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[Standfast]

I started GH better than 4 months ago and the only change I've seen is my IGF-1 level dropped from 146/155 natural baseline to 117, I experienced zero sides and no benefits to notice.I've tried 2iu pm, 2am/2pm for 4iu and 4iu am. The weird thing is my labs were the exact same numbers on 2iu of pharma as 4iu of generic. Could it be I just don't respond or possibly something to do with my pituitary gland I have more detail in another thread on the forum called GH labs.

 

[Iron_Yuppie]

I myself have around 10-12 test showing while on the same dose but split my igf-1 is 75- 100 points higher than single dosing in the am.

All blood pulled around the same time 9 am to 11am regardless the dose split.

I’m currently dosing 4 iu shoulder morning ED to compare.

The problem with clinical studies is that they are that... clinical studies.... they are not trying to optimize for BB. That’s where the bro code comes from.

How I run growth is morning only shot for fat loss

Morning late afternoon for higher igf and gaining.

How would you run it?

AM faster EOD is how I’m planning to run it. Doing eod seems to allow for your existing natural pulses to continue, which means you need less exogenous overall. But I’m also not shooting for the kind of numbers you have.

 

[jackmeoff1]

Intense exercise with hgh can play havoc with blood sugar. I know tree cutters that can’t touch it in the summer

Taking hgh prior to exercise is actually ideal. Hgh raises blood sugar via lipolysis and exercise burns it off.

 

[Mighty-mouse]

I'm so jealous of guys like you. That's why doctors care more about IGF test than the HGH serum test. They know their GH is real so all they care about is how your body is reacting to it. For us, HGH serum is a better test because it will be pretty much the same for everybody. It's just telling you how much GH is in the vial. Just like you and I can be on the same test dose and have the same Total Test, but how much our body actually uses, the Free Test varies widely. Sucks that I am on the pitifully low end of HGH/IGF responders. I'm going to talk to my doctor about this.

This is untrue growth serum test can be skewed by peptides. I have scored in the 50’s on serum and 154 igf on 4iu same batch.

 

[Mighty-mouse]

AM faster EOD is how I’m planning to run it. Doing eod seems to allow for your existing natural pulses to continue, which means you need less exogenous overall. But I’m also not shooting for the kind of numbers you have.

I may run a test on eod .... I know igf-1 has a decent half life so it could be beneficial.

 

[Ambiguous]

Taking hgh prior to exercise is actually ideal. Hgh raises blood sugar via lipolysis and exercise burns it off.

Agreed. I’m specifically talking about really intense exercise. Like crossfit or kettlebells at an intensity close to puking. Even a brutal hour on the step mill can do it

 

[malfeasance]

So I don't have to go into agonizing detail, please EVERBODY assume I am not on some crazy diet where I am eating jellybeans and bacon fat for breakfast. I've always been a health nut and very strict on my diet and eat a well balanced diet of about 40% protein, 30% carb, 30% fat. I know many here use this product and, yes, my results are low, especially for 8ius, so everybody here are going to desperately try to find other reasons for my low result other than my response to the product itself. If I say I had a cold before giving a sample, or only slept five hours, or ate a Big Mac.... everyone will say, "Yeah, that was it." These are hormone people. If I inject 5 grams of test/week for six weeks I'm going to have a high Test level no matter what I do.

I post this so that you penny pinchers shell out $70 for an online test or ask your doctor to include it in your blood test, which you should be getting anyway but I doubt most of you are. But when it comes to testing IGF, not HGH serum, but IGF, YOU HAVE TO GET A BASELINE READING FIRST!

My baseline reading, meaning my levels without any exogenous HGH at all, is 54 ng/ml. So for me, 160 doesn't sound so low. I do want to get it over 200, which is what is natural for most of you guys but I wanted to test this "cheaper" GH at a higher dose. When I use half of a vial of the 120 kits, presumably 6 ius, the levels as you can see from the printout,, was 198 ng/ml. So on my next order, probably next week, I will be sticking to 120 iu kit and maybe bump it to 8ius/day to make a direct comparison or maybe just take a whole 12iu vial 5 days a week for convenience. I don't want to pull 8ius out of one vial, and then the next day pull the remaining 4ius and then pull another 4ius out of a new vial. 12iu five days a week is 60ius which is close enough to 8ius seven days a week.

mtt,

Mighty-mouse was asking about diet, not to see if you were "on some crazy diet where [you are] eating jelly beans and bacon fat for breakfast," although that would be interesting, but to see more about are you cutting, bulking, that sort of thing.

Calorie intake makes for drastically different IGF-1 numbers on the same dose of growth hormone.

Earlier you posted something like, "These are hormones, you idiots. If I inject 500 mg of testosterone, then my testosterone will be higher." (not an exact quote, LOL!).

