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picholas
New Member
@Sargon
You should bump the Test P up to 150 EOD and run the whole cycle for 8-12 weeks. Possibly bump the anavar up to 50mg ED...but I wouldn't run the anavar longer than 6 weeks....preferbly at the back end (weeks 6-12, 4-10, or 2-8 depending on how long you run the cycle) don't know why he has it listed for 9 weeks.
Also discontinue the NPP 2 weeks before the Test P and you can start PCT 5 days to a week after your last pin.
Also I would recommend Nolvadex vs Fareston, people worry about the slight rise in progesterone but it is very very minimal and with Nolvadex is an antagonist as well.
It is more than sufficient for PCT and gyno related sides. It also is great at lowering cholesterol while Fareston is not.
Pharmacom Helper
Subscriber
Hello Sir, I will check!
Pharmacom Helper
Subscriber
*bump the Test P up to 150 EOD --- for what?
What the point to raise testo dosages when you have access to other AAS, without side effects like aromatisation or androgenic side effects like acne or alopecia? If you are not a pro atlet, you don't need big testo dosages, 200-400mg of short ester or 400-600mg of long esters more than enough. Large part of your cycle must be created by other AAS.
*and run the whole cycle for 8-12 weeks. --- Use short esters (often injections) for 12 weeks? I don't see reason for this. max 8 week or use long esters. Of course if you are not a fan of some kind of masochism.
*Possibly bump the anavar up to 50mg ED...but I wouldn't run the anavar longer than 6 weeks....preferbly at the back end (weeks 6-12, 4-10, or 2-8 depending on how long you run the cycle) don't know why he has it listed for 9 weeks. --- I also don't see reason to use protocols like a few weeks on the beginning or to the end, specially to anavar, better take anavar with small doses but during whole cycle rather than small parts of cycle with bid doses. Besides 20-30mg of anavar are almost never raise transaminases in most cases. We have atlets who use anavar more than 6 months without problems - transaminases in normal refs, ultrasound doesn't show toxic hepatitis or steatosis (fatty liver) - so in conclusion for liver better small doses of oral AAS longer time, than big doses but short time.
*don't know why he has it listed for 9 weeks. --- not so big necessary to use anavar untill 9 weeks, he can stop on week 8. No problem
*Also discontinue the NPP 2 weeks before the Test P and you can start PCT 5 days to a week after your last pin. --- for what? He can stop use both of them and start PCT week after last injections without any problems and hindrances.
*Also I would recommend nolvadex vs Fareston, people worry about the slight rise in progesterone but it is very very minimal and with Nolvadex is an antagonist as well. --- I recommend him to use Fareston not because he use nandrolones, reason was that fareston don't have so much side effects as nolva have. To our needs fareston more preferable as tamox, and if person can afford to buy fareston I recommend him to buy fareston.
*It is more than sufficient for PCT and gyno related sides. It also is great at lowering cholesterol while Fareston is not. It is more than sufficient for PCT and gyno related sides.
---Based from our practice/research fareston shows better result in gyno treatment and PCT than tamox and without side effects which occur when using tamox.
About lowering cholesterole you can read japan studies -"effects of toremifene (TOR) and tamoxifen (TAM) on serum lipids in postmenopasal patients with breast cancer" Briefly - fareston better than tamox.
By the way using SERMs like tamox or fareston to improve lipid panel when you are on cycle or PCT, not best idea, if you want normalize your lipids on cycle, you need statins (atorvastatin or rosuvastatin) if you are on PCT or just want preventive measures - you can use lovastatin.
Summarize:
Fareston chemical structure and pharmacology is close to tamox, but fareston has an chlorine atom, which is stabilizing molecule and decreasing the formation of aggressive metabolites that cause DNA damage.
Toxicity
Mutagenicity in vivo
Tamox - Causes chromosome damage in liver cells.
Fareston - NO.
Education DNA adducts
Tamox - Induces a significant amount adducts of DNA in liver cells (transversions, inversions and deletion) - genotoxic. Formation of adducts in leukocytes and endometrium.
Fareston - NO.
Vision
Tamox - cataracts, less other - retinopathy.
Fareston - hardly ever.
Carcinogenicity
Tamox - induced hepatic cell carcinoma, endometrial cancer, GI tract cancer.
Fareston - NO.
picholas
New Member
1.) Test Prop at 150mg EOD gives you 450-600 mg/wk and A LOT of people run test higher than NPP or other 19-nors. That isn't a BIG dose by any stretch of the imagination. "Large parte of your cycle must be created by other AAS" -- Where did you get this gem from?
2.) To run PCT after NPP he would need the NPP to clear first, so you discontinue the NPP 2 weeks prior to Test Prop, run just the Test for 2 more weeks, then a week after last Test injection you can begin PCT. If he wanted to run NPP for 8 weeks then 2 more of just test for 10, if he wanted to run it 10 weeks then 2 more for 12. Again, pretty standard.
