I think @Platinum Direct just started selling them as well
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Let's talk about GH (and all other shit)
- Thread starter Wunderpus
- Start date
Eman
Master
I have to say, I switched to the blacktops the other day and my hands have swollen up and tingle much more. It could just be because they are allegedly overdosed though and I've been treating it as a 10iu vial.
everything I've read is that you're natural production returns to normal after use. it's something that you want to do lots of research on though. took me a long time to figure it all out (and it still confuses me)
Ive been researching for quite some time . Just now ready to make my move ....
let us know what you decide about who to use and how much
DickySmalls
Member
Yeah, those are looking really good. I personally went with TheGreytop when I was buying because I've seen half a dozen bloods on them that were all good. I tried looking for Meditrope bloods but couldn't find any. Only good things were some anecdotal reviews and TP's autoresponder claiming they were overdosed to >5mg but he's the guy that was selling them so I had to be skeptical. So far the single Meditrope that has been tested was overdosed (not as overdosed as TP claimed, but still overdosed nonetheless) but it's only a single sample. I think Dr Jim said a sample size of 10 is needed for *I forget the wording*. I'm sure as the weeks roll by, there will be more samples tested and with those results, more buyers and more blood work in the coming months.
On a side note, I've been using these for my HGH injections which are 28g 1/2":
BD Lo-Dose U-100 Insulin Syringe at HealthyKin.com
Does anyone have experience with 28g vs 30/31g? Is it worth double the price for a slightly thinner needle? I'm not sure if my stomach flabs are just really hard to pierce or the needle gets that dull after penetrating the stopper.
And oh yeah, if anyone hasn't discovered that site yet, it's amazing.
~$5 for 100 packs of common size needles:
BD PrecisionGlide Single-Use Hypodermic Needles at HealthyKin.com
~$7 for 100 packs of 3cc syringes + needles:
BD Luer-Lok Syringe with PrecisionGlide Needle at HealthyKin.com
I'm noticing a change in the administration of hgh on many forums.
Lots of users are advocating EOD injections or M/W/F injection.
Total week dosage same as if injected ED.
This should help with the insuling resistance given by the hgh use and it will produce the same results with probably less side effect.
There is a stud done on trained athlete that after 6weeks
Of 3x injection of hgh, without change of anything in their diet and training, got a reduction of BF and an increase in lbm.
Will post the study when I get home.
Lots of users are advocating EOD injections or M/W/F injection.
Total week dosage same as if injected ED.
This should help with the insuling resistance given by the hgh use and it will produce the same results with probably less side effect.
There is a stud done on trained athlete that after 6weeks
Of 3x injection of hgh, without change of anything in their diet and training, got a reduction of BF and an increase in lbm.
Will post the study when I get home.
This study is originally from Dats board i would not normally copy the whole thread but i feel this just proves that IF everything else is on par (study was carried out conditioned athletes) so as i have said for years when you have reached a decent level with your physique where you know what you are eating, training hard and getting the rest you need then GH is a great addition..
demonstrating positive body composition changes in highly trained athletes w/ 2g/kg per day protein intake & 8iu of GH 3x per week (EOD), w/ no other compounds.
NOTE: Protropin 1mg = 3iu or 1iu = 333mcg
EOD dose (3x per week) in the following study: 2.67mg or 8iu
Weekly total dose = 8mg or 24iu
Summary results:
FFW = fat free Weight
FW = fat Weight
Body composition response to exogenous GH during training in highly conditioned adults, D. M. Crist, J Appl Physiol 65: 579-584, 1988
Intro:
The effects of biosynthetic methionyl-human growth hormone (met-hGH) on body composition and endogenous secretion of growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) were studied in eight well-trained exercising adults between 22 and 33 yr of age for 6 weeks.
Dosing & Administration:
The met-hGH (experimental) treatment consisted of 8.0 mg (2 U/mg) per week of methGH (Protropin; Genentech, San Francisco, CA), which was divided into three doses (2.67 mg/dose) and delivered on alternate days (3 days/wk) in 0.5 ml of bacteriostatic diluent. Because of differences in the body weights of the subjects, the relative dose range varied between 0.03 and 0.05 mg/kg per injection. Injections were given between 0800 and 1500, and their delivery was rotated among four to six sites throughout the study period. Treatments were administered on a double-blind basis with neither the experimental subject nor the person administering the injections knowing which treatment was being delivered. The total weekly dose of met-hGH used in this study (8.0 mg) was considered supraphysiological, since the spontaneous release of human GH during a 24-h period is purportedly -0.68 mg (4.8 mg/wk) in men and 0.79 mg (5.5 mg/wk) in women (30), similar to amounts reported by others (6).
