Primobolan - underrated for muscle gain?

[ThinkDeroid]

Let’s be honest…. If you’re a healthy individual, you can’t honestly think you’re gonna die from adding primo into your trt do you? I’ve been blasting and cruising for literally 20 years, just had my heart xray, ecg, ultrasound, and ekg performed and guess what… all 100% normal with zero growth. The fact of the matter is, it’s all genetically dependent. Same for the 95 year old piece of trailer trash who lives off of bologne and mayonnaise and has smoked a pack of cigarettes for 70 years but is still kicking.

Well, let's be honest, just because you're doing this doesn't mean the next guy can. Primo, in general, is not safe for long term usage. T above 100mg/w neither. People just cope hard on that stuff and lie to their faces that "sport's TRT" is something real. Also, I am on 1g gear right now and tell myself it's safe because I get looks from cute girls. The cardiologist I go to says it's an addiction, nothing about "healthy lifestyle".

As far as the Aneurysm, that also happens to completely healthy, random people who have never touched iron and gear in their life. Unless it was genetic, That aneurysm was more than likely caused by the immense pressure from the heavy lifting we perform on a daily basis, not even accounting for the massive constipated shits we take from eating 3lbs of meat daily

He probably did heavy squats as he was talking about neck pain the night before dying. Also, I doubt it was just T+P, probably more stuff like Clen and HGH and so on. I forgot his name but 1+ million followers on ig. I met him once in Pattaya. Typical German, like me.

 

[makeway]

Well, let's be honest, just because you're doing this doesn't mean the next guy can. Primo, in general, is not safe for long term usage. T above 100mg/w neither. People just cope hard on that stuff and lie to their faces that "sport's TRT" is something real. Also, I am on 1g gear right now and tell myself it's safe because I get looks from cute girls. The cardiologist I go to says it's an addiction, nothing about "healthy lifestyle".



He probably did heavy squats as he was talking about neck pain the night before dying. Also, I doubt it was just T+P, probably more stuff like Clen and HGH and so on. I forgot his name but 1+ million followers on ig. I met him once in Pattaya. Typical German, like me.

There is a big difference between running 1g of gear, and running 200 primo. There is plenty of scientific evidence regarding the negative side effects of high dose testosterone, HGH, nandrolone, clen, tren, sarms, etc…. But I would love to see your evidence regarding low dose primo.

 

[ThinkDeroid]

There is a big difference between running 1g of gear, and running 200 primo. There is plenty of scientific evidence regarding the negative side effects of high dose testosterone, HGH, nandrolone, clen, tren, sarms, etc…. But I would love to see your evidence regarding low dose primo.

There's no need to go into a debate with you as you have proven that it's healthy for everybody since it's healthy for you.

For every healthy 90 year old doing X there are hundreds of people died half that age.

 

[makeway]

There's no need to go into a debate with you as you have proven that it's healthy for everybody since it's healthy for you.

For every healthy 90 year old doing X there are hundreds of people died half that age.

That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m just saying show me some evidence as I am always willing to learn and expand my knowledge base.

If you can’t show me any despite the vast amounts that exist for literally every other compound including Anavar, then I’d say it’s highly unlikely, especially given the near zero effect do bloods and lipid profile.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m just saying show me some evidence as I am always willing to learn and expand my knowledge base.

If you can’t show me any despite the vast amounts that exist for literally every other compound including Anavar, then I’d say it’s highly unlikely, especially given the near zero effect do bloods and lipid profile.

thats a pretty broad strawman argument.

"show me studies that its safe for TRT"

Honestly, There are risks with everything we do. people just need to be educated, and dont be in denial that what we are doing is harmless.

one can argue that the e2 crash it may cause people is bad for their overall health long term.

 

[makeway]

thats a pretty broad strawman argument.

"show me studies that its safe for TRT"

Honestly, There are risks with everything we do. people just need to be educated, and dont be in denial that what we are doing is harmless.

one can argue that the e2 crash it may cause people is bad for their overall health long term.

