Steroid Profile Primobolan

[GreenAmine]

Sure, although there’s a high chance these may be the wrong links as I just noted down that they mentioned estrogen or a form of estrogen in them and I’m not kidding when I’ve probably tried to read upwards of 500 of these kind of older studies on different AAS at this point and my note taking skills have always been shit lol

https://repository.kulib.kyoto-u.ac.jp/dspace/bitstream/2433/121459/1/18_1111.pdf (I believe I had trouble with this study understanding the figures more than anything else)

[Oxidation of the anabolic substance 1-methyl-androst-1-en-17-beta-o1-3-on by means of hydrogen transfer to estrone. In vitro studies with rat organ slices] - PubMed or the alternative link: OXYDATION DES ANABOLIKUMS 1-METHYL-ANDROST-1-EN-17β-OL-3-ON MIT WASSERSTOFFTRANSFER AUF ÖSTRON

Thanks man! I will do my best with these.

 

[lilhawk]

hows the water retention on primo? People say theres no bloat associated with primo, but the same people also claim that tren and superdrol are "dry" compounds even tho both of those cause moonface.

So I have to collect anecdotal evidence on primo, since people clearly dont know what theyre experiencing with certain compounds

Zero water retention with primo.

 

[Chael199]

It's not that you're dumb, man, this is simply not your area of expertise. Primo would be a great choice for this purpose, but 165 is really light, unless your height is below average. If you are average height or above, I would suggest eating more and focusing on training before trying to monkey with adding to trt.

Yea I have never been a book smart person at all. But as far as height Im 5'9 155 now at about 15 percent. I have always been small. High School Senior was only 93 pounds. Always been lean and small boned. Never done a real cycle, I tried a few times over the last 20 years but nothing I stuck with more than 5 to 6 weeks. Did a Var and Win oral once and left me shut down for over 2 months. A couple tries on 250mg a week test but never stayed with my workout or did any nutrition. But last time I tried at 200mg test I got gyno and took Nolvadex for awhile to shrink it where its not noticeable or any kind of discomfort or anything but I know its there because it will never go away. But have been lifting for about 2 years now solid and eating pretty regular healthy muscle sizing diet. I have cheated for a week here and there a few times but when you dont eat right it shows fast. I have a aesthetic look at 155 but not to the extreme I want. I could imagine what 10 pounds of muscle would do on my frame. I have tried to eat more calories several times but just cant sustain that appetite for more than a couple weeks at most. Unless I eat crap food. But yea I would really like to be 170 at 12 percent or below but 165 is my first goal.

 

[GreenAmine]

Yea I have never been a book smart person at all. But as far as height Im 5'9 155 now at about 15 percent. I have always been small. High School Senior was only 93 pounds. Always been lean and small boned. Never done a real cycle, I tried a few times over the last 20 years but nothing I stuck with more than 5 to 6 weeks. Did a Var and Win oral once and left me shut down for over 2 months. A couple tries on 250mg a week test but never stayed with my workout or did any nutrition. But last time I tried at 200mg test I got gyno and took Nolvadex for awhile to shrink it where its not noticeable or any kind of discomfort or anything but I know its there because it will never go away. But have been lifting for about 2 years now solid and eating pretty regular healthy muscle sizing diet. I have cheated for a week here and there a few times but when you dont eat right it shows fast. I have a aesthetic look at 155 but not to the extreme I want. I could imagine what 10 pounds of muscle would do on my frame. I have tried to eat more calories several times but just cant sustain that appetite for more than a couple weeks at most. Unless I eat crap food. But yea I would really like to be 170 at 12 percent or below but 165 is my first goal.

If you've been lifting for 2 years consistently and have not gained much muscle, then something is wrong. If you're simply not able to eat enough because of lack of appetite, have you tried an appetite stimulant like MK-677? A lot of people don't like that compound, but it will increase your appetite IMMENSELY and it will start working quickly.

You will need to have some self-control while on it because the food cravings are very strong. Start low, maybe 5 mg every other day and see where that gets you. Some users experience water retention, but that will subside after discontinuation.

Also, is 100 mg of test enough for you? Do you feel well on it? What are your test levels on that dose? I know gyno is an issue, but that can be controlled if you don't want to get the surgery for it.

 

[lilhawk]

Primo lowered my E2 to almost the bottom of normal range at a dose of 200mg. I was taking 400mg of test at the time and my test was off the reference range high. It also crushed my SHBG to almost nothing, low end of range was 13, and mine was 3.