CONCLUSION
In the present study, we found that alternate-day treatment with met-hGH altered body composition in highly conditioned, exercising adults by increasing FFW (fat free weight), decreasing %fat, and increasing FFW (fat free weight)/FW (fat weight). These changes were significantly greater than those produced by exercise alone.
...
Moreover we found that supraphysiological amounts of met-hGH were sufficient to significantly elevate circulating concentrations of IGF-I in all our subjects, confirming that the changes in body composition were indeed due to real alterations produced in vivo by the hormone treatment.
Supression of endogenous GH
It has been reported previously that exogenous GH will suppress endogenous release of the hormone (19,23) and that this effect may be mediated in part by elevated levels of IGF-I (23). On a preliminary basis, we found that treatment for 6 wk with supraphysiological doses of met-hGH produced an impaired endogenous GH response to stimulation in some, but not all, of our subjects. This variable response may be related to the amount of hormone used in the study. Although a significant group elevation in IGF-I levels occurred during the met-hGH treatment, this response was still below the upper limit of normal (2.20 U/ml) for the study group. Thus it is plausible that the treatment dose of met-hGH used and the subsequent moderate increase in IGF-I levels led to feedback suppression of endogenous GH release in five of the seven subjects measured for this effect, whereas these physiological events were insufficient to produce this effect in two of the subjects.
Intense exercise increases sensitivity to GH??
...One possible explanation for the disparity between our findings and those of others (25, 26) is that the stress of long-term, intensive exercise training could induce alterations in vivo, which might potentiate tissue sensitivity to the physiological actions of GH (2). In any case, it is clear from our findings that supraphysiological doses of met-hGH increased circulating concentrations of IGF-I and increased FFW (fat free weight) and decreased FW (fat weight) in highly conditioned, exercising adults.
Soft-tissue Overgrowth?
There are two principal adverse reactions associated with excessive amounts of human GH, carbohydrate intolerance, and soft-tissue overgrowth. In the present study, we measured fasting blood glucose levels periodically throughout each treatment and found no real changes suggestive of a hyperglycemic response to methGH. Because soft-tissue overgrowth is associated with abnormally high levels of IGF-I, the normal responses observed suggest that the chance for soft-tissue overgrowth occurring in our subjects was minimal. However, it is unreasonable to conclude that use of met-hGH is safe as an adjunct to exercise in healthy adults until more subjects are studied over longer periods of time and with more stringent tests for detecting changes in glucose tolerance and soft-tissue overgrowth.
Diet used
To avoid compromising the dietary requirements for optimal tissue anabolism during the met-hGH treatment, our subjects ingested between 2.05 and 2.10 g/kg a day of protein and a minimum number of kilocalories to maintain body weight. The kilocaloric requirement removed the potential bias from a dietary-induced FW loss.
In Conclusion
We conclude that treatment with supraphysiological doses of met-hGH will significantly alter body composition in adults who are highly conditioned from years of exercise training. The magnitude of this effect, however, is dependent in part on the amount of hormone given per body weight of the individual rather than endogenous GH secretory status. Changes in body composition are directly related to met-hGH administration, but the manifestations of treatment may be mediated in part by increased production of IGF-I or other GH-dependent serum anabolic factors. Moreover, supraphysiological treatment with met-hGH in exercising adults may produce impairments in the stimulated release of endogenous GH in some individuals.
demonstrating positive body composition changes in highly trained athletes w/ 2g/kg per day protein intake & 8iu of GH 3x per week (EOD), w/ no other compounds.
NOTE: Protropin 1mg = 3iu or 1iu = 333mcg
EOD dose (3x per week) in the following study: 2.67mg or 8iu
Weekly total dose = 8mg or 24iu
Summary results:
FFW = fat free Weight
FW = fat Weight
Body composition response to exogenous GH during training in highly conditioned adults, D. M. Crist, J Appl Physiol 65: 579-584, 1988
Intro:
The effects of biosynthetic methionyl-human growth hormone (met-hGH) on body composition and endogenous secretion of growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) were studied in eight well-trained exercising adults between 22 and 33 yr of age for 6 weeks.
