Science and faith.

[Neodavid]

Where did the single cell come from? The incredibly complex system of organelles, ie., mitochondria, ribosomes, endoplasmic reticulum, golgi complex, lysosomes, peroxisomes... where did the secretory granules come from?

None of this could survive without the entire system already in place. The complexity of a single cell is far beyond the possibility of random happenstance.

The cell supports the nucleolus, wherein lies the nucleous, and the incredibly complex double helix of the DNA.

All that just happened by accident, and then it got more complex and formed 'us', with self awareness?

right....

I find it far easier to believe that all life on this planet originated from a single cell. Than it is to believe in some religion. Why do people think it is so hard to believe in evolution? We are selves come from 2 haploid cells the form in to a single cell. When sperm fertilizes an egg. From that one cell, DNA produces the person staring at this post. So its not hard for me to believe that life came about in that way. As for the man in the moon I am skeptical? No one commented on the duck-billed platypus? Or is it just Gods idea of a joke? You can lead a horse to water, but the still want to believe in words in a book written thousands of years ago by men.

The duck-billed platypus (Ornithorhynchus Anatinus) lives in rivers on the eastern side of Australia.
The duck-billed platypus lays eggs and suckles its young.
The duck-billed platypus lives in burrows and finds food in the rivers using electrical impulses.
The male duck-billed platypus has a poisonous spur on his hind legs.
The duck-billed platypus grows to about 50cm and can live for up to 12 years in captivity.
This site has photographs, drawings, poems, stories, facts, references, links to other sites, and a variety of other information about the duck-billed platypus

http://www.platypus.org.uk/

I would put up a link for sexual reproduction, but I would think that would be common knowledge .. . . .

 

[goldstone_77]

Bob, I'm sorry your so basic.... I thought that summed it up perfect? You must not be reading all my post... Read the last few. What do you think about my single cell theory, and the platypus? The single cell, tie's in my theory on the bacteria, you probably didn't catch that.... Shocker there?

Again, you fail to answer my very basic question.

 

[goldstone_77]

Not by accident, DNA is running the show here buddy! Mitochondria have there own DNA for your information!!!! Not so smart guy regurgitating already factual information not denying my argument. And those organelles can survive without a cell, but they have formed a symbiotic relationship to form a cell, which denote a higher chance of survival. Which leads to multicellular organisms. But Ill give you credit, not so smart guy, you totally dodged my points. So religion is the answer to this? LOL

Where did the single cell come from? The incredibly complex system of organelles, ie., mitochondria, ribosomes, endoplasmic reticulum, golgi complex, lysosomes, peroxisomes... where did the secretory granules come from?

None of this could survive without the entire system already in place. The complexity of a single cell is far beyond the possibility of random happenstance.

The cell supports the nucleolus, wherein lies the nucleous, and the incredibly complex double helix of the DNA.

All that just happened by accident, and then it got more complex and formed 'us', with self awareness?

right....

 

[CyniQ]

Not by accident, DNA is running the show here buddy! Mitochondria have there own DNA for your information!!!! Not so smart guy regurgitating already factual information not denying my argument. And those organelles can survive without a cell, but they have formed a symbiotic relationship to form a cell, which denote a higher chance of survival. Which leads to multicellular organisms. But Ill give you credit, not so smart guy, you totally dodged my points. So religion is the answer to this? LOL

You're so infatuated with your own perceived intelligence it's absolutely hilarious. You're a fucking comedian. Virtually nothing you say makes any sense and you act as if you've solved the mysteries of the universe. "My theory". LMAO. Keep 'em coming. You're cracking me up.

 

[goldstone_77]

I've been ROTFLMAO from the min. I first read this thread!I'm infatuated with the lack of intelligence displayed by you Cro Mags, and it is absolutely hilarious! Nothing I have said made since, eh? Wow Big SHOCKER there! I wouldn't have expected you to understand, or even attempt a rebuttal. But the anal expulsive commentary is quite humors, I say unto you dude, keep them coming!

You're so infatuated with your own perceived intelligence it's absolutely hilarious. You're a fucking comedian. Virtually nothing you say makes any sense and you act as if you've solved the mysteries of the universe. "My theory". LMAO. Keep 'em coming. You're cracking me up.

 

[CyniQ]

I've been ROTFLMAO from the min. I first read this thread!I'm infatuated with the lack of intelligence displayed by you Cro Mags, and it is absolutely hilarious! Nothing I have said made since, eh? Wow Big SHOCKER there! I wouldn't have expected you to understand, or even attempt a rebuttal. But the anal expulsive commentary is quite humors, I say unto you dude, keep them coming!

Hmmm. I rest my case.

 

[Bob Smith]

Bob, I'm sorry your so basic.... I thought that summed it up perfect? You must not be reading all my post... Read the last few. What do you think about my single cell theory, and the platypus? The single cell, tie's in my theory on the bacteria, you probably didn't catch that.... Shocker there?