 

[lilhawk]

I agree 100% I’m honestly at 300mg a week right now and I haven’t even lifted in a couple days and I’ve lost no muscle and still pretty wide. Even when not getting in all my meals I’ve lost nothing. Primo is the best overall, no need to overdue things. I’ll be running primo forever honestly

Primo is great for preserving muscle, but no matter what you do you're not going to lose any muscle at all if you haven't lifted for a few days.

 

[bodybuilder8806]

Hey bro, please don't feel that I am unfairly singling you out. I only am doing so because I know you are an intelligent guy. But do you have any bloodwork or references for any of this? I have been collecting bloodwork on primo and haven't yet seen this to be supported by anything but an avalanche of anecdotes.

Just to add in for another case, I'm meticulous with regular blood work and when adding new compounds. I have had HPLC testing done on primo to know what I'm using. Primo definitely lowers E2 in a dose dependent manner for myself.

 

[Type-IIx]

Primo is great for preserving muscle, but no matter what you do you're not going to lose any muscle at all if you haven't lifted for a few days.

Just to add in for another case, I'm meticulous with regular blood work and when adding new compounds. I have had HPLC testing done on primo to know what I'm using. Primo definitely lowers E2 in a dose dependent manner for myself.

I believe you! It's just that I only have a couple real examples of the highest quality evidence: images of bloodwork (lab results) on test+primo or primo only cycles. And these tell a different story, but the data is sparse and I hope I can get some data to show lowering of E2. I'm hoping @Ss99 emails me the data he said that he could. And @lilhawk I consider your contributions on the Primo: science/broscience thread as valid data of E2 lowering, it's just "B-level" data whereas images of bloodwork (lab results) would constitute "A-level" data.

 

[bodybuilder8806]

I believe you! It's just that I only have a couple real examples of the highest quality evidence: images of bloodwork (lab results) on test+primo or primo only cycles. And these tell a different story, but the data is sparse and I hope I can get some data to show lowering of E2. I'm hoping @Ss99 emails me the data he said that he could. And @lilhawk I consider your contributions on the Primo: science/broscience thread as valid data of E2 lowering, it's just "B-level" data whereas images of bloodwork (lab results) would constitute "A-level" data.

For sure I wasn't saying you didn't believe it, I just wanted to add to the anecdotal evidence pool. Everyone can be a little different with how they metabolize certain compounds. If everyone was the exact same this whole thing would be easy lol. The good thing is everyone contributing their experiences gives people a starting point in order to measure expectations as they do their own experimenting.

 

[Type-IIx]

For sure I wasn't saying you didn't believe it, I just wanted to add to the anecdotal evidence pool. Everyone can be a little different with how they metabolize certain compounds. If everyone was the exact same this whole thing would be easy lol. The good thing is everyone contributing their experiences gives people a starting point in order to measure expectations as they do their own experimenting.

Check out this thread if you don't mind quickly posting your Primo experience brother

 

[Chael199]

If you've been lifting for 2 years consistently and have not gained much muscle, then something is wrong. If you're simply not able to eat enough because of lack of appetite, have you tried an appetite stimulant like MK-677? A lot of people don't like that compound, but it will increase your appetite IMMENSELY and it will start working quickly.

You will need to have some self-control while on it because the food cravings are very strong. Start low, maybe 5 mg every other day and see where that gets you. Some users experience water retention, but that will subside after discontinuation.

Also, is 100 mg of test enough for you? Do you feel well on it? What are your test levels on that dose? I know gyno is an issue, but that can be controlled if you don't want to get the surgery for it.

I have never tried MK 677. Honest I have never even seen it from any of the sources I have used . I read about it but never took much thought in it. I know due to my age and on TRT Im at my genetic limit on muscle size so I know I will need some extra to push to my goal. The heaviest I ever weighed was 168 and was around 20 - 25 percent BF. Over the last couple years I gained almost 12 pounds lean mass. As far as feeling good on 100mg, I do pretty good. But not like the 200 as I feel like a millionaire Greek god lol. I have tried Adex to control the gyno but once the gyno flares it stays until I drop off everything and take Nolva for 6 weeks after. I hate gyno. I would like to get surgery for it, but don't think insurance would pay for it as its expensive cosmetic procedure from what I have read. I never seen my bloodwork as my Dr just takes care of it. I could request a copy of it I would think. I just got some done a couple weeks ago but it was not with TRT dosed. It was after I added some extra test and then quit for 8 weeks to get rid of the gyno. My Dr ordered more labs before he would put me back on as I told him I havnt taken any TRT is 2 months. I dont tell my DR about adding anything or nothing. He is a strict no messing around very to the book Dr. So I know if I said anything about what I have done he could just not see me anymore. Finding a Dr here for TRT that takes insurance is only a few and I know they would share medical records if I changed. So yea long story of wanting to add something else but not let my Dr know.