Dosing & Administration:
The met-hGH (experimental) treatment consisted of 8.0 mg (2 U/mg) per week of methGH (Protropin; Genentech, San Francisco, CA), which was divided into three doses (2.67 mg/dose) and delivered on alternate days (3 days/wk) in 0.5 ml of bacteriostatic diluent. Because of differences in the body weights of the subjects, the relative dose range varied between 0.03 and 0.05 mg/kg per injection. Injections were given between 0800 and 1500, and their delivery was rotated among four to six sites throughout the study period. Treatments were administered on a double-blind basis with neither the experimental subject nor the person administering the injections knowing which treatment was being delivered. The total weekly dose of met-hGH used in this study (8.0 mg) was considered supraphysiological, since the spontaneous release of human GH during a 24-h period is purportedly -0.68 mg (4.8 mg/wk) in men and 0.79 mg (5.5 mg/wk) in women (30), similar to amounts reported by others (6).
CONCLUSION
In the present study, we found that alternate-day treatment with met-hGH altered body composition in highly conditioned, exercising adults by increasing FFW (fat free weight), decreasing %fat, and increasing FFW (fat free weight)/FW (fat weight). These changes were significantly greater than those produced by exercise alone.
...
Moreover we found that supraphysiological amounts of met-hGH were sufficient to significantly elevate circulating concentrations of IGF-I in all our subjects, confirming that the changes in body composition were indeed due to real alterations produced in vivo by the hormone treatment.
Supression of endogenous GH
It has been reported previously that exogenous GH will suppress endogenous release of the hormone (19,23) and that this effect may be mediated in part by elevated levels of IGF-I (23). On a preliminary basis, we found that treatment for 6 wk with supraphysiological doses of met-hGH produced an impaired endogenous GH response to stimulation in some, but not all, of our subjects. This variable response may be related to the amount of hormone used in the study. Although a significant group elevation in IGF-I levels occurred during the met-hGH treatment, this response was still below the upper limit of normal (2.20 U/ml) for the study group. Thus it is plausible that the treatment dose of met-hGH used and the subsequent moderate increase in IGF-I levels led to feedback suppression of endogenous GH release in five of the seven subjects measured for this effect, whereas these physiological events were insufficient to produce this effect in two of the subjects.
Intense exercise increases sensitivity to GH??
...One possible explanation for the disparity between our findings and those of others (25, 26) is that the stress of long-term, intensive exercise training could induce alterations in vivo, which might potentiate tissue sensitivity to the physiological actions of GH (2). In any case, it is clear from our findings that supraphysiological doses of met-hGH increased circulating concentrations of IGF-I and increased FFW (fat free weight) and decreased FW (fat weight) in highly conditioned, exercising adults.
Soft-tissue Overgrowth?
There are two principal adverse reactions associated with excessive amounts of human GH, carbohydrate intolerance, and soft-tissue overgrowth. In the present study, we measured fasting blood glucose levels periodically throughout each treatment and found no real changes suggestive of a hyperglycemic response to methGH. Because soft-tissue overgrowth is associated with abnormally high levels of IGF-I, the normal responses observed suggest that the chance for soft-tissue overgrowth occurring in our subjects was minimal. However, it is unreasonable to conclude that use of met-hGH is safe as an adjunct to exercise in healthy adults until more subjects are studied over longer periods of time and with more stringent tests for detecting changes in glucose tolerance and soft-tissue overgrowth.
Diet used
To avoid compromising the dietary requirements for optimal tissue anabolism during the met-hGH treatment, our subjects ingested between 2.05 and 2.10 g/kg a day of protein and a minimum number of kilocalories to maintain body weight. The kilocaloric requirement removed the potential bias from a dietary-induced FW loss.
In Conclusion
We conclude that treatment with supraphysiological doses of met-hGH will significantly alter body composition in adults who are highly conditioned from years of exercise training. The magnitude of this effect, however, is dependent in part on the amount of hormone given per body weight of the individual rather than endogenous GH secretory status. Changes in body composition are directly related to met-hGH administration, but the manifestations of treatment may be mediated in part by increased production of IGF-I or other GH-dependent serum anabolic factors. Moreover, supraphysiological treatment with met-hGH in exercising adults may produce impairments in the stimulated release of endogenous GH in some individuals.
