My coach keeps preaching to me about belt squats. Helps a ton with getting volume work on the legs without adding stress to the back. It's actually pretty good for hip mobility as well which will help your squat as well.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Meso Powerlifting Corner
- Thread starter jaymaximus
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weighted chinup
Well-known Member
The reason power cleans aren't indicated in a lot of strength routines is because it's too hard to teach a lifter without a coach to do a power clean. Power cleans were originally prescribed in Bill Starr's original 5x5 iirc instead of deadlift because the power clean has more carryover to sports but it's too hard to teach to lifters who don't have a coach how to do one properly so it's fallen out of favor over the years.
@Docd187123 Is it true that if you lift your max effort lifts as fast and explosively as possible then you will also simultaneously train dynamic effort for these movements as well? I'm not sure where I heard this so it could be complete bs but some time ago supposedly the Soviet weightlifting team figured if you lift ME work as fast as possible, regardless of how fast the bar physically travels, you will also train the dynamic effort function of these lifts. Is this the case? If true, since SAID principle always applies, wouldn't this have more carryover to 1rm than doing speed work with a lower intensity?
I understand the other benefits of having a separate day for DE, it's another opportunity to train the movements with less intensity and therefore less fatigue, but if someone wanted to be completely minimalist, can they just get away with attempting to lift ME as fast as possible?
@Docd187123 Is it true that if you lift your max effort lifts as fast and explosively as possible then you will also simultaneously train dynamic effort for these movements as well? I'm not sure where I heard this so it could be complete bs but some time ago supposedly the Soviet weightlifting team figured if you lift ME work as fast as possible, regardless of how fast the bar physically travels, you will also train the dynamic effort function of these lifts. Is this the case? If true, since SAID principle always applies, wouldn't this have more carryover to 1rm than doing speed work with a lower intensity?
I understand the other benefits of having a separate day for DE, it's another opportunity to train the movements with less intensity and therefore less fatigue, but if someone wanted to be completely minimalist, can they just get away with attempting to lift ME as fast as possible?
jaymaximus
Pro
+1 on this question. Very interested since Im running westside.
weighted chinup
Well-known Member
Westside is a different scenario because it is mixed-qualities training, therefore a separate DE day is very important. The way mixed-qualities training trains these qualities and the specific ways of training certain qualities is extremely important. Any kind of mixed qualities training whether its Russian conjugate method, westside, etc) gives special consideration to the different qualities, ME,RE,DE, etc. A minimalist approach to training qualities isn't ideal, the specificity is good for these routines. It's how they create champions.
jaymaximus
Pro
Noted. I withdraw my +1. Thanks WC.
Alright all you accessory guys. Considering SBD sleeves. I measured right over the middle of my knee cap and it's basically 15in. May a cunt hair under. Calf is almost exactly the same. What size would you recommend getting. I want as much pop as possible and still be able to get them on
RodgerThat
New Member
Get the snug fit size for what you measure if you measure on the top end of snug fit if not size down for maximum pop but realize you will have an issue getting them on bank 5+ minutes into your workout with tight SBD sleeves. This being said I'm on my 3rd pair of SBD sleeves they are amazing! (3rd pair because I keep growing for some stupid reason 
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Get the snug fit size for what you measure if you measure on the top end of snug fit if not size down for maximum pop but realize you will have an issue getting them on bank 5+ minutes into your workout with tight SBD sleeves. This being said I'm on my 3rd pair of SBD sleeves they are amazing! (3rd pair because I keep growing for some stupid reason
I guess that's the part I'm struggling with. I'm not comprehending the sizing chart so well
. I believe 15 is the upper end of the large so that would mean a large would probably suite me well correct?
RodgerThat
New Member
10-4 I understand what your asking now stand by
RodgerThat
New Member
Alright so we have the same size legs (I dunno how because you are well beyond what I look and lift but okay cool I'm as big in one aspect as rob) I wear size large for my day to day and I reccomend you purchase size large as well. They take about 2 mins to put on and feel snug and give decent pop. I have a pair of mediums and smalls as well, the smalls take about 20 mins to get on and add 30 pounds to my total and he mediums take about 10 mins to get on and add next to nothing to my total so if you want a comfortable size that had pop and can wear all workout then large. If you are looking for maximum pop but have to take them off faster then needing to go piss after a 16 hour road trip with no stops then go small. Sizing to medium will give you no advantage beyond making you sweat and tiring yourself out trying to get them on.