If that’s what I was saying, I would agree. But I’m not saying show me the studies that say it’s not good for TRT, I’m saying; show me a study that shows any serious negative side effects from low doses.

But I do agree with you regarding e2. Crashed E2 will wreak havoc on your CV system.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

If that’s what I was saying, I would agree. But I’m not saying show me the studies that say it’s not good for TRT, I’m saying; show me a study that shows any serious negative side effects from low doses.

But I do agree with you regarding e2. Crashed E2 will wreak havoc on your CV system.

they wont have much information on using it in low doses. especially now.

I would anticipate it would affect e2 for most men even at 100.

 

[gx52a]

There's a reason they prescribe this stuff to old Japanese ladies with muscle wasting. You really can't find a milder compound.

But personally, I think using an AAS as my AI is fantastic, and I'm willing to give up some gains if it means I'm putting less stress on my body. Sure, for most of us, AAS won't be the thing to punch our ticket, but I'm not interested in pushing my luck any more than necessary.

If PIP is the deal breaker for you and money is not, you can always dose it orally. According to the Japanese pharmaceutical inserts, oral Primo A is has about 70% of the bioavailablity of an equivalent mass of IM Primo E. The main issue is the half life, you need to take a dose ~4x daily to keep a reasonably consistent systemic concentration.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

I can justify taking primobolan orally if that works instead of AI.
But no way I’m wasting precious ml’s just to have an “anabolic” AI. After all I’m dialed in to the T with readily available in all pharmacies AI and Testosterone , can blast any fucking dosage or cruise with my estro in check.
So for me primobolan it’s not worth it unless on a good price and orally then I see it’s worth. I can add a more anabolic effect without pin more , without stressing my liver and on top of that managing my estrogen.
Any other scenario primo is out equipoise gives much better aesthetics and anabolism overall.

 

[Klimmzugernie]

Hello,

I‘m still learning about PEDs but during my research I‘ve often seen Primo being called a weak and mild steroid that only has a place in a cutting phase.

However, I‘ve recently found an interesting study on the r/steroids wiki:
View: https://imgur.com/f4paBmR
Primo is basically as potent as Testosterone and only slightly worse than Nandrolone according to this chart.

I‘m here to ask about anecdotal experiences with a Test + Primo cycle, especially during a (lean) bulking phase. How does it compare to traditional bulking compounds?

good morning sunshine.

All steroids are compareable regarding the potency to elevate the protein synthesis.

Other parameters regarding the selection of components are much more interesting.
-Price, availability and authenticity
-Side effect profile
-Can I tolerate the steroid?

Basically, I agree with Viktor Black's approach, even though I think he's a huge asshole.

Avoid an AI if possible.
Avoid orals unless you are preparing for a competition.

Boost your testosterone as high as you can manage the side effects with a moderate dosage of a drostanolone. I would settle with Drosta at 700-1000mg. If that's not enough, add a Primobolan. But be careful. Primo is not well tolerated by many in terms of libido and sexual ability.

Pay attention to blood fats.

Don't take nandrolone. Damaging cells, damaging the brain and docks too many receptors that do not play a crucial role in hypertrophy.

Stay away from DHB. It's just too toxic and offers no benefit.
Stay away from EQ. Drives you crazy, difficult to manage estrogen. Hematocrit goes up too quickly.
Tren only in small doses <200mg / wk for anti-catabolic effect.

In the end there are only 3 steroids left. Testosterone, Drostanolone and Primobolan. All in all, if dosed correctly you can easily get over 3g. Which should be more than enough for most people in the open class.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

good morning sunshine.

All steroids are compareable regarding the potency to elevate the protein synthesis.

Other parameters regarding the selection of components are much more interesting.
-Price, availability and authenticity
-Side effect profile
-Can I tolerate the steroid?

Basically, I agree with Viktor Black's approach, even though I think he's a huge asshole.

Avoid an AI if possible.
Avoid orals unless you are preparing for a competition.

