Primobolan - underrated for muscle gain?

[readalot]

what are the benefits to no BB?

Less additional excipient you are injecting into your body. For most probably not a huge deal but for some they seem to notice a difference in inflammation / subjective feel /unsure if there is cRP benefit. It ultimately becomes benzoic acid in the body and then metabolized and eliminated.

Benzyl benzoate - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

As an excipient in some testosterone-replacement injectable medications, benzyl benzoate has been reported as a cause of anaphylaxis in a case in Australia.[14] Bayer includes this report in information for health professionals and recommends that physicians "should be aware of the potential for serious allergic reactions" to preparations of this type.[9] In Australia, reports to ADRAC, which evaluates reports of adverse drug reactions for the Therapeutic Goods Administration, show several reports of allergic issues since the anaphylaxis case from 2011.

Removing BB from the oil does increase viscosity and slower draw and injection times. BA does influence pharmacokinetics and perhaps BB does as well to some extent. If you sit there and look at Pharma Test Cyp it is 20% BB!

I've recently switched to Test Enanthate with 2% BA (not BB) from Empower. That's 20 mg BA per ml without the 200 mg BB per ml. The low excipient champ seems to be Hikma; they make Delatestryl generic Test E with 5 mg of chlorobutanol per ml of solution.

Xyosted has no additives but ridiculously expensive and autoinjector.

 

[nightprowler7]

Less additional excipient you are injecting into your body. For most probably not a huge deal but for some they seem to notice a difference in inflammation / subjective feel /unsure if there is cRP benefit. It ultimately becomes benzoic acid in the body and then metabolized and eliminated.

Benzyl benzoate - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Removing BB from the oil does increase viscosity and slower draw and injection times. BA does influence pharmacokinetics and perhaps BB does as well to some extent. If you sit there and look at Pharma Test Cyp it is 20% BB!

I've recently switched to Test Enanthate with 2% BA (not BB) from Empower. That's 20 mg BA per ml without the 200 mg BB per ml. The low excipient champ seems to be Hikma; they make Delatestryl generic Test E with 5 mg of chlorobutanol per ml of solution.

Xyosted has no additives but ridiculously expensive and autoinjector.

Is there any evidence that high amount of bb is dangerous? Say 25-30% or more. I'm seeing higher bb be more common with vendors instead of using supersolvents. I have used 25% bb in mast e 400 and I didn't notice anything health wise.

I plan to use 28% bb to make tc 400 that a vendor on SST sold me the recipe to (they also carry it in they're shop)

 

[HeatherSwanson]

I got more compliments in the gym on my cycle of 240mg/week test cyp and 250mg/week of primo than I did on my comparable doses/cycles of test and NPP. I'm on TRT and like to use minimum dosages rather than the tiktok idiots that blast 500+ without trying lower doses.

It leaned me out, crashed my estrogen, extremely vascular, and its not that expensive. How poor are you if you cant afford 60 euro/vial? You're in the wrong game if that is expensive since blood work is twice that ($125) and should be done before, during, and after cycles.

Same for me. I'm huge proponent of primo at 1:1 with test. Its my favorite.

 

[readalot]

Is there any evidence that high amount of bb is dangerous? Say 25-30% or more. I'm seeing higher bb be more common with vendors instead of using supersolvents. I have used 25% bb in mast e 400 and I didn't notice anything health wise.

I plan to use 28% bb to make tc 400 that a vendor on SST sold me the recipe to (they also carry it in they're shop)

I don't think so. People have been injecting it for years in the Pharma space. And even more in the ugl realm. Very low acute toxicity.

I would cast the potential concern level of any chemical you are injecting in terms of mg or mg/kg bodyweight and not in terms of the percentage of chemical in a certain product. You need to multiply the percentage by amount of product per day/week. Someone injecting 2 g/week very different than someone doing 100 mg/week in terms of exposure.