3.) Smaller doses of Anavar on NPP and Test would produce negligble effects, you also put it on the back end to finish strong as you plateu and your body strives for homeostatis. I agree with kickstarting is pointless. And you said athletes in this one, but yet above you just said "If you are not a pro"...so yes 50mg ED for 4-6 weeks is a WAY better protocal
4.) The reason is to use the Nolva once the NPP clears the system
5.) Fareston has MORE side effects than Nolva
Code:
https://www.suppreviewers.com/torem-vs-nolva-pct/I’ll check it out now. I’m always willing to learn more about all this crazy shit lol
picholas
New Member
A lot of literature says not to start PCT (especially with Nolva) until the NPP clears.
picholas
New Member
The NPP is the wildcard, not the ester. Even though it is a short ester of nandrolone there are metabolites left around for long periods of time.
The controversy is that these metabolites can hinder your recovery.
That's the reason for stopping the NPP prior to the Test Prop, but if it was just Test Prop in question 5-7 day wait before PCT would suffice.
To my understanding
ironwill1951
New Member
just because he is a rep doesn't mean anything. reps are sales people like used car salesman they may talk the talk but cant even change a tire.
Lean_N_Mean
New Member
Reps are mostly pretty knowledgeable in their fields and I tend to trust the ones pushing less product than more and especially not pushing a brand. The only thing I disagree with @Pharmacom Helper on is that everyone’s different and their body’s all process stuff based on health, diet, metabolism, and lots of other factors like existing high BP ext.. So giving a blind dose recommendation can be tough and mostly just used as a guideline anyhow. It’s a good guideline but I’ve never found any dose of Anavar less than 40mg to 50mg ED to be useful. That’s just me though. Like I said, everyone’s different.
Esp for men. I know to get better results we need to take between 30-50 a day for no more than 6 weeks.
Tami and fare are basically viagra and cialis...
They both do similar things but one is new and more improved and carries less sides
Cialis can be taken by any healthy individual with little to no sides at a decent dose where as viagra has much more potential sides...
Same goes for fare compared to nolva or tami
Tami and fare are basically viagra and cialis...
They both do similar things but one is new and more improved and carries less sides
Cialis can be taken by any healthy individual with little to no sides at a decent dose where as viagra has much more potential sides...
Same goes for fare compared to nolva or tami
I've ran people on Var 40 new to aas and they get great results at that dose. Start low and work your way up.
RThoads
Subscriber
@ironwill1951 that is good advice and people should listen to it because I know we have all run across fools that are reps many times.
After all, it is not that easy for AAS sources to find or afford people with degrees in chemistry/biochem, molecular biology, medicine etc AND years of experience -- AND that are interested to answer questions online (small sources simply would not have access or be able to afford such employees).
However, while that may sometimes be the case, @Pharmacom Helper is a wealth of knowledge and experience -- I can tell from multiple discussion that he has a solid formal education (maybe in the medical field? I am not sure of it) and a lot of hands on life experience (likely helps coach the Pharmacom Athletes team).
While, sure, like with any two people he and I may not always agree perfectly 100% of the time (for example, I suggest other supplements some times and also I avoid statins -- we each know some different things), I greatly respect that he has VERY solid information and I know for a fact we can all learn a lot from his experience.
@Pharmacom Helper is NOT a typical rep; he is a full-time employee, an awesome asset and wealth of great information.
Thank you for taking time time and sharing all this advice my friend -- I enjoy getting a chance to read something instead of type haha
Pharmacom Helper
Subscriber
* Test Prop at 150mg EOD gives you 450-600 mg/wk and A LOT of people run test higher than NPP or other 19-nors.
----You know why they do this? I think - no. This is common misconception. Like you need to run higher testo dosages than nandrolones to avoid libido problem or stuff like that. In our practice with athlets in most cases we don't respect this misconceptions, and we see progress in blood tests, appearance and so on.
I agree that we are all different... But cycles like - testo P(PH) 100 (50)mg + NNP 100mg definitely shows better results than cycles where testo is more than nadrolones.
* Where did you get this gem from? - Dark secret, Sir
2.) To run PCT after NPP he would need the NPP to clear first, so you discontinue the NPP 2 weeks prior to Test Prop, run just the Test for 2 more weeks, then a week after last Test injection you can begin PCT. If he wanted to run NPP for 8 weeks then 2 more of just test for 10, if he wanted to run it 10 weeks then 2 more for 12. Again, pretty standard.
---Sir, no matter which AAS will come out from body first (all AAS have anabolic and androgenic effects. Sure you know that possible to do cycle without testo at all) in our case we speak about testo P and NNP, of course testo P will come out from body first - If we do 100mg testo P, so after about 5-7 days of last injection testo level nearle 0, so with NNP after 6-9 days of last injections nandrolones level will be nearle 0. This is no big deal. You can start PCT without problem.