But injecting growth hormone does not translate into IGF-1 - your liver has to do that. It is not a linear result. It depends on a lot of other factors. For instance, taking insulin with hgh will increase IGF-1. One other factor, though, is how much you are eating. More = higher IGF-1. Less = lower IGF-1.

My own personal experience (and I am not alone in this) was that on a cut, growth hormone injections did not stop my IGF-1 level from dropping to the low 100s on a certain UGL growth hormone.

Pissed off, I thought the hgh was bunk and tossed it back in the refrigerator. I stopped taking it.

I switched to pharma (Serostim) but saw my IGF-1 levels further drop as I restricted calories even further, all the way down to 54 (not a typo).

This at least caused me to pause and reflect upon whether the former hgh was indeed "bunk." So I kept it in the fridge for later testing.

When I raised my calories back up to 4000 daily, I took the growth hormone that I had earlier shelved as "bunk" and ran it. I ran it at a lower dose than I had when testing previously in the low 100s. The result this time, same hgh, same batch, but lower dose, was 345.

So diet affects the IGF-1 result greatly, as in HUGE differences. This is what motivated Mighty-mouse's question.

I haven't tried jelly beans and bacon fat for breakfast, though, so I cannot comment on the effect such a breakfast would have on IGF-1.

 

[FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR]

mtt,

Mighty-mouse was asking about diet, not to see if you were "on some crazy diet where [you are] eating jelly beans and bacon fat for breakfast," although that would be interesting, but to see more about are you cutting, bulking, that sort of thing.

Calorie intake makes for drastically different IGF-1 numbers on the same dose of growth hormone.

Earlier you posted something like, "These are hormones, you idiots. If I inject 500 mg of testosterone, then my testosterone will be higher." (not an exact quote, LOL!).

But injecting growth hormone does not translate into IGF-1 - your liver has to do that. It is not a linear result. It depends on a lot of other factors. For instance, taking insulin with hgh will increase IGF-1. One other factor, though, is how much you are eating. More = higher IGF-1. Less = lower IGF-1.

My own personal experience (and I am not alone in this) was that on a cut, growth hormone injections did not stop my IGF-1 level from dropping to the low 100s on a certain UGL growth hormone.

Pissed off, I thought the hgh was bunk and tossed it back in the refrigerator. I stopped taking it.

I switched to pharma (Serostim) but saw my IGF-1 levels further drop as I restricted calories even further, all the way down to 54 (not a typo).

This at least caused me to pause and reflect upon whether the former hgh was indeed "bunk." So I kept it in the fridge for later testing.

When I raised my calories back up to 4000 daily, I took the growth hormone that I had earlier shelved as "bunk" and ran it. I ran it at a lower dose than I had when testing previously in the low 100s. The result this time, same hgh, same batch, but lower dose, was 345.

So diet affects the IGF-1 result greatly, as in HUGE differences. This is what motivated Mighty-mouse's question.

I haven't tried jelly beans and bacon fat for breakfast, though, so I cannot comment on the effect such a breakfast would have on IGF-1.

VIS... Very Interesting Stuff... just out of curiosity are you 110% sure that serostim was real pharma grade and not real fake pharma? Just out of curiosity, i repeat..

anyhow, received my package from Optis today...

I don’t trust your blood works your Janos reports I don’t care a fuck..

I have a way better method of testing...



she sniffed on some vials and told me they’re g2g... I ll see next week and will let you all know...

right now, every vial has a perfectly compact powder that can roll trough the vial if turned upside down...

The previous red top generic I used , that gave me decent results, wasn’t always compacted but some were broken into some pieces, and some vials , 10% weren’t vacuum sealed.

I heard maybe here “vacuum sealing doesn’t mean shit” , and I say to the guy who posted “even you don’t mean shit” because if fuckin 90% of vials are vacuum sealed, the fact that 10% aren’t means something.

Vigorous Steve said that often happens as a consequence of rebranding by switching caps...

Anyhow, vacuum sealing is important, (and that’s demonstrated by the fact that majority of vials are, and not because of random processes but because factory made it on fuckin purpose...

Because lack of oxygen into the vials, means no oxidation...

Some say with their silly voice “some pharma vials aren’t vacuum sealed” maybe they have argon into them...

Anyway, will see how it goes with those Optis...

We re watching you @opti , don’t disappoint us -.-

 

[malfeasance]

pretty damn sure the seros are real, but for what it is worth, no vacuum seal (I am pretty sure that somebody else mentioned the same about serostim previously).

But the point in my post is the the Chinese UGL growth tested so vastly differently based on my diet. It was the same stuff, before and after, that is, the same batch I assumed was bunk was good to go. It was just my diet. Apparently starvation interferes with IGF-1 production. Note this quote from that overly long post:

"When I raised my calories back up to 4000 daily, I took the growth hormone that I had earlier shelved as "bunk" and ran it. I ran it at a lower dose than I had when testing previously in the low 100s. The result this time, same hgh, same batch, but lower dose, was 345."