 

[readalot]

Less additional excipient you are injecting into your body. For most probably not a huge deal but for some they seem to notice a difference in inflammation / subjective feel /unsure if there is cRP benefit. It ultimately becomes benzoic acid in the body and then metabolized and eliminated.

Benzyl benzoate - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Removing BB from the oil does increase viscosity and slower draw and injection times. BA does influence pharmacokinetics and perhaps BB does as well to some extent. If you sit there and look at Pharma Test Cyp it is 20% BB!

I've recently switched to Test Enanthate with 2% BA (not BB) from Empower. That's 20 mg BA per ml without the 200 mg BB per ml. The low excipient champ seems to be Hikma; they make Delatestryl generic Test E with 5 mg of chlorobutanol per ml of solution.

Xyosted has no additives but ridiculously expensive and autoinjector.

Guess putting this here is as good as anywhere. Had my Provider write a script for Hikma Test Enanthate (only Big Pharma Rx Test E available in US unless you go the crazy expensive Xyosted route). The other option is compounding pharmacy.

I used GoodRx at the Pharmacy and picked up two 5 ml vials (10 ml @ 200 mg/ml) for 65 USD. This is the lowest excipient Test ester product in a multi dose vial (just 5 mg chlorobutanol per ml) on US market.

For comparison, Empower Pharmacy offers Test E @ 200 mg/ml with just 2% BA (20 mg/ml BA, no BB). With shipping that runs 140 USD.

Haven't tried the chlorobutanol previously. The Empower BA only formula is fine; slower to draw and inject than the TC products with 20% BB, but I like a having reasonably affordable BB free option to evaluate.

Actavis/Hikma/Padagis Test C (cottonseed oil with 2% BA / 20% BB) is 40 USD for 10 ml MDV (200 mg/ml) with goodrx at the Pharmacy. So you got to pay a little extra for less excipient.

 

[gx52a]

Guess putting this here is as good as anywhere. Had my Provider write a script for Hikma Test Enanthate (only Big Pharma Rx Test E available in US unless you go the crazy expensive Xyosted route). The other option is compounding pharmacy.

I used GoodRx at the Pharmacy and picked up two 5 ml vials (10 ml @ 200 mg/ml) for 65 USD. This is the lowest excipient Test ester product in a multi dose vial (just 5 mg chlorobutanol per ml) on US market.

For comparison, Empower Pharmacy offers Test E @ 200 mg/ml with just 2% BA (20 mg/ml BA, no BB). With shipping that runs 140 USD.

Haven't tried the chlorobutanol previously. The Empower BA only formula is fine; slower to draw and inject than the TC products with 20% BB, but I like a having reasonably affordable BB free option to evaluate.

Actavis/Hikma/Padagis Test C (cottonseed oil with 2% BA / 20% BB) is 40 USD for 10 ml MDV (200 mg/ml) with goodrx at the Pharmacy. So you got to pay a little extra for less excipient.

Jesus Christ dude. At this point and this level of effort, just homebrew it, then you can use whatever excipients you like.

A kilo of Test E raws would cost like $500 and probably last the rest of your life, so you can run whatever metals contamination tests you want on that kilo and have total confidence that your supply is good.

 

[Jaxino]

Guess putting this here is as good as anywhere. Had my Provider write a script for Hikma Test Enanthate (only Big Pharma Rx Test E available in US unless you go the crazy expensive Xyosted route). The other option is compounding pharmacy.

I used GoodRx at the Pharmacy and picked up two 5 ml vials (10 ml @ 200 mg/ml) for 65 USD. This is the lowest excipient Test ester product in a multi dose vial (just 5 mg chlorobutanol per ml) on US market.

For comparison, Empower Pharmacy offers Test E @ 200 mg/ml with just 2% BA (20 mg/ml BA, no BB). With shipping that runs 140 USD.

Haven't tried the chlorobutanol previously. The Empower BA only formula is fine; slower to draw and inject than the TC products with 20% BB, but I like a having reasonably affordable BB free option to evaluate.

