MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Masteron vs primo, to get really lean
malfeasance
Well-known Member
Winnie practically cripples me with knee pain. When I tried it, I thought I had severely injured my knees (until I dropped it, and the knee pain disappeared).
laclark89
Well-known Member
Could be a bit of truth to both of those, minus being too fat lol.
I know a competitive body builder that I work with an talk to on occasion, I talked with him about my aas use and my goals and he basically told me i can reach all my goals, with 3 compounds test decca and winstrol and control my estrogen. This was like 2 years before the liver kings roid use came to light, that I believe he was taking test decca winnie and high dose growth.
Does that make any sence to you, if so how would you run that?
laclark89
Well-known Member
Dident a Olympic sprinter ben something?loose his metal for winnie? I bet he dident have knee crippling pain.
BigTomJ
Well-known Member
I personally don't use orals really ever outside of a contest prep schenario.
My philosophy and beliefs are that orals are best served for their TEMPORARY benefits. Be it a cosmetic effect (dryness, fullness, hardness blah blah blah) or their strength benefits to push through sticky plateaus or to keep strength up at the end of a deep cut.
Oral compounds are really good for these uses, but not great for actual growth as their exposure time is typically so short. I don't see the toxicity and organ stress being worth it.
My belief is that in nearly all situations, the healthier and more effective approach for progress would be just to run a bit more of an injectable for the duration of your cycle rather than subject yourself to the stress from orals. An extra 100-200mg of test or deca is gonna slap much more size on you over the course of 16-20 weeks than 4 weeks of some anadrol will.
They are fun and all, and love the pumps and strength when I have them, but they just don't seem worth it to me for long term progress.
With all that said, test/deca/GH is a no brainier and generally very well tolerated by most people, they are all bioidentical and proven to be highly effective in pretty much any situation (I've known competitors that have ran preps on deca/npp right into shows).
500-700 test and 300-400 npp is my standard, go-to blast.
I wouldn't have been surprised at all if liver king was going something similar.
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BigTomJ
Well-known Member
Ben Johnson, world record holder sprinter
Ben Johnson (Canadian sprinter) - Wikipedia
Winstrol use was absolutely rampant during that time in all kinds of events.
He was reportedly taking a much lower dose than bodybuilders use.
Avarice911
Well-known Member
From my understanding, the amount of drugs taken for athletic performance is generally significantly lower than a bodybuilding dose
GuerillaPete
Well-known Member
Test deca winny the old school prep cycle .
Winstrol is good very good but also very toxic .
For you i would recommend masteron instead.
It will get you there just slower and more healthy.
Also many are switching deca for primo for the same reasons .
Results wise i used to like winstrol but every time i used it my body started getting toxic faster .
6 weeks use went to 4 weeks use.
Last time i tried it i was toxic/nauseated under 2 weeks so i just quit using it.
Never got joint pain from it i think this is a person to person thing .
I remember the PED hysteria in cycling during the Lance Armstrong witch hunt and the ridiculous talk about the extreme dosages being used when in reality it was all essentially therapeutic dosages.
There are sports with extreme use. Athletics and pro cycling ain't it.
Pulpfiction
Member
Yea but some people if
Not most get very dry joints on winny. Takes the water/lubrication out of the joints and that’s where winny causing joint pain comes from. Doesn’t happen to everyone but some people get it. It can be combated with nandrolone or joint supplements
laclark89
Well-known Member
I knew you would have some good Insight on that.
And last part I also agree, for sure he could have been taking that, now that I'm thinking about it I seen a interview with phil heath and he says he won his pro card i believe, on 500 test 250 decca no hgh no insulin, I dont believe every bodybuilders cycle disclosures but I'm very inclined phil on that 1.
malfeasance
Well-known Member
"Heath won the 2005 Mr. USA title on his pro debut on 500 milligrams of testosterone and one shot of “Deca” (nandrolone decanoate) per week. Per Medinica, “nandrolone decanoate is considered to have strong anabolic effects but weak androgenic effects.”
. . .
