for proper production

If you havent already taken the plunge you may want to work with a trt doctor to find where that takes you. ultimately your decision but just throwing options out there for you.

I know I need to see a TRT doc or Endo. I don’t have the best health insurance and the cost is what’s been keeping me from going or else I would’ve went over a year ago when I started researching it.

Thank you for the info