Actavis/Hikma/Padagis Test C (cottonseed oil with 2% BA / 20% BB) is 40 USD for 10 ml MDV (200 mg/ml) with goodrx at the Pharmacy. So you got to pay a little extra for less excipient.

All that research and you don't even pay attention to the oil used... Which it makes a.big difference in the end product.... Not just BA and BB.
Once Coach Steve posted a research about making injectables and it ended up saying that BB is a PRO STEROID and it helps steroid absorption in the muscle.... I don't have the link sorry.

 

[Jaxino]

Less additional excipient you are injecting into your body. For most probably not a huge deal but for some they seem to notice a difference in inflammation / subjective feel /unsure if there is cRP benefit. It ultimately becomes benzoic acid in the body and then metabolized and eliminated.

Benzyl benzoate - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Removing BB from the oil does increase viscosity and slower draw and injection times. BA does influence pharmacokinetics and perhaps BB does as well to some extent. If you sit there and look at Pharma Test Cyp it is 20% BB!

I've recently switched to Test Enanthate with 2% BA (not BB) from Empower. That's 20 mg BA per ml without the 200 mg BB per ml. The low excipient champ seems to be Hikma; they make Delatestryl generic Test E with 5 mg of chlorobutanol per ml of solution.

Xyosted has no additives but ridiculously expensive and autoinjector.

Are you even homebrewing? This is pure bullshit... The more BB the less viscosity.
As I told you before go check the oil...
It's not rocket science.

 

[gx52a]

Once Coach Steve posted a research about making injectables and it ended up saying that BB is a PRO STEROID and it helps steroid absorption in the muscle....

Are you talking about that dipshit on YouTube?

 

[readalot]

Removing BB from the oil does increase viscosity

This is pure bullshit... The more BB the less viscosity

You just repeated what I stated.

https://ietresearch.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1049/smt2.12053

The viscosity reduction of vegetable oil based liquids has been achieved by processing of the natural esters with different levels of concentration of aromatic solvent of benzyl benzoate.

 

[readalot]

All that research and you don't even pay attention to the oil used.

I do keep track of the oil but did not list above....

Hikma TE....Sesame Oil
Empower TE...GSO
Pharma TC ...Cottonseed

 

[readalot]

BB is a PRO STEROID and it helps steroid absorption in the muscle

Pro steroid? No.

I have mentioned previously that BA and probably BB do alter the pharmacokinetics of the ester depot absorption.

They offer absolutely no synergistic effect with the Test ester though unless your hypothesis is that BB changes liver clearance of the testosterone which could theoretically alter the serum concentration and AUC for a given amount (mass) of Testosterone injected.

 

[gx52a]

Pro steroid? No.

I have mentioned previously that BA and probably BB do alter the pharmacokinetics of the ester depot absorption.

They offer absolutely no synergistic effect with the Test ester though unless your hypothesis is that BB changes liver clearance of the testosterone which could theoretically alter the serum concentration and AUC for a given amount (mass) of Testosterone injected.

Even then it would not have an appreciable effect. BA and BB are both highly water soluble and therefore have excellent mobility out of the depot. They are fully metabolized within minutes or hours.

The test ester is long lived because it has essentially zero water solubility and a very high affinity for the oil depot. Once it does cross the barrier, though, it's almost immediately cleaved by various tissue esterases. This results in a nice slow exponentially decaying release profile, even though the excipients are gone.

It's best to picture the depot as an oil pocket with precipitated ester crystals in it, which shrink and eventually disappear as the concentration drops. This is probably closest to reality.

 

[readalot]

Jesus Christ dude

I have to stay legal. Not that much effort. And happy with the quality of the Pharma AAS. Reminds me to see if I can get a C of A for the Test E. Hikma was a pain in the ass about getting the C of A for the Test C.

 

[gx52a]

I have to stay legal. Not that much effort. And happy with the quality of the Pharma AAS. Reminds me to see if I can get a C of A for the Test E. Hikma was a pain in the ass about getting the C of A for the Test C.