Heath won his first two pro shows as a natural athlete because he knew several bodybuilders in Colorado who took PEDs had developed negative side effects and were not winning shows. After researching anabolic steroids, Heath concluded that the risks of taking PEDs early in his career weren’t worth the tradeoff. Additionally, Heath harbored concerns about the IFBB potentially implementing drug testing."
7-Time Mr. Olympia Phil Heath Discusses PED Use During His Pro Bodybuilding Career | BarBend
Phil Heath shares which performance-enhancing drugs he took during his pro bodybuilding career and the doses of each.
barbend.com
I do not buy that, at all.
On the other hand, the same article says this:
"He disclosed that his highest weekly testosterone dosage was 1,300 milligrams and that he never used insulin.
I do sort of buy that, but only because I have heard so many other IFBB pros say that they have diminishing returns over 1000 to 1250 or so mg a week of testosterone, and that they use this as a base and add other things to it. He probably figured the same when he went higher and returned to a 1300 per week dose - which is higher than several other pros have discussed (many, many on various podcasts, some still alive, like Fouad Abiad, some dead, like Luke Sandoe, and lots of guests on Abiad's show saying the same thing, as well as other pro bodybuilder podcasts). Notice that Phil Heath is not saying anything about whether he took other things with that dosage of testosterone. He is just saying testosterone highest was 1300 a week, which fits in with what many other pros have said.
But winning multiple pro shows as a natty and also 500mg of test and 250 deca, for prep, no, I am not buying it. Sorry.
malfeasance
Well-known Member
I think tgoat1970 has left the building
I have tried both. They are very similar. I give the edge to Tirz on the appetite suppression. But it’s not a big difference. I am down 53 lbs.
You are 100% correct."Heath won the 2005 Mr. USA title on his pro debut on 500 milligrams of testosterone and one shot of “Deca” (nandrolone decanoate) per week. Per Medinica, “nandrolone decanoate is considered to have strong anabolic effects but weak androgenic effects.”
. . .
Heath won his first two pro shows as a natural athlete because he knew several bodybuilders in Colorado who took PEDs had developed negative side effects and were not winning shows. After researching anabolic steroids, Heath concluded that the risks of taking PEDs early in his career weren’t worth the tradeoff. Additionally, Heath harbored concerns about the IFBB potentially implementing drug testing."
7-Time Mr. Olympia Phil Heath Discusses PED Use During His Pro Bodybuilding Career | BarBend
Phil Heath shares which performance-enhancing drugs he took during his pro bodybuilding career and the doses of each.
I do not buy that, at all.
On the other hand, the same article says this:
"He disclosed that his highest weekly testosterone dosage was 1,300 milligrams and that he never used insulin.
I do sort of buy that, but only because I have heard so many other IFBB pros say that they have diminishing returns over 1000 to 1250 or so mg a week of testosterone, and that they use this as a base and add other things to it. He probably figured the same when he went higher and returned to a 1300 per week dose - which is higher than several other pros have discussed (many, many on various podcasts, some still alive, like Fouad Abiad, some dead, like Luke Sandoe, and lots of guests on Abiad's show saying the same thing, as well as other pro bodybuilder podcasts). Notice that Phil Heath is not saying anything about whether he took other things with that dosage of testosterone. He is just saying testosterone highest was 1300 a week, which fits in with what many other pros have said.
But winning multiple pro shows as a natty and also 500mg of test and 250 deca, for prep, no, I am not buying it. Sorry.
Turbo charged
Well-known Member
Test deca and Winnie is a classic cycle very popular and you know what it works very well. I ran this plenty of times. 400 test 400 deca and 30 winny. I don't like big doses my body reacts well to medium to low doses better. 12 week cycle. But I would run the winny at that dose for 8 weeks. I would start the oral after 2 weeks in then finish oral at week 10.
Turbo charged
Well-known Member
Lower the dose. Or add 100 deca for joints on cycle.
Turbo charged
Well-known Member
You will see results on winny at any body weight. I have trained guys and have trained with guys on winny you will definitely see results even at a higher bodyfat. Primo not so much.
BigTomJ
Well-known Member
Sure, it's not going to do nothing.
But a higher bf guy isn't going to see any real cosmetic benefits, ie "drying out" at higher bodyfat.
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