DickySmalls
Member
Nice! What dose are you on? I'm moving up to 7 IU ED tomorrow and have managed to avoid sides.
Would that exacerbate any negative side effects like carpal tunnel?
Do you know if any studies were conducted which compared ED and EOD pinning?
If total week dosage is the same sides of cts should be the same.
But as for everything it all depends on the subject.
I''ll try my next hgh cycle to do EOD 10IU.
Because after few months my BG really start climbing up and stay elevated almost all the time due to hgh I will see if the EOD approach make things better.
I do believe the final results it's similar to ed injection even if it's slightly worse but the side are less as well I believe it's a good compromise.
But as for everything it all depends on the subject.
I''ll try my next hgh cycle to do EOD 10IU.
Because after few months my BG really start climbing up and stay elevated almost all the time due to hgh I will see if the EOD approach make things better.
I do believe the final results it's similar to ed injection even if it's slightly worse but the side are less as well I believe it's a good compromise.
Eman
Master
I was at 6iu for a little bit but I decided to drop it back to 5iu. I think I'll keep it at that or drop down to 4iu unless on cycle... Would like to run it a little higher on cycle.
My biggest and probably only concern with running GH is insulin resistance. I think running slin starts to kind of become a necessity at or after 5iu. I need to do some more research on this. Slin just isn't something I really want to bother with... Possibly ever, but definitely not right now.
@Wunderpus what dosages do you think slin and GH start to become ideal to run together?
Read a very nice article saying that slin is not a must with GH and you really need to use it correctly or you will just be fat.
Anyway try the EOD approach.
It should help with insulin resistance or use metformin.
Try first supplements like cinnamon etc.
Yes insulin resistance is the problem if you use it for long.
Or I would be 365 on.
Eman
Master
Yeah I would agree from the research I've done. Hell, you need to use it correctly just to not die lol.
However, insulin resistance is certainly a concern. EOD might be a good idea when I increase dosages on cycle. I've read some articles that suggest you'll get a superior anabolic effect from running it that way.
Might try incorporating cinnamon too, read about that before.
I take anything that can help BG.
Cinnamon chromium pliconate alpha lipoic acid, I have low carb day during the week etc.
These supplements are not like 100% certified to lower it... but they could... they are cheap so fuck it I use them.
In my month off from hgh I go low carb as well.
You need to take care of insulin resistance because it can make you diabetic in the long run.
the extreme solution is metformin.
Getting labs done today at 10am on my base line IGF-1 levels. I haven't ran GH in quite a few months.
I have received my black top order and will be starting a run with these after numbers come back.
mands
I have received my black top order and will be starting a run with these after numbers come back.
mands
@mands, what rHGH dose will you be running and how long before you get bloods drawn again?
I will be running 4-5 iu's a day one shot in the evening. I will get bloods done in 3 weeks.
I will post batch# as well and send in a vial for testing.
mands
DickySmalls
Member
Very nice. I'm currently waiting on TP to reply to my email so I can buy 6 kits and see how they fare. By any chance, would you like 1-2 vials again from me when I receive my black tops? I'm thinking of switching completely to the black tops (from the greys) as they've tested as being overdosed @ PM and now on MESO (at least from the single vial that was tested and, I believe - correct me if I'm wrong - confirmed by you that it was purchased directly from TP/HK/PD). I mean shit, $105-102 per kit and if all the vials are overdosed 35%+ that's like, what, $75 for a kit (sans shipping)?
This study is originally from Dats board i would not normally copy the whole thread but i feel this just proves that IF everything else is on par (study was carried out conditioned athletes) so as i have said for years when you have reached a decent level with your physique where you know what you are eating, training hard and getting the rest you need then GH is a great addition..
demonstrating positive body composition changes in highly trained athletes w/ 2g/kg per day protein intake & 8iu of GH 3x per week (EOD), w/ no other compounds.
NOTE: Protropin 1mg = 3iu or 1iu = 333mcg
EOD dose (3x per week) in the following study: 2.67mg or 8iu
Weekly total dose = 8mg or 24iu
Summary results:
FFW = fat free Weight
FW = fat Weight
Body composition response to exogenous GH during training in highly conditioned adults, D. M. Crist, J Appl Physiol 65: 579-584, 1988
Intro:
The effects of biosynthetic methionyl-human growth hormone (met-hGH) on body composition and endogenous secretion of growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) were studied in eight well-trained exercising adults between 22 and 33 yr of age for 6 weeks.