Apparently you are so intelligent and complex that you completely overlooked the very basic. You havent even remotely come close to answering my question regarding the bacteria. Youve babbled on and on incoherently about the platypus but failed to address my question about bacteria. Please do so.

Remember, Im so simple that I need things spelled out for me.

 

[goldstone_77]

Bacteria are bacteria! There is no concrete proof of speciation. You have to take a leap of faith that they evolved into other species. There is evidence: anti-biotic resistance, and resistance to bacteriophages. These are the stepping-stones of evolution. A mule is an example of speciation, but not evolution, since it cannot reproduce. Like I was trying to say in my previous posts. There is more evidence, in my mind, leading toward evolution, and not religion in the creation of the world and life. You still have given no comment on anything else I have said in my last few posts? You ridiculed my post on the platypus, but failed to say why? You totally ignored my point of sexual reproduction as to the proof that a single cell could become a human being or any other animal. You also failed to recognize the evidence I supplied expressing the huge leap of faith you have to take to believe in Christianity knowing the origins of the Bible.

Case Closed, the defense rests your honor!

p.s. Don't pick on the platypus Mean people suck! It's not his fualt your God has a sense of humor!

http://www.bacteriamuseum.org/niches/evolution/mutation.shtml

Apparently you are so intelligent and complex that you completely overlooked the very basic. You havent even remotely come close to answering my question regarding the bacteria. Youve babbled on and on incoherently about the platypus but failed to address my question about bacteria. Please do so.

Remember, Im so simple that I need things spelled out for me.

 

[CyniQ]

Yeah. What the Fuck? Goldstone? Is your name really DumbellBenchPress?

I know Grizz gets that one. As for the rest of you... how are your memories?

 

[goldstone_77]

I can see how you find life so difficult to understand! You don't have one! ROTFLMAO

Hmmm. I rest my case.

 

[CyniQ]

I can see how you find life so difficult to understand! You don't have one! ROTFLMAO

My dear goldstone. If I were half as enraptured by my own jokes as you are by yours, I wouldn't need a life.

 

[Weatherlite]

HOLY SHIT!!!! I think I've lost track of who believes what in this thread!!!

So, what about the possibility of a creator creating life through evolution? Does anyone believe that's a possibility?

 

[CyniQ]

HOLY SHIT!!!! I think I've lost track of who believes what in this thread!!!

So, what about the possibility of a creator creating life through evolution? Does anyone believe that's a possibility?

Not so much. Depends on how you define "evolution". If, by "evolution". You mean, "speciation". Then I'm with you. Other than that. Not I.

 

[Bob Smith]

Bacteria are bacteria! There is no concrete proof of speciation. You have to take a leap of faith that they evolved into other species. There is evidence: anti-biotic resistance, and resistance to bacteriophages. These are the stepping-stones of evolution.

I appreciate you answering my question.

What you described doesnt sound like evolution at all. How is bacteria developing a resistance to a drug a move towards a more complex organism? At what point does the bacteria become, say, an ant or a fish or something other than a bacteria?

You still have given no comment on anything else I have said in my last few posts? You ridiculed my post on the platypus, but failed to say why?

Other than babbling on and on, you never made an actual point in regards to the platypus. Is your point that only evolution could "create" an animal that doesnt seem to match anything else that we know of? That the platypus is an example of evolution because its an intermediate step between a half dozen other animals? Ill respond to this a little later when I Have more time.

You totally ignored my point of sexual reproduction as to the proof that a single cell could become a human being or any other animal.

When an egg/sperm combo from a human produces a duck or a sheep or something other than a human, then Ill consider your point. Otherwise, I dont think its proof of anything, whether evolution or creation.

You also failed to recognize the evidence I supplied expressing the huge leap of faith you have to take to believe in Christianity knowing the origins of the Bible.

Again, you post a bunch of comments from someone else but never actually make a point. When you argue for/against a particular point of view, normally you provide evidence (which you did) and end with a conclusion or recommendation. You have a habit of leaving out that last bit on most of your posts. When you make a point regarding the origins of the Bible and how I could believe in it, then I'll actually address your point. But I want to know what your point is first.

Case Closed, the defense rests your honor!

Wow, there must be an extremely low tolerance for burden of proof.

p.s. Don't pick on the platypus Mean people suck! It's not his fualt your God has a sense of humor!

Listen asshole, I try not to make any of my comments personal attacks against you. But i am getting sick and tired of you making these little snide remarks about my intellect, my belief in something other than evolution and the other bullshit "jokes" you amuse yourself with. Stick to the topic at hand and leave out the personal attacks.

 

[Weatherlite]

CyniQ, yes I mean creation through speciation. I personally believe that a duck giving birth to a quail (or rather laying the egg) would be an example of evolution and I think evolution in that fashion is bullshit. However, a duck-like creature turning into modern duck over tens of thousands of years is very plausible. To me that is what real evolution is...or rather as some call it speciation.

So, I see no reason why a creator couldn't have this happen. As far as how there was the transfer from a lower creature to a higher one, well that's for the creator to decide! Personally I believe it's possible and I figure it must have had something to do with a co-beneficial relationship.

