Obama - the failed president

[flenser]

There is no regulation from congress telling lenders to give loans to people who cant afford them. Are you actually trying to say regulations caused the housing crisis and financial institutions shouldnt be regulated?

I actually like you man and im really hoping I misinterpreted your post!

I'm saying regulations fueled the bubble. Would the banks have screwed it up anyway? I'm of the opinion they wouldn't have done without the CRA and similar state and city laws, as well as buyer subsidies masking the high probability of default.

The Government Did It

From the article:

"The CRA forces banks to make loans in poor communities, loans that banks may otherwise reject as financially unsound. Under the CRA, banks must convince a set of bureaucracies that they are not engaging in discrimination, a charge that the act encourages any CRA-recognized community group to bring forward. Otherwise, any merger or expansion the banks attempt will likely be denied. But what counts as discrimination?

"According to one enforcement agency, “discrimination exists when a lender’s underwriting policies contain arbitrary or outdated criteria that effectively disqualify many urban or lower-income minority applicants.” Note that these “arbitrary or outdated criteria” include most of the essentials of responsible lending: income level, income verification, credit history and savings history–the very factors lenders are now being criticized for ignoring."​

There is more to it than the Forbes article covers, but it does give you the part you are directly challenging.

 

[kawilt]

"he would not restore the deposits or charter of the national bank even under torture by the ten Spanish Inquisitions and that he would rather live in the wilds of Arabia than a country with a national bank."
Andrew Jackson's comments on the National Bank.

"pay the national debt, to prevent a monied aristocracy from growing up around our administration that must bend to its views, and ultimately destroy the liberty of our country.”
Thomas Jefferson

 

[tenpoundsleft]

I'm saying regulations fueled the bubble. Would the banks have screwed it up anyway? I'm of the opinion they wouldn't have done without the CRA and similar state and city laws, as well as buyer subsidies masking the high probability of default.

The Government Did It

From the article:

"The CRA forces banks to make loans in poor communities, loans that banks may otherwise reject as financially unsound. Under the CRA, banks must convince a set of bureaucracies that they are not engaging in discrimination, a charge that the act encourages any CRA-recognized community group to bring forward. Otherwise, any merger or expansion the banks attempt will likely be denied. But what counts as discrimination?

"According to one enforcement agency, “discrimination exists when a lender’s underwriting policies contain arbitrary or outdated criteria that effectively disqualify many urban or lower-income minority applicants.” Note that these “arbitrary or outdated criteria” include most of the essentials of responsible lending: income level, income verification, credit history and savings history–the very factors lenders are now being criticized for ignoring."​

There is more to it than the Forbes article covers, but it does give you the part you are directly challenging.

Yep - if you find something that is truly fucked up - look for a law and a book full of regulations, those are bound to be right nearby. Or a labor union.

If we go back a few years, Senator Barney Frank was busy fucking things up during his entire time in Congress: back in 2003 he blocked tightened oversight over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying “These two entities --- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,” and, “I want to roll the dice a little bit more in this situation towards subsidized housing.” Thankfully this Bostonian asshole is retired now.

But he left us a "present" that keeps on screwing us over - the legislation known as Dodd-Frank (The Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act was signed into federal law by President Barack Obama on July 21, 2010.) keeps fucking things up for the financial services space. Remember those community banks you used to see? Dodd-Frank killed them.

Scratch a bit further and you find that the root cause goes back to at least the Savings & Loans crisis in the 80s - loading that crap onto the Freddie, Fannie, and Ginnie beasts didn't help. FYI, Democrats solidly ran Congress then.

In 1992, the busy beavers among Democrats forced Fannie and Freddie to get into the "affordable housing" game - and we know how that turned out.

But "subsidized housing" is what started it, banks had to lend "subprime" - meaning underwrite loans to people with crap credit. And this of course created the toxic assets that brought the banks down. First gov't creates the problem, and then comes up with a "fix" that makes it worse. Typical.

@XKawN
@DedLift

 

[tenpoundsleft]

 

[XKawN]

Who were the ones really getting rich?
The banks. They sold loans that were DESIGNED to fail and they still made money.

banks don't get rich. People do. Politicians and the bankers. They are in bed together.

 

[Big_paul]

 

[XKawN]

Not all regulation is the same. There is good regulation and bad regulation. Good regulation helps keep us safe and protects us. There should of been regulation saying you can only give loans to people who can justify them.

There should be regulation against banks selling loans that are designed to fail and the bank still makes money.

There should be regulation against predatory lending and payday loans, gambling with people's retirement.

The lack of regulation created the recession and nothing has been dramatically changed to prevent another. The worst part is now taxpayers are on the hook for supporting banks!

Fuck that. Let them fail. The lack of regulation has created this nightmare that is our reality. The market has never policed itself.

This mantra of no regulation was created by the instiutions that profit from it. Its amazing to me that regular middleclass people have been so easily brainwashed to be the mouthpiece of the people in power.

Republicans preach doing away with harmful, restrictive regulations and they are demonized as ones who don't want any regulations. Republicans wanted regulations against giving the loans out to people that couldn't afford the loans and they were accused of being racist. Then there went the housing market.

 

[Big_paul]

Republicans preach doing away with harmful, restrictive regulations and they are demonized as ones who don't want any regulations. Republicans wanted regulations against giving the loans out to people that couldn't afford the loans and they were accused of being racist. Then there went the housing market.