Not from my understanding no. A true ME lift will requires force production but it will lack the time aspect to create power, ie bar speed will be slow no matter how hard you try to maximally accelerate the bar.
You will still use the fast twitch muscle fibers but not in a way that teaches explosiveness. Max effort will use most if not all your muscle fibers, fast and slow, bc of Henneman's size principle I believe. It states that muscles fibers are recruited as needed which is all or near all in a max effort lift but again, this isn't teaching the dynamic effort.
weighted chinup
Well-known Member
Thanks. That's disappointing, but not surprising.
Now I have a question about your second point lol. Doesn't ME recruit HTMU / FAST MU's almost exclusively? I was under the impression this was the case, ME work is more efficient at recruiting fast mu's but doing sub-maximal work will expose you to a greater number of mu's (slow and fast) than ME.
I've been using this chart, but maybe I'm looking at it wrong. Maximal effort is on the right side of the chart. Note the "corridors", those are the MU's being trained during that part of the lift.
Zatsiorsky is basically saying ME work only gets exposed to fast mu's, hence the smaller corridor, but the benefits outweigh the negatives.
Am I completely retarded or am I just looking at this wrong?
I'm not trying to be pedantic but this chart and MU recruitment has been on my mind a lot lately, I'm trying to make sure I have it down.
I have rehbands for comfort. I need pop these would be bought in place of wraps. So I could still squeeze in smalls
RodgerThat
New Member
When we say squeeze I'm sayings tight tight squeeze and you won't be able to keep them on for multiple sets and it takes longer then wraps to put on, if your thinking for competition then ya it'll work cause that's what I'm going to do but just for training or even training 1rm I think it's overkill. We are talking using shoe horns and long synthetic socks so it'll slide past your calf. Oh and that's another thing measure your calf cause if it's bigger then mine there I no way you'd get it on lol
Perrin Aybara
Master
My knee is about 14.9in/38cm, I'm thinking I need XL for a comfort fit on the sleeves? I'm not worried about pop as I have wraps for that, but I also don't want them too loose where they don't provide support.
I think that the hardest thing about lifting is mental discipline - finding your own way in an ocean of information, ignoring the fads and new useless supplements, sticking to a plan and objectively analyzing your records, etc, etc, etc.
The truth is that we all respond differently, based on hundreds of factors. Form, exercise selection, intensity and volume, how to cut weight and how to peak, everything. OTOH, we have to try something to see if it works, and it makes sense to start with the tried and true instead of the new and shiny, IMO.
For dead, that leaves us with a range of successful approaches from do them all the time to don't do them at all... Hard to know where to start. I'd say that learning how to pull a heavy single is the important factor for most folks - different form and mindset than when pulling for reps. I've been a DL 'specialist', because of the way I'm built, for 30 years, and I still tweak my form a bit. But I only pull singles, and not more than a few of them. Power cleans also require learning to get right and do safely, but for me they are most of my DL workload. I feel like I get more than enough general leg and back work from SQ training.
Perrin Aybara
Master
I'm still fairly new to powerlifting (less than two years) and I've never had a coach and I don't even know anyone that's into powerlifting outside of the internet, so I've had to learn what I know on my own. For now I've just been trying the popular (and less popular) programs for a few months each and figuring out what works for me and also reading what I can get my hands on.
Yeah, I think had I started with power cleans when I first started and kept them up they could have been useful. Now I think my deadlift is too far ahead, so I'd really need to play catch up with them.
For now my approach to deadlift has just been to deadlift twice a week, no extra work or variations. I thought keeping it simple as long as possible would be the way to go and introduce more complex stuff later as necessary. I pulled 585 a couple weeks ago, should hit 600 at my meet next month. I recently switched to sumo, although either form feels pretty natural to me. I don't have the consistency with sumo yet though.
I think you should pick a style and stick with it, probably forever but at least for years. It takes a long time to get your dead down. Conventional is the way to go for most everyone, unless you have a good reason to switch, IMO.