Hypothetically speaking, it's possible there was a bacteria which consumed oxygen and spat out CO2. Next door is a bacteria which consumed CO2 and spat out oxygen. They co-existed fine for years never knowing the other was there but always supporting each other. Then, it's possible that they entered an environment in which CO2 and oxygen were in short supply. But, since their neighbors were producing what they needed they suddenly got thrown into a co-dependent existence. Over the years they naturally migrated closer and closer for efficiency and then eventually attached themselves to each other. Voila, the first multi-celled organism. Evolution continued from there. (not the version in which a duck shits out a water buffalo!)

I know the above example is very "convenient" but it's just a basic theory showing how something may have been possible.

 

[Neodavid]

You didn't answer my questions. Pushing it back to DNA running the show means nothing. Where did that come from. How did it 'decide' to suddenly form a cell membrane and all of the other functional aspects of a cell?

Ad-hominems are a logical fallacy and only demonstrate your lack of ability to have a decent conversation. It also proves cowardice, as you certainly wouldn't say these things to people in person (and keep any of your teeth).

The organelles by the way, are a product of the DNA blueprint that creates them. Obviously NOT symbiotic, not another life form, but arising from the design.

You may honestly not be able to follow this, as your posts indicate somewhat of a perverted understanding of logic and communication, or a serious lack of any desire for a real conversation.

But if the organelle was a seperate entity symbiotically linked to the cell, how would the DNA pattern be incorporated into that cells Nucleous so the cell would start growing them on thier own?

On the intelligence thing, I'd be willing to bet most guys here have a higher IQ than you do. At least they can think and keep a conversation to the point. You are the master dodger, btw, not having answered my questions.

The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate evolution. You can't, there isn't a single case of a positive mutation, much less development of a new species. There is a tremendous lack of what should be the most common type of fossil, i.e., intermediary species.

Please do give evidence that a cell could last without organelles, or that organelles could develop and reproduce without a cell, and explain how this information would be transfered to the DNA in the nucleous.

Not by accident, DNA is running the show here buddy! Mitochondria have there own DNA for your information!!!! Not so smart guy regurgitating already factual information not denying my argument. And those organelles can survive without a cell, but they have formed a symbiotic relationship to form a cell, which denote a higher chance of survival. Which leads to multicellular organisms. But Ill give you credit, not so smart guy, you totally dodged my points. So religion is the answer to this? LOL

 

[Neodavid]

Then the fossil record should show these thousands of intermediate forms. They should be more common than anything else. Every species should have thousands of intermediate stages as they change so incredibly slowly from one species to another.

CyniQ, yes I mean creation through speciation. I personally believe that a duck giving birth to a quail (or rather laying the egg) would be an example of evolution and I think evolution in that fashion is bullshit. However, a duck-like creature turning into modern duck over tens of thousands of years is very plausible. To me that is what real evolution is...or rather as some call it speciation.

So, I see no reason why a creator couldn't have this happen. As far as how there was the transfer from a lower creature to a higher one, well that's for the creator to decide! Personally I believe it's possible and I figure it must have had something to do with a co-beneficial relationship.

Hypothetically speaking, it's possible there was a bacteria which consumed oxygen and spat out CO2. Next door is a bacteria which consumed CO2 and spat out oxygen. They co-existed fine for years never knowing the other was there but always supporting each other. Then, it's possible that they entered an environment in which CO2 and oxygen were in short supply. But, since their neighbors were producing what they needed they suddenly got thrown into a co-dependent existence. Over the years they naturally migrated closer and closer for efficiency and then eventually attached themselves to each other. Voila, the first multi-celled organism. Evolution continued from there. (not the version in which a duck shits out a water buffalo!)

I know the above example is very "convenient" but it's just a basic theory showing how something may have been possible.

 

[Neodavid]

Why do people think it is so hard to believe in evolution?

Because there isn't much evidence, but they try to make it out as a fact, or science (though it isn't, as it is not observable, nor experimentally testable).

It's utterly ludicrous to imagine complex systems arise by chaotic happenstance. It goes against every observable phenomenon, and the basic laws of science (entropy).

It goes against the simple fact that all observable mutations are negative.

I answered your post about the bacteria, but you avoided answering it.

Creation ex-nihilo requires 'apparent age', and the bottom line is common sense tells you a design came from a designer. If you find a watch, do you imagine it came about from an expoding hand grenade?

That aside, I also feel God's presence, and have spent 28 years knowing him. He has worked a large number of miracles, something which 'is' observable and testable.

Therefore I cannot possibly believe in evolution (logic, data, and my own experience).

 

[Bob Smith]

Neo, its not worth it. Youre not going to get answers to your questions, or my questions.

 

[Neodavid]

Your probably right, but sometimes it's nice to fully expose the BS. When people see he's isn't answering, they know he's full of bologne.

Neo, its not worth it. Youre not going to get answers to your questions, or my questions.