Mass Spec Thread

[shredded]

My way of making you guys laugh and showing something of my personality, you will enjoy this just don't show your wife, mine never laughed.

We've all heard about men having guts and men having balls. In fact, they are both slang for 'courage'. But you know what? They aren't synonyms.
Do you want to know the difference between them?
In an effort to keep you informed, the definition for each is listed below...
GUTS- is arriving home late after a night out with the guys, being met at the staircase by your wife with a broom, and having the guts to ask: "Are you still cleaning or are you going flying somewhere?"
BALLS - is coming home late after a night out with the guys, smelling of perfume and beer, lipstick on your collar, being met at the staircase by your wife with a broom, slapping your wife on the ass and having the balls to say: "You're next."

 

[bickel29]

The best system is where everyone can trust the results but no one trusts each other; in fact, it would be mandatory that no one trust each other.

Leave it up to Millard to say it so much more eloquently than myself!

Honest people with nothing to hide welcome others validating their claims/findings, providing it is done with respect/consistency/transparency for all involved.

 

[element00]

Leave it up to Millard to say it so much more eloquently than myself!

Honest people with nothing to hide welcome others validating their claims/findings, providing it is done with respect/consistency/transparency for all involved.

I don't know bro, that's sounds damn eloquent as well

 

[brutus79]

The best system is where everyone can trust the results but no one trusts each other; in fact, it would be mandatory that no one trust each other.

I will always trust you Millard. I'm a sucker for a nice set of quads.

 

[Millard]

I will always trust you Millard. I'm a sucker for a nice set of quads.

Thank you. This means a lot. I will do everything to deserve the trust.

At the same time, I think when we can create a system that can be trusted, it is superior to trusting an individual.

For example, with the "Steroid Underground", MESO abandoned the traditional hierarchical approach involving the use of admins and moderators to "determine" the truth. We replaced it with a decidedly non-hierarchical approach involving an unmoderated/uncensored forum to arrive at the truth. No one has to trust admins or mods anymore; they trust the process to reveal the truth.

Similarly, if we can create a steroid quality control testing program where we can trust the process rather than being required to trust any particular individual, then we will have a winner.

 

[antipcman]

Thank you. This means a lot. I will do everything to deserve the trust.

At the same time, I think when we can create a system that can be trusted, it is superior to trusting an individual.

For example, with the "Steroid Underground", MESO abandoned the traditional hierarchical approach involving the use of admins and moderators to "determine" the truth. We replaced it with a decidedly non-hierarchical approach involving an unmoderated/uncensored forum to arrive at the truth. No one has to trust admins or mods anymore; they trust the process to reveal the truth.

Similarly, if we can create a steroid quality control testing program where we can trust the process rather than being required to trust any particular individual, then we will have a winner.

What is your opinion on an actual lobbying organization for people looking to financially and verbally/politically effect the stereotypes and over-regulation of PEDs?

 

[Millard]

What is your opinion on an actual lobbying organization for people looking to financially and verbally/politically effect the stereotypes and over-regulation of PEDs?

I would like to see it. The question is: do we have the numbers and political motivation?

 

[antipcman]

I would like to see it. The question is: do we have the numbers and political motivation?

Political motivation is financial really. Numbers? If you include closet PED users I think the numbers would be shocking.

 

[tacohuman]

Closet wouldn't really matter. If all the famous people that are using came out the entire scene might change. More likely is one or two would admit use and everyone else would blast them in between tren shots. A movement needs a representative though. Someone to be a voice and a face.

 

[antipcman]

Closet wouldn't really matter. If all the famous people that are using came out the entire scene might change. More likely is one or two would admit use and everyone else would blast them in between tren shots. A movement needs a representative though. Someone to be a voice and a face.

I think it all comes down to $$$. Most athletes and gym rats who use PEDs are perfectionists who refuse to settle for anything less than perfection. I bet the bulk of PED users combined earn an above average paycheck.

 

[newtoketo]

If they can legalize pot....

 

[Millard]

If they can legalize pot....

That's what I'm talking about - numbers. Let's say 5 million in U.S. have used AAS. That doesn't come close to estimated 120 million people who have tried marijuana in their lifetime. If we had 120 million [fill in the name of the drug] users, that drug would be legal too.

 

[devildog93]

Marijuana can still get you jail time, and they have much more push than we do...just saying.

 

[Millard]

Political motivation is financial really. Numbers? If you include closet PED users I think the numbers would be shocking.

