Thanks. I've been to this places website. I was wondering if this might've been the place you were talking about, that's why I asked. With COVID, the past 2 years have been rough, financially. I can't drop 10K+ on Gyno surgery, but need it fuckin BADDDD. I have big hard lumps and when I flex my chest you can really see it. It's not too bad if I'm relaxed, but I'm sooooo self conscious of it that I never remove my shirt. I won't even go swimming because I'm embarrassed and I'm at 10% BF and look really good. It's not "fat" it's huge glands. I got it 30 year's ago when I first did gear in the early 90's and I've lived with it this entire time. My wife's away for a month so I'm going to give this place a call. 5K - 7K is where I'd like to be, if at all possible. I don't understand how Lebowitz charges what he does, and it's without anesthesia. The guys making a fukin killing for an hours worth of work. I don't begrudge anyone charging whatever they want, but 16K is not anywhere remotely close to any other doctors.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Steroids, Gynecomastia and Gyno Surgery
- Thread starter Millard
- Start date
They are both too expensive IMO. Dr Adajar is fucking incredible and will be $4k less.
Damn man I am sorry to hear that. I don't know how these people can charge that much either. I guess it is just supply and demand, but that is off the walls crazy prices. I have FULL confidence that Dr Adajar would take care of you VERY well. He is fucking incredible. He himself had gyno and lifts weights and is on TRT, and he's said he works with a lot of body builders and gear users. He's a really great guy and extremely talented artist when it comes to shaping bodies. I recommend him wholeheartedly!
I would think that'd be possible. It can depend on the severity of the case. Let us know what you find out! Or PM if that works better for you. I'd definitely like to be updated
TheIncomparableMrHarrow
Well-known Member
How did your surgery go? Any updates?
Frozen
Well-known Member
The left side came out better then I could’ve dreamed about, right side got a pretty bad seroma formation That’s had to be drained a few times and swelling is still there pretty bad, im 60 days post op today. The surgeon took a total of about 450 cc of tissue out, said the right side was worst than the left. I honestly think my first 3 days post op I didn’t have the best compression which allowed that fluid to build up on the right side. I’ve completely resumed all training except chest.
Bork
Member
Had gyno since I was a kid. Tamoxifen lowers the prominence for me, and getting in a fight with a fucking bear gave me free gyno surgery, but only part of it and only on one side.
I’ll probably drop $5k to remove it after I do my cycle.
I’ll probably drop $5k to remove it after I do my cycle.
RoidmeDangerfield
Member
Yeah, I could too, it's just even more enhanced now after the lipo. I am definitely glad I had it done, but yes it was $4.5k for the procedure "Chest Sculpt" procedure they call it.
It's all good, the pain is long gone
I paid $4.3k for one of the best surgeons in the US, based out of Chicago, who did full gland removal and lipo. There was a price increase so now they charge $5,500 I believe. Couldn't be happier with the results and super glad I did it. The clinic I went to was Xsculpt and the doc was Doctor Adajar. 80% of his procedures are gyno removal so he is VERY practiced at what he does and he is also big into lifting, he is a pretty big and muscular dude. Really great guy, someone you'd be happy to hang out and have a drink with! I honestly just can't say enough good things about that place. Also he will do virtual consultations over zoom, which is nice if he isn't local to you.
I just recently went back on tren and this seems to have irritated and brought back my gyno. If you look back to January 2020 you'll see that I posted to this thread talking about my previous gyno surgery. It was successful at removing the glandular lumps but my surgeon didn't remove all of the tissue. Now I'm back to having gyno again. At first it was coming back on one side. Now I can definitely feel lumps on both side.
I've reached out to this doctor in Chicago at Xsculpt. Thanks for your post. I hope to have a consultation soon. Incidentally, the surgeon I had my gyno surgery with in the past is also located in Chicago but he won't remove all of the tissue. I need to have all of the tissue removed to prevent this from coming back. I'm really disappointed that this came back.
BigRed91
Well-known Member
Keep us updated if u get surgery there or pm me please as ive thought about going there as well
RoidmeDangerfield
Member
^ Will do.
Damn im sorry to hear that man. For reasons I don't fully understand most docs won't remove all the tissue. They say it is to prevent concave nipples, but it seems to me like the best surgeons all remove it all just fine and don't habe issues with concave nipples. I think that might be "the standard" though thay these docs get taught in school so most just go by the books.
Unfortunately even full gland removal still leaves a tiny, tiny bit of tissue behind, usually the stuff comnected to the skin at the actual tip of the nip. I don't think they can safely/accurately scrape away the stuff there. They would basically need to remove your nipple and then you'd look like this guy, and he looks rather upset:
But yeah, for all intents and purposes it is full gland removal. You would have to REALLY fuck up your hormones for a long time for it to come back to any noticeable degree.