3.) Smaller doses of Anavar on NPP and Test would produce negligble effects, you also put it on the back end to finish strong as you plateu and your body strives for homeostatis. I agree with kickstarting is pointless. And you said athletes in this one, but yet above you just said "If you are not a pro"...so yes 50mg ED for 4-6 weeks is a WAY better protocal -
--Sir, I agree with you, but in some cases some pro athletes have protocols where they can use 2-3 orals in the same time.
Question is about of usefulness of all of this. pro athlete want to be a mr. O, but we speak about guy who want cut cycle I and our medical team have many blood test from our athletes and respectively got some experiense. Therefore I recommend small doses long time for amateurs. I can say more, in 80% cases for amateurs.. guys who use AAS can make cycles without orals at all. You just need to know your goal.
Also working with our pro athletes we do all we can to keep liver (also other system to) in good conditions even they use orals (I.V./hepatoprotective drugs and so on). And we have good results in this regard.
4.) The reason is to use the Nolva once the NPP clears the system - agree you can do this.
5.) Fareston has MORE side effects than Nolva - Here I can argue a long time because our clinical experience say otherwise. I can give you advice - instead of reading pubmed and stuff like that, just ask some doctor or pharcacologist about what better in medical practis nolva or fareston - answer will be pretty clearly.
Won't keep argue with you Sir.
I gave him some advice and he will decide listen to them or not.
----You know why they do this? I think - no. This is common misconception. Like you need to run higher testo dosages than nandrolones to avoid libido problem or stuff like that. In our practice with athlets in most cases we don't respect this misconceptions, and we see progress in blood tests, appearance and so on.
I agree that we are all different... But cycles like - testo P(PH) 100 (50)mg + NNP 100mg definitely shows better results than cycles where testo is more than nadrolones.
* Where did you get this gem from? - Dark secret, Sir
2.) To run PCT after NPP he would need the NPP to clear first, so you discontinue the NPP 2 weeks prior to Test Prop, run just the Test for 2 more weeks, then a week after last Test injection you can begin PCT. If he wanted to run NPP for 8 weeks then 2 more of just test for 10, if he wanted to run it 10 weeks then 2 more for 12. Again, pretty standard.
---Sir, no matter which AAS will come out from body first (all AAS have anabolic and androgenic effects. Sure you know that possible to do cycle without testo at all) in our case we speak about testo P and NNP, of course testo P will come out from body first - If we do 100mg testo P, so after about 5-7 days of last injection testo level nearle 0, so with NNP after 6-9 days of last injections nandrolones level will be nearle 0. This is no big deal. You can start PCT without problem.
3.) Smaller doses of Anavar on NPP and Test would produce negligble effects, you also put it on the back end to finish strong as you plateu and your body strives for homeostatis. I agree with kickstarting is pointless. And you said athletes in this one, but yet above you just said "If you are not a pro"...so yes 50mg ED for 4-6 weeks is a WAY better protocal -
--Sir, I agree with you, but in some cases some pro athletes have protocols where they can use 2-3 orals in the same time.
Question is about of usefulness of all of this. pro athlete want to be a mr. O, but we speak about guy who want cut cycle
I and our medical team have many blood test from our athletes and respectively got some experiense. Therefore I recommend small doses long time for amateurs. I can say more, in 80% cases for amateurs.. guys who use AAS can make cycles without orals at all. You just need to know your goal.Also working with our pro athletes we do all we can to keep liver (also other system to) in good conditions even they use orals (I.V./hepatoprotective drugs and so on). And we have good results in this regard.
4.) The reason is to use the Nolva once the NPP clears the system - agree you can do this.
5.) Fareston has MORE side effects than Nolva - Here I can argue a long time
because our clinical experience say otherwise. I can give you advice - instead of reading pubmed and stuff like that, just ask some doctor or pharcacologist about what better in medical practis nolva or fareston - answer will be pretty clearly.Won't keep argue with you Sir.
I gave him some advice and he will decide listen to them or not.
picholas
New Member
@ironwill1951 that is good advice and people should listen to it because I know we have all run across fools that are reps many times.
After all, it is not that easy for AAS sources to find or afford people with degrees in chemistry/biochem, molecular biology, medicine etc AND years of experience -- AND that are interested to answer questions online (small sources simply would not have access or be able to afford such employees).
However, while that may sometimes be the case, @Pharmacom Helper is a wealth of knowledge and experience -- I can tell from multiple discussion that he has a solid formal education (maybe in the medical field? I am not sure of it) and a lot of hands on life experience (likely helps coach the Pharmacom Athletes team).
While, sure, like with any two people he and I may not always agree perfectly 100% of the time (for example, I suggest other supplements some times and also I avoid statins -- we each know some different things), I greatly respect that he has VERY solid information and I know for a fact we can all learn a lot from his experience.
@Pharmacom Helper is NOT a typical rep; he is a full-time employee, an awesome asset and wealth of great information.
Thank you for taking time time and sharing all this advice my friend -- I enjoy getting a chance to read something instead of type haha
Read the thread and post with studies I quoted mands on please, then if you will, kindly provide feedback/thoughts.
Thanks in advanced.
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