DL is the most important lift in full 3-lift PL. If you have a good squat and decent bench, you can take 1st with a very good dead. It's by far the most specific lift, with small form mods making a huge difference in your results. But it takes 6-9 months or longer to know if your adjustment did you any good, so major changes or a large number of small ones us a bad idea. I have to pull heavy in the gym to know I'm not getting sloppy, so I'll work up to 3 or so singles once a week, but never with so much weight that I have to kill myself or go crazy to get it lifted. Maybe 90%. Whatever I can lift without a major psyche-up in the gym is my meet opener, which guarantees a total (and might win the meet). Then I try to drive myself nuts for the rest of the attempts.
Power clean singles and doubles, clean variations, stiff leg 3s and 5s, Jeffersons and hacks, and thick bar hammer curls are pretty much the rest of it. Good luck at your meet, see if you can meet some lifters who live near you. Training partners are almost crucial.
DL is the most important lift in full 3-lift PL. If you have a good squat and decent bench, you can take 1st with a very good dead. It's by far the most specific lift, with small form mods making a huge difference in your results. But it takes 6-9 months or longer to know if your adjustment did you any good, so major changes or a large number of small ones us a bad idea. I have to pull heavy in the gym to know I'm not getting sloppy, so I'll work up to 3 or so singles once a week, but never with so much weight that I have to kill myself or go crazy to get it lifted. Maybe 90%. Whatever I can lift without a major psyche-up in the gym is my meet opener, which guarantees a total (and might win the meet). Then I try to drive myself nuts for the rest of the attempts.
Power clean singles and doubles, clean variations, stiff leg 3s and 5s, Jeffersons and hacks, and thick bar hammer curls are pretty much the rest of it. Good luck at your meet, see if you can meet some lifters who live near you. Training partners are almost crucial.
No, ME work will recruit all or close to all MUs. I think you're confusing recruitment with exhaustion? Look at the right side of the diagram under maximal weight. See how all the circles are blacked in? That means all MUs were recruited but not necessarily exhausted.
The bottom circles represent type I fibers and as you go up they go to type II A and then to type II B. The type II B fibers get exhausted first but get recruited last in ME work based on Henneman's Size Principle.
ME work is more efficient in recruiting fast twitch fibers in that it requires less reps when compared to submaximal work but as the chart shows in the right most column in the submaximal side under "Last Rep", all the circles are blacked in as well which means it recruited the same muscle fibers. The difference being the "in-set volume/amount of reps" it took to get there. There are some other differences in what it "teaches" the MUs but they'll both work similar amounts and types.
Correct. The corridor is the MUs that are being trained which by definition receive the input from the training stimulus and adapt after recovery. The blacked circles below the bottom threshold of the corridor represent the MUs that are recruited BUT NOT exhausted and no blank circles bc all MUs are being recruited (Slow and fast) as I said above where I thought you confused recruitment with exhaustion.
No, he's saying only the type II MU get trained and thus adapt, hence the smaller corridor, but all get recruited, hence them being all blacked out.
Am I completely retarded or am I just looking at this wrong?
I'm not trying to be pedantic but this chart and MU recruitment has been on my mind a lot lately, I'm trying to make sure I have it down.
This is how I read the chart giving an example:
Imagine on the left side, submaximal side, you're working with your 10RM. The first column shows the first rep done in the set. Based on Henneman's size principle, you are fresh that first rep/no fatigue and since it's low demand it only uses the bottom 3 circles of fibers or your slow twitch fibers, maybe dipping into some faster MUs very quickly. they're blacked out as "recruited but not exhausted" bc it was 1 rep with your 10RM load. So these MUs got recruited but not exhausted hence no corridor. The training stimulus was not enough to warrant an adaptation.
The middle column or "intermediate lift" represents let's say doing 5 reps with the same 10RM load. Now, more fast twitch MUs are recruited bc fatigue sets in which also exhausts some of the fast twitch MUs. Below the first line, slow twitch, are black/recruited but not exhausted, in between the two corridor lines are the fast twitch MUs that were trained bc they were recruited AND exhausted. Above the upper corridor line shows fast twitch MUs that were neither exhausted nor recruited and not trained.
The "last rep" column shows taking your 10RM and doing a set of 10 with it, basically taken to failure. At this point, all MUs are worked and you get a maximal number of fast twitch MU recruitment and exhaustion hence the larger corridor.
The maximal weight side recruits all MUs like the submaximal taken to failure does but the corridor is smaller bc there's less time spent under the load so not as many of the fast twitch MUs will get exhausted.
weighted chinup
Well-known Member
This is a perfect explanation. I've been having trouble understanding it but I think I have it down now. Thanks doc.