 

[Popeeflex]

220 pounds / 5’10 / 12-14% bf
Currently TRT 200mg

Starting small blast
400-500mg sust250 (organon)
200mg primo ( Bayer )
“Maybe” Anadrol 4 weeks at end of cycle for strength block.

12-16 weeks depending on how I respond
then back down to cruise.

Arimidex on hand don’t think I’ll need.
I’ll post my results and blood work.

Hear great things about primo, I’m going to try to keep a 2:1 ratio for first 4-8 weeks then adjust.

 

[GreenAmine]

220 pounds / 5’10 / 12-14% bf
Currently TRT 200mg

Starting small blast
400-500mg sust250 (organon)
200mg primo ( Bayer )
“Maybe” Anadrol 4 weeks at end of cycle for strength block.

12-16 weeks depending on how I respond
then back down to cruise.

Arimidex on hand don’t think I’ll need.
I’ll post my results and blood work.

Hear great things about primo, I’m going to try to keep a 2:1 ratio for first 4-8 weeks then adjust.

A 2:1 (or higher) ratio is what I have always used in the past. If the ratio was anything less, I began experiencing low E effects. That being said, I recently adjusted my current blast (replaced tren with primo, increased T, added anadrol back in), and decided to test the waters again.

I started with 700 T and 350 primo for a week, and slowly began increasing primo and decreasing T. I'm now at 560 T and 420 primo, and have been for 2 weeks, and I'm experiencing ZERO low E effects. I don't know what changed, but so far, I can handle a lower ratio of T : primo than before. I'm actually really enjoying this combo. I will stay at this dose for this week, and then I might see if I can increase the primo some more.

I don't think it's the anadrol (50 mg/day) that's making the difference, because I've ran it before at the same dose with primo and T.

I'm not well-versed in epigenetics, so I'm hesitant to make an assertion to that regard, but something has definitely changed.

 

[Type-IIx]

A 2:1 (or higher) ratio is what I have always used in the past. If the ratio was anything less, I began experiencing low E effects. That being said, I recently adjusted my current blast (replaced tren with primo, increased T, added anadrol back in), and decided to test the waters again.

I started with 700 T and 350 primo for a week, and slowly began increasing primo and decreasing T. I'm now at 560 T and 420 primo, and have been for 2 weeks, and I'm experiencing ZERO low E effects. I don't know what changed, but so far, I can handle a lower ratio of T : primo than before. I'm actually really enjoying this combo. I will stay at this dose for this week, and then I might see if I can increase the primo some more.

I don't think it's the anadrol (50 mg/day) that's making the difference, because I've ran it before at the same dose with primo and T.

I'm not well-versed in epigenetics, so I'm hesitant to make an assertion to that regard, but something has definitely changed.

I've heard similar results with guys and before blasting needing an AI on TRT, then after returning to cruise doses, no longer needing any AI. There may be epigentic modifications or some SHBG (grasping here) adaptations?

Let us know how the translation of those papers goes!

 

[GreenAmine]

I've heard similar results with guys and before blasting needing an AI on TRT, then after returning to cruise doses, no longer needing any AI. There may be epigentic modifications or some SHBG (grasping here) adaptations?

Let us know how the translation of those papers goes!

To further muddy the waters, I just lost about 30 lbs on a cut, so I have even less fat - and therefore, supposedly, less aromatase - than before, so I would think that my E would drop more easily.

The German paper was handed to a coworker today, and I'm waiting for my Japanese coworker to return from a long Thanksgiving vacation. She should be back this week.

 

[Popeeflex]

A 2:1 (or higher) ratio is what I have always used in the past. If the ratio was anything less, I began experiencing low E effects. That being said, I recently adjusted my current blast (replaced tren with primo, increased T, added anadrol back in), and decided to test the waters again.