RoidmeDangerfield
Member
^ Thanks for that info. Just to be clear, I just turned 50. When I posted a year ago about my gyno surgery I was in my early to mid thirties. So it's been a at least a good fifteen years since I had no issues.
It seemed to start coming back right before COVID took over. And that's because I ramped up my HRT dose from 200mg a week to 450mg. At least that's what I'm thinking.
Also, I can't explain all the details and science behind it all but I used to follow a keto diet and also did intermittent fasting. When I went up to 450mg of test a week I did away with my older dieting habits and I started eating a lot more carbs and was eating a lot more frequently. I can't put my finger on it completely but I firmly believe there is something related to increasing insulin and IGF-1 levels through constant feeding and I believe it somehow works together with the higher testosterone levels which aggravated my gyno and brought it back. I swear after I'd eat large carb meals within hours I would become aware of the tenderness and mild discomfort under my nipples where the gyno is located. I also notice when I eat less and occasionally fast that the lumps seem less prominent.
Thankfully, at this point it's not visible, but the gyno is uncomfortable. When I hoist 105lb dumbbells onto my chest to do flat bench presses, or even the pressure of the water from the shower at full force hitting my chest it just feels tender and it bothers me. I want them gone. Hopefully this'll be my last time. By the way I have my phone consultation set up with X-Sculpt scheduled for next month. I'll keep updates here.
It seemed to start coming back right before COVID took over. And that's because I ramped up my HRT dose from 200mg a week to 450mg. At least that's what I'm thinking.
Also, I can't explain all the details and science behind it all but I used to follow a keto diet and also did intermittent fasting. When I went up to 450mg of test a week I did away with my older dieting habits and I started eating a lot more carbs and was eating a lot more frequently. I can't put my finger on it completely but I firmly believe there is something related to increasing insulin and IGF-1 levels through constant feeding and I believe it somehow works together with the higher testosterone levels which aggravated my gyno and brought it back. I swear after I'd eat large carb meals within hours I would become aware of the tenderness and mild discomfort under my nipples where the gyno is located. I also notice when I eat less and occasionally fast that the lumps seem less prominent.
Thankfully, at this point it's not visible, but the gyno is uncomfortable. When I hoist 105lb dumbbells onto my chest to do flat bench presses, or even the pressure of the water from the shower at full force hitting my chest it just feels tender and it bothers me. I want them gone. Hopefully this'll be my last time. By the way I have my phone consultation set up with X-Sculpt scheduled for next month. I'll keep updates here.
I definitely recall seeing data or a study or something which I am too lazy to look up right now at 4 AM, that discussed a positive correlation between increased IGF and gyno. It causes tissue growth, breast tissue is tissue. It makes sense. Will see if I can dig up the study later. Or if I am just misremembering.
Okay, I wrote this like a week or so ago and saved it, but haven't been able to post til now. I found a bunch if studies. IGF-1 at the very minimum exacerbates existing gyno as it causes breast tissue growth in males and females. It doesn't necessarily appear to do so all by itself if hormones are normal, although it is possible it could., but definitely has a growth effect when e2 is elevated, even if the Test:estrogen ratio is normal.
My take: you may want to keep e2 a little lower than normal if you are concerned about gyno and are gonna run HGH or GH peptides. IMO it might be better to just not run HGH or GH peptides, especially if you do have preexisting gyno to any degree at all. I know in my experience GH peptides definitely worsened my childhood gyno, though didn't realize it at the time, looking back it is super obvious.
Summary: high IGF-1 levels, especially in tandem with higher e2, exacerbate gyno and increase risk of developing gyno. HGH and high IGF-1 can possibly even cause gyno on their own.
Studies:
A Longitudinal Study of Growth, Sex Steroids, and IGF-1 in Boys With Physiological Gynecomastia - PubMed
A Longitudinal Study of Growth, Sex Steroids, and IGF-1 in Boys With Physiological Gynecomastia
Growth hormone treatment induces mammary gland hyperplasia in aging primates - PubMed
To investigate the effects of GH/IGF-I augmentation on mammary tissue in a model relevant to aging humans, we treated aged female rhesus monkeys with GH, IGF-I, GH + IGF-I or saline diluent for 7 weeks. IGF-I treatment was associated with a twofold increase, GH with a three- to fourfold increase, and GH + IGF-I with a four'-to fivefold increase in mammary glandular size and epithelial proliferation index.
Elevated serum IGF-I, but unaltered sex steroid levels, in healthy boys with pubertal gynaecomastia - PubMed
Elevated serum IGF-I, but unaltered sex steroid levels, in healthy boys with pubertal gynaecomastia
Sex Hormone Profile in Pubertal Boys With Gynecomastia and Pseudogynecomastia - PubMed
True gynecomastia is characterized by a relative T deficiency to E2 concentrations in contrast to pseudogynecomastia.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
So yeah, that's that.
As far as your thing about eating, it could just be the carb heavy diet causing more water retention, which makes the gyno look worse but isn't truly causing growth.