If you have a script, can't you possess Testosterone raws legally?

I'm serious.

 

[readalot]

If you have a script, can't you possess Testosterone raws legally?

I'm serious.

That is a great question. I know of no legal source for any raw testosterone ester in the US. Hence, with a prescription for say 50 g of testosterone enanthate (if a Doc was insane enough to write a Rx for that) where would you procur it? Even the most liberal compounders would tell you to get lost ASAP.

I am not offering legal advice; however I would not be comfortable that a (however implausible) Doctor's script would save you if caught with distribution size amounts of unfinished raw powder.

That seems to be a surefire way for a compounder to implode their business (sell raws).

 

[readalot]

Even then it would not have an appreciable effect. BA and BB are both highly water soluble and therefore have excellent mobility out of the depot. They are fully metabolized within minutes or hours.

The test ester is long lived because it has essentially zero water solubility and a very high affinity for the oil depot. Once it does cross the barrier, though, it's almost immediately cleaved by various tissue esterases. This results in a nice slow exponentially decaying release profile, even though the excipients are gone.

It's best to picture the depot as an oil pocket with precipitated ester crystals in it, which shrink and eventually disappear as the concentration drops. This is probably closest to reality.

Great reference on the role of BA in the depot and contribution to absorption rate constant...

https://dspace.library.uu.nl/bitstream/handle/1874/348465/Kalicharan.pdf

p. 123 to your points and Chapter 3 (Fig. 3.1 and text) for those interested. Much better time investment than Youtube IMO.

Blow by blow of the papers that came from the thesis above:

The contribution of the in-vivo fate of an oil depot to drug absorption

ABSTRACT Sustained release of lipophilic compounds can be achieved with oil depots. These parenteral formulations are generally injected into the vastus lateralis and deltoid muscle. It is known that the absorption rate differs between these two muscles. The reason for this is not fully...

www.excelmale.com

 

[gx52a]

That is a great question. I know of no legal source for any raw testosterone ester in the US. Hence, with a prescription for say 50 g of testosterone enanthate (if a Doc was insane enough to write a Rx for that) where would you procur it? Even the most liberal compounders would tell you to get lost ASAP.

I am not offering legal advice; however I would not be comfortable that a (however implausible) Doctor's script would save you if caught with distribution size amounts of unfinished raw powder.

That seems to be a surefire way for a compounder to implode their business (sell raws).

You would of course buy the raws from an illegal source, but under most laws, buying is not illegal, possession without a prescription is.

You are correct about "intent to distribute", but this is entirely about intent and not amount. You can be charged with intent even if you are only in possession of your legal RX ampoules, if there is reason to believe you plan to sell them.

Simply being caught with a kilo of TE raws is no guarantee of a charge or conviction on that basis, particularly when you've got a prescription and obvious personal use intentions.

Anyway I'm not a lawyer but I'm not sure it's actually illegal.

 

[readalot]

You would of course buy the raws from an illegal source, but under most laws, buying is not illegal, possession without a prescription is.

You are correct about "intent to distribute", but this is entirely about intent and not amount. You can be charged with intent even if you are only in possession of your legal RX ampoules, if there is reason to believe you plan to sell them.

Simply being caught with a kilo of TE raws is no guarantee of a charge or conviction on that basis, particularly when you've got a prescription and obvious personal use intentions.

Anyway I'm not a lawyer but I'm not sure it's actually illegal.

All good theoretical discussion points. However in practice I really don't want to find out. Could be years and many $$$ to be found innocent if you encounter the wrong DA.

I like having the Rx label on any AAS product I use. The risk / reward just makes no sense for my personal situation. Which kinda sucks that I can legally try stanozolol but not methenolone to bring us back to thread title.

 

[gx52a]

Could be years and many $$$ to be found innocent if you encounter the wrong DA.

I can't argue with that. It depends a lot on the state you live in, to be honest. Some states basically don't really even prosecute drug crimes anymore, it just goes straight to drug court.