I love the dog sniff method for testing!

 

[FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR]

pretty damn sure the seros are real, but for what it is worth, no vacuum seal (I am pretty sure that somebody else mentioned the same about serostim previously).

But the point in my post is the the Chinese UGL growth tested so vastly differently based on my diet. It was the same stuff, before and after, that is, the same batch I assumed was bunk was good to go. It was just my diet. Apparently starvation interferes with IGF-1 production. Note this quote from that overly long post:

"When I raised my calories back up to 4000 daily, I took the growth hormone that I had earlier shelved as "bunk" and ran it. I ran it at a lower dose than I had when testing previously in the low 100s. The result this time, same hgh, same batch, but lower dose, was 345."

I love the dog sniff method for testing!

Yeah man that was clear already, no need to explain.. I even said VIS ... very interesting stuff there...

So you re fuckin sure you ran pharma grade Seros and it wasn’t a game changer compared to some generic ? Fuck i m seeing all the pieces falling around of my broken dreams... piece by piece... I always thought that running real 100% pharma out of pharma refrigerator, would shred me at 5% in one week...

 

[138casanova]

VIS... Very Interesting Stuff... just out of curiosity are you 110% sure that serostim was real pharma grade and not real fake pharma? Just out of curiosity, i repeat..

anyhow, received my package from Optis today...

I don’t trust your blood works your Janos reports I don’t care a fuck..

I have a way better method of testing...

View attachment 143242

she sniffed on some vials and told me they’re g2g... I ll see next week and will let you all know...

right now, every vial has a perfectly compact powder that can roll trough the vial if turned upside down...

The previous red top generic I used , that gave me decent results, wasn’t always compacted but some were broken into some pieces, and some vials , 10% weren’t vacuum sealed.

I heard maybe here “vacuum sealing doesn’t mean shit” , and I say to the guy who posted “even you don’t mean shit” because if fuckin 90% of vials are vacuum sealed, the fact that 10% aren’t means something.

Vigorous Steve said that often happens as a consequence of rebranding by switching caps...

Anyhow, vacuum sealing is important, (and that’s demonstrated by the fact that majority of vials are, and not because of random processes but because factory made it on fuckin purpose...

Because lack of oxygen into the vials, means no oxidation...

Some say with their silly voice “some pharma vials aren’t vacuum sealed” maybe they have argon into them...

Anyway, will see how it goes with those Optis...

We re watching you @opti , don’t disappoint us -.-

Opinions and anecdotal evidence mean shit. Get bloodwork and post it.

 

[Aellonfol]

I'm so jealous of guys like you. That's why doctors care more about IGF test than the HGH serum test. They know their GH is real so all they care about is how your body is reacting to it. For us, HGH serum is a better test because it will be pretty much the same for everybody. It's just telling you how much GH is in the vial. Just like you and I can be on the same test dose and have the same Total Test, but how much our body actually uses, the Free Test varies widely. Sucks that I am on the pitifully low end of HGH/IGF responders. I'm going to talk to my doctor about this.

I mean dude you’re 61 and don’t have much muscle at 6’1 180...your IGF is about what I’d expect all things considered. Not to mention at your age a super high IGF level is not something you should be seeking..
The guys reporting the numbers you’re jealous of have probably at least 50 pounds of lean tissue on you relative to that frame and are probably in their mid 20s-30s

25, 5’11 250 12% IGF 440

 

[FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR]

Opinions and anecdotal evidence mean shit. Get bloodwork and post it.

they mean shit, since I’m just switching from another generic, while on trt cruise and same kcals... I ll see in the mirror what’s going on since I m collecting data in the same situation I collected previous ones with other generic..

Would go for bloods but I made them last week and fuckin nurse destroyed my vein... fuck.. won’t take a fuckin needle in My vein for some months.. maybe other 3... I can pin my ass delts lovehandles ED no problem, but not my veins

 

[mtt]

This is untrue growth serum test can be skewed by peptides. I have scored in the 50’s on serum and 154 igf on 4iu same batch.

What is untrue? Did I say the serum test was perfect? The serum test can be skewed just as the IGF test can be skewed. I already mentioned how Biotin will affect the IGF test. Doctors don't bother with serum tests. They care about how your body reacts to HGH. Because IGF varies widely among individuals the serum test will give us a better picture. It will more accurately tell us how much actual GH is in that vial. It's not an HPCL test but it's the best the average person has available. Ask Opti what he would prefer if a use says his HGH was underdosed. Would he go by an IGF test or a serum test. If it's an IGF test than that means all GH I use is underdosed. If my State allowed a serum test without a script that is what I would be doing instead.