I actually have used a skin fold caliper on my nipples so I have an objective measurement of it. It is the only way to truly know if any lumps are growing
I cant say much about your experience with eating, although I would suggest it is possible the acute effect you feel is perhaos somewhat mental. I never experienced anything like that before or after my gyno surgery, so I can't really say.
Good luck with your appointment!
RoidmeDangerfield
Member
^ Thanks for posting all of that. I can feel the lumps and when I squeeze down on them they hurt. It can sometimes feel uncomfortable just to lay on my stomach and watch TV while in bed. And even the pressure of the water from the shower on my gyno causes it to hurt. It's not unbearable but it's definitely something I noticed when I increased my HRT dose from 200 to 450 a week and now again that I'm on tren enanthate.
Your experience is anecdotal just like mine. Just because you don't experience what I do doesn't make it any less valid and vice a versa. In my case, luckily my gyno isn't visible either shirtless or when I wear a tight shirt. This was also the case when I had them removed years ago. And I had the benign tumors in a small bottle in formaldehyde that the surgeon let me keep to show what I could feel in my chest even though my nipples never really looked puffy or had a protrusion of mass around the nipple area. They looked like large chunks of overcooked shrimp and were whitish in color.
IGF levels do go up when insulin is spiked. I even talked to my surgeon in Chicago and he knew what I was getting at. I tried to do more research just now and all I can find is gynecomastia can be associated with insulin resistance. Maybe I might low level of insulin resistance. I do accumulate lower back fat that I can't stand that seems to be correlated with insulin resistance. But as long as I do my cardio three to five times a week regularly I can keep that under control.
Seems like so much can cause gyno. I just read that HCG levels that are too high can cause gyno but that makes sense since it raise estrogen/estradiol. Liver failure can cause gyno. Thankfully that's not me.
Your experience is anecdotal just like mine. Just because you don't experience what I do doesn't make it any less valid and vice a versa. In my case, luckily my gyno isn't visible either shirtless or when I wear a tight shirt. This was also the case when I had them removed years ago. And I had the benign tumors in a small bottle in formaldehyde that the surgeon let me keep to show what I could feel in my chest even though my nipples never really looked puffy or had a protrusion of mass around the nipple area. They looked like large chunks of overcooked shrimp and were whitish in color.
IGF levels do go up when insulin is spiked. I even talked to my surgeon in Chicago and he knew what I was getting at. I tried to do more research just now and all I can find is gynecomastia can be associated with insulin resistance. Maybe I might low level of insulin resistance. I do accumulate lower back fat that I can't stand that seems to be correlated with insulin resistance. But as long as I do my cardio three to five times a week regularly I can keep that under control.
Seems like so much can cause gyno. I just read that HCG levels that are too high can cause gyno but that makes sense since it raise estrogen/estradiol. Liver failure can cause gyno. Thankfully that's not me.
RoidmeDangerfield
Member
I had my consultation with Dr. Adajar very recently. I finally got the information for pricing today via email. Unfortunately it's $7K which is too high for me. But that's only due to the fact that I've already had this fucking procedure done twice already in the past and I'm tired of shelling out more money to have it done a third time. I would have done it for $5,500 as you thought the price was. But after I have to pay for airfare to and from Chicago and then pay for lodging it's going to get too costly.
Luckily, as I mentioned in other posts. My gyno is not visible either shitless or when I wear a tight t-shirt. There's no visible appearance of the gyno but I can palpate the lumps on either side. Also, I figure since I'm 50 years old why go through all this trouble and expense when it's not that terrible? If I were in my twenties I'd think it'd be worth it. At this rate, if I have to take a little more aromatase inhibitors now and then to keep it under control, then that's what I'll do.
Oh well....
BigRed91
Well-known Member
Damn 7k thats more than i figured it woukd be with him but still cheaper than 2 quotes i got and mine isnt bad at all either.
I had Dr Marc Adajar cut my gyno out yesterday. Minimal pain some swelling so far so good. No chest, back or cardio for 2 weeks. I got it at puberty had a general surgeon cut it out 20 years ago, but no Lopo was done and he didn’t get all the gland so it came back. Being older I have concentrated on being leaner so over the last 5 years it has really started bugging me so I got it cut out. Total cost was $6,500.
Hello.
If anyone is interested in gynecomastia removal surgery in Europe, I will have surgery in Poland within the next month.
the cost is about 5k pln (1k £ / 1.2k $) plus travel and hotel costs (although I am Polish, I live in England) so airbnb + ticket prices are around £ 100- £ 200
I will post the result after surgery
If anyone is interested in gynecomastia removal surgery in Europe, I will have surgery in Poland within the next month.
the cost is about 5k pln (1k £ / 1.2k $) plus travel and hotel costs (although I am Polish, I live in England) so airbnb + ticket prices are around £ 100- £ 200
I will post the result after surgery
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