I think it all comes down to $$$. Most athletes and gym rats who use PEDs are perfectionists who refuse to settle for anything less than perfection. I bet the bulk of PED users combined earn an above average paycheck.

I think political (apathy) is sometimes/often independent of financials. I agree with you on the demographics of the average PED user but interest in the acquisition and practical use of AAS far exceeds the interest in socio-legal-political considerations.

Steroid law reform is something that I think all AAS users agree with as a long-term objective. However, most AAS users are more concerned with the objectives that will likely have the greatest impact on their lives in the short-term.

Returning to the topic of this thread (steroid quality control testing), I think it will be far easier to get an AAS user to spend $100 to test their own product over helping to pay for a Capitol lobbyist and that's only after they've spent several hundred on their cycle.

 

[bickel29]

A movement needs a representative though. Someone to be a voice and a face.

And that representative better have a current career that would not be affected by aligning themselves with this cause. And that representative better be okay with becoming an instant target of our government and its agencies. And that representative better keep every aspect of their life clean and in order. And that representative would have to be on nothing more than HRT prescribed meds. Which brings us to the potential ramifications of pissing off the HRT clinics and their lobbyists and activists who surely wouldn't want us to be fighting to legalize the very cash cow that they milk by keeping steroids illegal.
And if you thought MythotiK was a target of the ugl's for testing their product, imagine the UGL target on your head for trying to legalize this stuff, making the ugl's an unnecessary evil if you could buy it from legit manufacturers?!

Not being negative - just thinking out loud. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

 

[Millard]

Leave it up to Millard to say it so much more eloquently than myself!

Honest people with nothing to hide welcome others validating their claims/findings, providing it is done with respect/consistency/transparency for all involved.

I don't know bro, that's sounds damn eloquent as well

@element00 , yes, you are right - @bickel29 was especially eloquent with that statement...

As far as I am concerned, I think he provided the answer to the steroid testing problem: We don't need to trust admins, mods or respected vets to submit samples for testing. All we need are honest people to send the samples. Yeah, I know members don't necessarily know who the honest people are. But they don't need to. The honest people sending in the samples -- they know -- and they can wait for others to validate it.

 

[bickel29]

@element00 , yes, you are right - @bickel29 was especially eloquent with that statement...

The honest people sending in the samples -- they know -- and they can wait for others to validate it.

Bingo! And to reiterate, honest people WANT validation. If I make a qualitative assumption/statement based on my testing, I would NEVER then close my mind to the possibility that other members might come up with different findings. I WANT them testing the same item, I NEED them testing the same item, as a means of validating (or invalidating) my findings.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that testing is ONLY done to discover the truth, no matter what that truth becomes. We should never perform testing with the intention of achieving a pre - desired outcome. That is fanboy behavior, that is how a source approaches it. Yes, we hope our gear is legit, but if your goal is to prove a specific outcome, then you start getting creative with the data - or with labmax you start seeing more fluorescent than is there - to prove you're right.

We as end users have to want the truth, even when it is undesirable.

 

[tacohuman]

As far as I've seen there's been a handful of individuals performing labmax and having mass spec done. The same handful posting blood work for the most part. The average user seems willing to inject about anything someone will tell them is "legit" and never question it.

 

[anthony5649]

As far as I've seen there's been a handful of individuals performing labmax and having mass spec done. The same handful posting blood work for the most part. The average user seems willing to inject about anything someone will tell them is "legit" and never question it.

agreed but I only lab maxed because I saw it being used on this board and because I saw spec results that sucked. So it opened my eyes that it's my job to protect me. It's definitely eye opening to see the results and for me at least it made me want to be accountable for what I'm putting in my body.

 

[Millard]

As far as I've seen there's been a handful of individuals performing labmax and having mass spec done. The same handful posting blood work for the most part. The average user seems willing to inject about anything someone will tell them is "legit" and never question it.

agreed but I only lab maxed because I saw it being used on this board and because I saw spec results that sucked. So it opened my eyes that it's my job to protect me. It's definitely eye opening to see the results and for me at least it made me want to be accountable for what I'm putting in my body.

I think you're seeing the beginning of change. If qualitative (labmax) and quantitative (mass spec) testing becomes more and more accessible to individual members, the number of individuals submitting samples will continue to increase. The traditional models of verifying AAS quality relied on trusting those "in the know" to tell you who was legit. Empowering the individual to verify AAS quality control is a shift.