 

[mtt]

mtt,

Mighty-mouse was asking about diet, not to see if you were "on some crazy diet where [you are] eating jelly beans and bacon fat for breakfast," although that would be interesting, but to see more about are you cutting, bulking, that sort of thing.

Calorie intake makes for drastically different IGF-1 numbers on the same dose of growth hormone.

Earlier you posted something like, "These are hormones, you idiots. If I inject 500 mg of testosterone, then my testosterone will be higher." (not an exact quote, LOL!).

But injecting growth hormone does not translate into IGF-1 - your liver has to do that. It is not a linear result. It depends on a lot of other factors. For instance, taking insulin with hgh will increase IGF-1. One other factor, though, is how much you are eating. More = higher IGF-1. Less = lower IGF-1.

My own personal experience (and I am not alone in this) was that on a cut, growth hormone injections did not stop my IGF-1 level from dropping to the low 100s on a certain UGL growth hormone.

Pissed off, I thought the hgh was bunk and tossed it back in the refrigerator. I stopped taking it.

I switched to pharma (Serostim) but saw my IGF-1 levels further drop as I restricted calories even further, all the way down to 54 (not a typo).

This at least caused me to pause and reflect upon whether the former hgh was indeed "bunk." So I kept it in the fridge for later testing.

When I raised my calories back up to 4000 daily, I took the growth hormone that I had earlier shelved as "bunk" and ran it. I ran it at a lower dose than I had when testing previously in the low 100s. The result this time, same hgh, same batch, but lower dose, was 345.

So diet affects the IGF-1 result greatly, as in HUGE differences. This is what motivated Mighty-mouse's question.

I haven't tried jelly beans and bacon fat for breakfast, though, so I cannot comment on the effect such a breakfast would have on IGF-1.

I did not say, "You idiots". Why did you put words in my mouth to include that? My point was, that I am on a typical balanced diet. Nothing extreme.

 

[mtt]

I mean dude you’re 61 and don’t have much muscle at 6’1 180...your IGF is about what I’d expect all things considered. Not to mention at your age a super high IGF level is not something you should be seeking..
The guys reporting the numbers you’re jealous of have probably at least 50 pounds of lean tissue on you relative to that frame and are probably in their mid 20s-30s

25, 5’11 250 12% IGF 440

Muscle mass doesn't determine IGF levels. I am not striving for "super high" IGF levels. What makes you think that when I specifically said that I want to be in the 200 range considering the reference range is around 100-300 ng/ml? Just like Test level is currently at 750 ng/ml. On the high end but still within the reference range.

My comment about being jealous was somewhat tongue in cheek. I thought that would have been obvious.

 

[Aellonfol]

Muscle mass doesn't determine IGF levels. I am not striving for "super high" IGF levels. What makes you think that when I specifically said that I want to be in the 200 range considering the reference range is around 100-300 ng/ml? Just like Test level is currently at 750 ng/ml. On the high end but still within the reference range.

My comment about being jealous was somewhat tongue in cheek. I thought that would have been obvious.

Do I need to repeat again you’re 61? Being 61 and those stats will absolutely impact your IGF levels, regardless of how much rHGH you take. It’s not magic

A 61 year old man is on the very peak end of the bell curve for those particular reference ranges. An IGF level of close to 200 is relatively very high, and as you said yourself you’re already about 4x your baseline levels

 

[mtt]

Do I need to repeat again you’re 61? Being 61 and those stats will absolutely impact your IGF levels, regardless of how much rHGH you take. It’s not magic

Repeat as much as you want? Did I question that premise? You don't think I am aware that age has an effect on hormones as well as everything that goes on in your body. That's why I am on TRT and see an endocrinologist. To optimize my levels lost due to age. That's why I am taking exogenous HGH. You're trying to make a point that doesn't exist.

 

[mtt]

Do I need to repeat again you’re 61? Being 61 and those stats will absolutely impact your IGF levels, regardless of how much rHGH you take. It’s not magic

A 61 year old man is on the very peak end of the bell curve for those particular reference ranges. An IGF level of close to 200 is relatively very high, and as you said yourself you’re already about 4x your baseline levels

BTW, how did you come up with the notion that at 61 years old one is at the very peak end of the bell curve. What exactly is that "peak" and how do you know? And I am at 3x my base level.

 

[malfeasance]

I did not say, "You idiots". Why did you put words in my mouth to include that? My point was, that I am on a typical balanced diet. Nothing extreme.

It says right after that, "not an exact quote, LOL!" but you still found something to get all offended about. You are overly sensitive.

You then go on to post something about your diet being "balanced" which means you still do not understand what Mighty-mouse or I were saying . . .