Boost your testosterone as high as you can manage the side effects with a moderate dosage of a drostanolone. I would settle with Drosta at 700-1000mg. If that's not enough, add a Primobolan. But be careful. Primo is not well tolerated by many in terms of libido and sexual ability.

Pay attention to blood fats.

Don't take nandrolone. Damaging cells, damaging the brain and docks too many receptors that do not play a crucial role in hypertrophy.

Stay away from DHB. It's just too toxic and offers no benefit.
Stay away from EQ. Drives you crazy, difficult to manage estrogen. Hematocrit goes up too quickly.
Tren only in small doses <200mg / wk for anti-catabolic effect.

In the end there are only 3 steroids left. Testosterone, Drostanolone and Primobolan. All in all, if dosed correctly you can easily get over 3g. Which should be more than enough for most people in the open class.

Don’t act like drostalone is a saint steroid it irritates prostate too much.
It also hits lipids especially HDL can cause some mineral imbalance especially at the dosages you’re stating.
Can give low e2 sides and can make estro management a pain in the ass.
With high e2 (without symptoms due to mast) and high DHT guess what hit the prostate gonna take.
I won’t even mention the balding issue as this is not a valid side effect for me.

I know for a fact that I would grow better on 200 testosterone 400 nandrolone rather than 200 test 1000 mast (I wouldn’t be able to piss let alone make gains).
And in fact with 200 test 400 nand I would have much less strain on my body due to total anabolic load and androgenic load.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

And it’s fucking obvious you don’t grow the same on masteron primo vs test nand
If that was the case the bread n butter growing stack would be mast primo test and not test dbol deca.
Yeah we maybe didn’t have the science back then but it’s fucking obvious to the naked eye that you don’t grow the same on DHT’s vs the heavy hitters , and I’m not talking about water retention (but even water retention it’s secondary “extra” that would push the growth a little tad further).

 

[effswithtren]

Primo is dumb and I’m tired of pretending that it’s not.

 

[effswithtren]

I can justify taking primobolan orally if that works instead of AI.
But no way I’m wasting precious ml’s just to have an “anabolic” AI. After all I’m dialed in to the T with readily available in all pharmacies AI and Testosterone , can blast any fucking dosage or cruise with my estro in check.
So for me primobolan it’s not worth it unless on a good price and orally then I see it’s worth. I can add a more anabolic effect without pin more , without stressing my liver and on top of that managing my estrogen.
Any other scenario primo is out equipoise gives much better aesthetics and anabolism overall.

Yeah I’ve been trying to make EQ work as an AI anabolic for awhile and I’m about to throw in the towel. Between different rates of ester accrual and dialing in an already problematic endeavor, I’m getting pretty tired of wasting syringe space that could have been put towards something a whole lot better than fucking EQ.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

Yeah I’ve been trying to make EQ work as an AI anabolic for awhile and I’m about to throw in the towel. Between different rates of ester accrual and dialing in an already problematic endeavor, I’m getting pretty tired of wasting syringe space that could have been put towards something a whole lot better than fucking EQ.

250mg pharma test = 1/4th of pharma grade letro
Every time every ratio works for me I was spinning my wheels for years. If you have problems with estro you can try.
Long time users of Aromatizing androgens responds good to letrozole.

 

[buzzingonaas]

All steroids are compareable regarding the potency to elevate the protein synthesis.

I follow the victor black approach as well, but I’m curious where he got this from? Afaik there are no clinical trials, it would appear that he just guessed? Or ran his own trials that couldn’t have been controlled properly. This is the one part of his teaching that really doesn’t make sense as I’ve never seen this demonstrated in an actual clinical trial.
Him and John Jewett claim they all build muscle at “relatively the same rate on a mf per mg basis” but what are these rates?

 

[nightprowler7]

Primo is dumb and I’m tired of pretending that it’s not.

I blame Arnold mostly

I still run it though

 

[AlexDavis43]

Basically, I agree with Viktor Black's approach, even though I think he's a huge asshole.

Well shit that was well-said. He says test, GH, and insulin is the model he invented 30 years ago.