Dosing & Administration:
The met-hGH (experimental) treatment consisted of 8.0 mg (2 U/mg) per week of methGH (Protropin; Genentech, San Francisco, CA), which was divided into three doses (2.67 mg/dose) and delivered on alternate days (3 days/wk) in 0.5 ml of bacteriostatic diluent. Because of differences in the body weights of the subjects, the relative dose range varied between 0.03 and 0.05 mg/kg per injection. Injections were given between 0800 and 1500, and their delivery was rotated among four to six sites throughout the study period. Treatments were administered on a double-blind basis with neither the experimental subject nor the person administering the injections knowing which treatment was being delivered. The total weekly dose of met-hGH used in this study (8.0 mg) was considered supraphysiological, since the spontaneous release of human GH during a 24-h period is purportedly -0.68 mg (4.8 mg/wk) in men and 0.79 mg (5.5 mg/wk) in women (30), similar to amounts reported by others (6).
CONCLUSION
In the present study, we found that alternate-day treatment with met-hGH altered body composition in highly conditioned, exercising adults by increasing FFW (fat free weight), decreasing %fat, and increasing FFW (fat free weight)/FW (fat weight). These changes were significantly greater than those produced by exercise alone.
...
Moreover we found that supraphysiological amounts of met-hGH were sufficient to significantly elevate circulating concentrations of IGF-I in all our subjects, confirming that the changes in body composition were indeed due to real alterations produced in vivo by the hormone treatment.
Supression of endogenous GH
It has been reported previously that exogenous GH will suppress endogenous release of the hormone (19,23) and that this effect may be mediated in part by elevated levels of IGF-I (23). On a preliminary basis, we found that treatment for 6 wk with supraphysiological doses of met-hGH produced an impaired endogenous GH response to stimulation in some, but not all, of our subjects. This variable response may be related to the amount of hormone used in the study. Although a significant group elevation in IGF-I levels occurred during the met-hGH treatment, this response was still below the upper limit of normal (2.20 U/ml) for the study group. Thus it is plausible that the treatment dose of met-hGH used and the subsequent moderate increase in IGF-I levels led to feedback suppression of endogenous GH release in five of the seven subjects measured for this effect, whereas these physiological events were insufficient to produce this effect in two of the subjects.
Intense exercise increases sensitivity to GH??
...One possible explanation for the disparity between our findings and those of others (25, 26) is that the stress of long-term, intensive exercise training could induce alterations in vivo, which might potentiate tissue sensitivity to the physiological actions of GH (2). In any case, it is clear from our findings that supraphysiological doses of met-hGH increased circulating concentrations of IGF-I and increased FFW (fat free weight) and decreased FW (fat weight) in highly conditioned, exercising adults.
Soft-tissue Overgrowth?
There are two principal adverse reactions associated with excessive amounts of human GH, carbohydrate intolerance, and soft-tissue overgrowth. In the present study, we measured fasting blood glucose levels periodically throughout each treatment and found no real changes suggestive of a hyperglycemic response to methGH. Because soft-tissue overgrowth is associated with abnormally high levels of IGF-I, the normal responses observed suggest that the chance for soft-tissue overgrowth occurring in our subjects was minimal. However, it is unreasonable to conclude that use of met-hGH is safe as an adjunct to exercise in healthy adults until more subjects are studied over longer periods of time and with more stringent tests for detecting changes in glucose tolerance and soft-tissue overgrowth.
Diet used
To avoid compromising the dietary requirements for optimal tissue anabolism during the met-hGH treatment, our subjects ingested between 2.05 and 2.10 g/kg a day of protein and a minimum number of kilocalories to maintain body weight. The kilocaloric requirement removed the potential bias from a dietary-induced FW loss.
In Conclusion
We conclude that treatment with supraphysiological doses of met-hGH will significantly alter body composition in adults who are highly conditioned from years of exercise training. The magnitude of this effect, however, is dependent in part on the amount of hormone given per body weight of the individual rather than endogenous GH secretory status. Changes in body composition are directly related to met-hGH administration, but the manifestations of treatment may be mediated in part by increased production of IGF-I or other GH-dependent serum anabolic factors. Moreover, supraphysiological treatment with met-hGH in exercising adults may produce impairments in the stimulated release of endogenous GH in some individuals.
Fat free weight includes water weight.
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