I started with 700 T and 350 primo for a week, and slowly began increasing primo and decreasing T. I'm now at 560 T and 420 primo, and have been for 2 weeks, and I'm experiencing ZERO low E effects. I don't know what changed, but so far, I can handle a lower ratio of T : primo than before. I'm actually really enjoying this combo. I will stay at this dose for this week, and then I might see if I can increase the primo some more.

I don't think it's the anadrol (50 mg/day) that's making the difference, because I've ran it before at the same dose with primo and T.

I'm not well-versed in epigenetics, so I'm hesitant to make an assertion to that regard, but something has definitely changed.

Were you running anadrol your entire cycle? How was your stomach and appetite while on. Also any significant hair loss while pushing higher doses of primo? I have gilbertsons disease so I don’t want to push an oral for extended period of time, although I would love the strength gains.

 

[bodybuilder8806]

A 2:1 (or higher) ratio is what I have always used in the past. If the ratio was anything less, I began experiencing low E effects. That being said, I recently adjusted my current blast (replaced tren with primo, increased T, added anadrol back in), and decided to test the waters again.

I started with 700 T and 350 primo for a week, and slowly began increasing primo and decreasing T. I'm now at 560 T and 420 primo, and have been for 2 weeks, and I'm experiencing ZERO low E effects. I don't know what changed, but so far, I can handle a lower ratio of T : primo than before. I'm actually really enjoying this combo. I will stay at this dose for this week, and then I might see if I can increase the primo some more.

I don't think it's the anadrol (50 mg/day) that's making the difference, because I've ran it before at the same dose with primo and T.

I'm not well-versed in epigenetics, so I'm hesitant to make an assertion to that regard, but something has definitely changed.

Out of curiosity in the past when you had Low E symptoms what doses were you running of Primo vs Test?

I would guess at higher dosages of Test you have excess E2 that can be further negated by Higher dosages of Primo as well......... where at Low doses that are closer to physiological levels ~200mg and below, perhaps that ratio threshold is much lower when adding in Primo.

 

[GreenAmine]

Were you running anadrol your entire cycle? How was your stomach and appetite while on. Also any significant hair loss while pushing higher doses of primo? I have gilbertsons disease so I don’t want to push an oral for extended period of time, although I would love the strength gains.

My body responds well to anadrol (mostly), so I usually run it for 6 weeks at a time. I have bloodwork showing minimal effect on liver health markers, so I feel okay with doing this. Appetite can take a bit of a hit, and if it gets too bad (especially when combined with tren), I'll add some MK-677 at 10-20 mg EOD. If you have Gilbertson's disease, I would agree with you: don't run an oral for too long, or you might turn yellow. The strength gains from anadrol, for me, are phenomenal, even after 1 week.

I have only noticed hair loss (minimal) with trestolone the first time I ran it, and after I stopped, it grew back. Nothing else has caused that issue for me.

 

[VenomYo]

My body responds well to anadrol (mostly), so I usually run it for 6 weeks at a time. I have bloodwork showing minimal effect on liver health markers, so I feel okay with doing this. Appetite can take a bit of a hit, and if it gets too bad (especially when combined with tren), I'll add some MK-677 at 10-20 mg EOD. If you have Gilbertson's disease, I would agree with you: don't run an oral for too long, or you might turn yellow. The strength gains from anadrol, for me, are phenomenal, even after 1 week.

I have only noticed hair loss (minimal) with trestolone the first time I ran it, and after I stopped, it grew back. Nothing else has caused that issue for me.

proviron is a bish when it comes to shedding

 

[GreenAmine]

Out of curiosity in the past when you had Low E symptoms what doses were you running of Primo vs Test?

I would guess at higher dosages of Test you have excess E2 that can be further negated by Higher dosages of Primo as well......... where at Low doses that are closer to physiological levels ~200mg and below, perhaps that ratio threshold is much lower when adding in Primo.

Typically 350:175 T : primo, along with other gear, such as tren and/or orals, and rhGH. It was a slow progression, not like the crash from taking too much AI. It was also much easier to reverse; I would add some trestolone at 5-10 mg/day for a few days, but dbol should work too (dbol does not agree with me). If you have a significant other, and she's on birth control, that can be used as well for a quick turnaround. I have never tried that, and I haven't read much about it, so definitely do some research before trying it.

Yes, that assertion makes sense. The conversion of test to E is definitely not linear as dose increases, but having a high E value from a high(er) test dose should offer a nice "cushion" and allow a higher ratio of primo : T.