The financial crisis of 2008 was a bipartisan effort going back years. Clinton signed the bill that did away with the protections of Glass-steagall, which was put in place to protect us from a similar crisis years before. There are no innocents in DC. They are pimps and we are their bitches. As long as the population remains stupid, things will not change.

 

[XKawN]

The financial crisis of 2008 was a bipartisan effort going back years. Clinton signed the bill that did away with the protections of Glass-steagall, which was put in place to protect us from a similar crisis years before. There are no innocents in DC. They are pimps and we are their bitches. As long as the population remains stupid, things will not change.

I agree that both sides are guilty of bad policies. I remember watching the congressional hearings where Republicans were trying to stop the housing market from crashing. They were trying to add regulations and stop the loans being given to those who couldn't afford it. They brought economists in to show the damn was about to break and the Democrats were literally yelling at Republicans calling them racist. I realize glass stiegal is where it pretty much started, but I'm referring to just before it popped. All hands had a part in the economy crashing, but the housing market part was the Democrats.

 

[Big_paul]

T

I agree that both sides are guilty of bad policies. I remember watching the congressional hearings where Republicans were trying to stop the housing market from crashing. They were trying to add regulations and stop the loans being given to those who couldn't afford it. They brought economists in to show the damn was about to break and the Democrats were literally yelling at Republicans calling them racist. I realize glass stiegal is where it pretty much started, but I'm referring to just before it popped. All hands had a part in the economy crashing, but the housing market part was the Democrats.

The thing is that our government works best for everyone else but the little people. The people should finance our elections and any elected politicians found to be corrupt, I say we get medieval to set the proper example. Every fucking day they make fools of us. I for one resent that.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

The financial crisis of 2008 was a bipartisan effort going back years. Clinton signed the bill that did away with the protections of Glass-steagall, which was put in place to protect us from a similar crisis years before. There are no innocents in DC. They are pimps and we are their bitches. As long as the population remains stupid, things will not change.

You didn't read my post with a tally of the causes? Solidly Democrats to pin that on, don't drag Republicans into that ring.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

I agree that both sides are guilty of bad policies. I remember watching the congressional hearings where Republicans were trying to stop the housing market from crashing. They were trying to add regulations and stop the loans being given to those who couldn't afford it. They brought economists in to show the damn was about to break and the Democrats were literally yelling at Republicans calling them racist. I realize glass stiegal is where it pretty much started, but I'm referring to just before it popped. All hands had a part in the economy crashing, but the housing market part was the Democrats.

And THAT is why the current mess is squarely on the Democrats.

 

[Big_paul]

You didn't read my post with a tally of the causes? Solidly Democrats to pin that on, don't drag Republicans into that ring.

Go fuck yourself dipshit. Your stupidity is wearing on me.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

Go fuck yourself dipshit. Your stupidity is wearing on me.

So I'm the stupid one? Despite my being able to articulate a reasoned position based on historical facts? While you stand on your typical ad hominems and a jumble of feelings and misconceptions. Nice one.

It's my thread - so if anyone should scamper off it's you. If you chose to reply, do try to make it factual.

 

[kawilt]

So I'm the stupid one? Despite my being able to articulate a reasoned position based on historical facts? While you stand on your typical ad hominems and a jumble of feelings and misconceptions. Nice one.

It's my thread - so if anyone should scamper off it's you. If you chose to reply, do try to make it factual.

So I'm the stupid one? Despite my being able to articulate a reasoned position based on historical facts?

Well...I believe I might disagree with that a bit.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

Well...I believe I might disagree with that a bit.

Try to formulate a counter then, instead of sharing your emotions, snowflake.

 

[XKawN]

T

The thing is that our government works best for everyone else but the little people. The people should finance our elections and any elected politicians found to be corrupt, I say we get medieval to set the proper example. Every fucking day they make fools of us. I for one resent that.

That's would work for me. Problem with getting medieval on the corrupt politicians is the left tend to think when the left does something illegal or immoral that it's not illegal or immoral and same with the right. There's truly no such thing as unbiased politics, lol.

 

[XKawN]

You didn't read my post with a tally of the causes? Solidly Democrats to pin that on, don't drag Republicans into that ring.

Democrats had there hand in it no doubt. Bush coming in with tax cuts and a gazillion dollar war/wars in that time didn't help. Wonder how much shock and awe costs us. Bush sacked ass as a president. Grew the government like a true Democrat, grew the debt and invasive laws. Bush helped wreck this country just as much as anybody.

 

[flenser]

Democrats had there hand in it no doubt. Bush coming in with tax cuts and a gazillion dollar war/wars in that time didn't help. Wonder how much shock and awe costs us. Bush sacked ass as a president. Grew the government like a true Democrat, grew the debt and invasive laws. Bush helped wreck this country just as much as anybody.

He also passed the largest most expensive and oppressive socialized health care plan ever, until Obama. I'm counting on Trump to surprise his supporters and make things even worse.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

Democrats had there hand in it no doubt. Bush coming in with tax cuts and a gazillion dollar war/wars in that time didn't help. Wonder how much shock and awe costs us. Bush sacked ass as a president. Grew the government like a true Democrat, grew the debt and invasive laws. Bush helped wreck this country just as much as anybody.

Absolutely, he was a RINO in pure form. Those years were a total disappointment, the "PATRIOT" act for example.

But even measured against W Bush, the current guy is a far greater disaster. W had all the 9/11 crap to deal with so he can be excused to some degree.

Obama on the other hand got a financial "crisis" that was of his party's making, and then he applied 1930s Keynesian "solutions" that didn't even work back then. Here we are, almost $10 trillion later.