 

[Klimmzugernie]

Don’t act like drostalone is a saint steroid it irritates prostate too much.
It also hits lipids especially HDL can cause some mineral imbalance especially at the dosages you’re stating.
Can give low e2 sides and can make estro management a pain in the ass.
With high e2 (without symptoms due to mast) and high DHT guess what hit the prostate gonna take.
I won’t even mention the balding issue as this is not a valid side effect for me.

I know for a fact that I would grow better on 200 testosterone 400 nandrolone rather than 200 test 1000 mast (I wouldn’t be able to piss let alone make gains).
And in fact with 200 test 400 nand I would have much less strain on my body due to total anabolic load and androgenic load.

HDL is absolutely irrelevant and is not linked to cardiovascular events based on current medical evidence.
Adequate LDL and triglycerides are crucial.

Prostate problems are caused by estradiol and prolactin. Not just through DHT.
When will it finally be understood that Drostanolone and Primobolan are less androgenic than Proviron and 5a reduced testosterone?
Including alopecia...
And by the way, you will go bald in any case if you are receptive to it.

Furthermore, I have very serious doubts that anyone gains more muscle on Nandrolone. I suspect that users are extremely deceived by their fat and water gains.

Personally, nandrolone is far too toxic to cells. It has been found to cause lasting damage to cell membranes. Attacks the penile tissue and causes brain damage.
On top of that, sooner or later I'll get bad skin and ED.

In my opinion, Test and Nandrolone Cycles are just clumsy. After all, it's not just about muscle gains but about the whole body and its functions.
But everyone is different. And if you say that nandrolone is better for you, then it is.

I also think 200 test for 1000 Drosta is an extremely unfavorable ratio. 700 Test and 1000 Drosta works great for me. (for me - it is not an advice)
My blood count is good, my E2 is slightly increased, I don't have any joint problems and my erection, libido and mood are on top.

And it’s fucking obvious you don’t grow the same on masteron primo vs test nand
If that was the case the bread n butter growing stack would be mast primo test and not test dbol deca.
Yeah we maybe didn’t have the science back then but it’s fucking obvious to the naked eye that you don’t grow the same on DHT’s vs the heavy hitters , and I’m not talking about water retention (but even water retention it’s secondary “extra” that would push the growth a little tad further).

As already said, that is not the case.
Unfortunately, your statements are very dusty and not up to date. Just Bro Science.

The stacks you mentioned are predestined to have to deal with aromatase inhibitors and caber. Is that so great?

Severe water retention, as is the case for most people with this cycle design, is very unfavorable for blood pressure and ultimately for the kidneys.

The good old bodybuilders from days gone by... most of them have kidney problems. Is it worth it? Nope.

I follow the victor black approach as well, but I’m curious where he got this from? Afaik there are no clinical trials, it would appear that he just guessed? Or ran his own trials that couldn’t have been controlled properly. This is the one part of his teaching that really doesn’t make sense as I’ve never seen this demonstrated in an actual clinical trial.
Him and John Jewett claim they all build muscle at “relatively the same rate on a mf per mg basis” but what are these rates?

There was actually a paper about it. But the fact that I'm just mentioning this and currently don't have a source for it is hot air... I'm trying to find it.

But at the end of the day, the testosterone derivatives all have the same chemical structure. A few modifications change certain properties but not the stimulation of the androgen receptor.
In addition, it is known that the common DHT derivatives are insensitive to the 3a HSD and are therefore equally potent for hypertrophy.

Talk is cheap... I'll see what I can find.

 

[ChevChelios]

It lowers my E2 dramatically, so I can easily take 500-700 of T/Deca and add 300-500 Primo and not need any AI. That's why I love it. Without Primo and an added AI, I still get more "puffy". So for me, Primo works as a better AI.

Yeah so we were agreeing bro ahah I’m confused now but that’s what I thought I probably wrote my post in an unclear fashion or sumn, as that’s what I meant by it having a pseudo-AI effect