Blagtheripper
New Member
I am going to continue to assume that this will be yet another overhyped and underutilized system until I see confirmation of a different outcome
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
STOCK UP: Don't say you weren't warned! (US)
- Thread starter Ghoul
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Ghoul
Well-known Member
Overhyped, just the like the 40,000 airport carry on baggage scanners being replaced around the world that are so effective at identifying materials they can discern between liquids, even within steel bottles, that are as much as 99% water.
Blagtheripper
New Member
The major factor causing my suspicions would be the actual supplier of these scanners, people have been saying that these guys are essentially first class bullshitters. Of course I could be wrong, and considering how totalitarian everything has been becoming, I probably am.
Ghoul
Well-known Member
So after 25,years of banning liquids, gels, or creams over 100ml on aircraft, they're now being allowed not based on the reality these machines can accurately identify the 100+ explosives and hazardous chemicals but on "BS".
View: https://youtu.be/nyG8XAmtYeQ
Relevant portions around 2 minutes and 6 minutes.
I'll add these are low end Dual Energy Computed Tomography machines. The key is two different x-ray energy levels (Dual Energy) are used to scan. which can be compared, revealing the atomic number of the material.
Where fewer are needed, as they mention are used for checked baggage, additional tech like spectral xrays (many different power levels) and backscatter sensors are added to enable even more accurate material detection. For instance, one validation test is mixing a bag of milk powder and sugar, and ensuring the machine can determine the percentage of each within the mixture.
Where extreme high speed is needed, algorithms, built on detailed analysis of targeted contraband, are being used to shorten the detection time to a fraction usually required. AI generated "shortcuts".
Since there are so many different types of equipment being used, Customs agencies around the world have agreed to standardize the format of these algorithms, so they can share them with each other as new threats and forms of contraband are identified.
The systems are so accurate, they can identify the components of a single pill (in fact pharma manufacturers are beginning to use these for quality control instead of conventional lab analysis).
When contraband is detected in a package it's automatically kicked off the high speed conveyor so customs agents can deal with it. This means agents no longer need to watch a screen as packages pass slowly through an xray machine, and packaging inspection capacity will increase by over 1000 times what's currently possible.
Sample of materials used for testing security scanners. Note they can differentiate between styles of beer.
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Blagtheripper
New Member
Man you’re telling me that I’m gonna have to live in a world where I can’t juice but I still have to deal with tweakers bro what
Blagtheripper
New Member
I do appreciate the video included, it gives a good idea of what the basic function of these things are. Very interesting and simultaneously enraging stuff. EDIT can’t cope smoking ganja and watching Split as I type brb fellas
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Ghoul
Well-known Member
I decided the topic was too damn complicated to explain in a post, and not worth the effort.
I came across this a couple of days ago, and as you can see, he makes it very understandable.
Without it, a lot of people think accurately identifying specific materials at the molecular level is science fiction, or at best, limited to well equipped research labs, not a high speed conveyor.
This is a huge leap in tech. It won't be long before this is how blood samples will be quickly analyzed and autopsies will be conducted in a matter of minutes without a single incision or sample sent off for analysis.
The bottom line is, the only packages with contraband that will be getting in are those they don't scan. Raws will probably start getting hiked in over the southern border in Pedro's backpack, but I think It'll be a much different scene a year from now.
Blagtheripper
New Member
I blame the ozempic craze
Ghoul
Well-known Member
Whatever it is, it's not gear. I don't even think it's fentanyl that's the primary driver.
I think it's the ability to scan packages and automatically impose customs duty (and state sales tax) based on the contents, to the tune of tens of billions of dollars a year.
Drugs are just the excuse for putting this kind of 100% inspection regime in place.
Blagtheripper
New Member
As usual it’s about control. I really do hate the ozempic craze though, it certainly hasn’t helped keep shit under wraps with Celebs going off talking about the shit. One part of me believes that they won’t stop shit from coming in so that they can keep putting fent users on their very own pharma sponsored opioids for that big money, and another part of me thinks that this will be the beginning of an actual worldwide control the likes of which have never been seen before.
Should be other incentives in introducing these scanners?
I mean if again you can bring your own liquids to airport worldwide would cause a massive drops in airport sales + you need huge initial investments + training people to use the equipments. and we haven't seen terrorist using these liquids as a succesful way to cause harm (based on 25 years). so i dont see why it changes.
What do I don't understand in this equation?
Ghoul
Well-known Member
The equipment is already 100% in place in the UK. The US will need a few years because they're so expensive.
By getting people through security faster there's more time to shop at the stores and eat at the restaurants on the other side.
Ghoul
Well-known Member
I realize you just got here, do you need an assist getting the ignore button to work properly?
Ateam2023
Well-known Member
watch out for them "tweekers" lol they'll get ya every rime
egruberman
Well-known Member
They're still not identifying specific materials at the molecular level. They're identifying the density of a material and the relative absorption of high and low level xrays. Yes, it can be tuned to identify materials, but it can also be defeated. The manufacturer is pretty specific that this device is tuned to identify explosives and is marketed at baggage handling. It's in the name of the products themselves, "Explosives Detection System".
It's quite a large logical leap to presume that this technology will stem the flow of packages into the US any time in the near future. Sure, the de minimis ruling allows for direct shipments of packages to individuals in the US via air freight. At some point, that may be compromised, but that's years away and once compromised we're presuming that the technology can't be defeated or that there aren't alternative ingress routes.
Ultimately, I think the real issue is that importers are avoiding duties, which leads me to wonder whether simply declaring something on the declaration "cosmetics" and paying a nominal duty would avert a great deal of scrutiny.
Here's how I expect it will go:
Who are you talking to?
egruberman
Well-known Member
He is addressing you, in text, I might add because you are complaining about his posting habits, asserted that you put him on ignore and yet continue to respond to his posts.
Ohh okay!
Ghoul
Well-known Member
It's not a logical leap at all. It's not "tuned" to anything, as if explosives all share some signature the machine is detecting. Half the banned liquids aren't even explosives, like bleach, acids, poisons. It detects whatever algorithms it's loaded with, and it's not as if that's limited in any serious way. While TSA may not be looking for drugs. and as a matter of policy not load the "cocaine algorithm" that hardly means it's not capable of it.
I'm not sure where you get "they can be fooled" from, because if you know that's possible, so would an attacker intent on blowing up an aircraft, setting up the switch to these machines to be a colossal disaster.
But those relatively simple machines, are a non-sequiter, since that's not what customs would use. In fact, the video points out checked baggage scanners are more advanced, using SPECTRAL CT. Instead of 2 x-ray powers, those are capable of switching between thousands of power levels, along with backscatter detectors capable of identifying the relative proportions of mixed powders in a bag. They can easily discern varieties of beer.
The fact that even without spectral power hundreds of substances that are 97-99% water can be discerned from each other doesn't constitute "identifying materials at the molecular level" according to you just shows how much in denial you are.
Using the more
sophisticated units equipped with spectral power, backscatter, density, 3d modeling, and AI analysis I'd love to hear what it is you think can't be detected with that rich set of data and why.
Just a short while ago you insisted a vial of steroids in castor oil could not possibly be identified by X-rays, a liquid with 25% testosterone content for instance, and would at best be seen as castor oil and nothing else. Yet even the lowest end machines for carry ons can discern 97% water, in a steel container, with just 3% hydrogen peroxide, from the same bottle with 3% fruit juice, or 3% Sulfuric acid.
Look, even the guy who made this video, an engineering expert, was taken aback by the capabilities of these devices and how quickly things have progressed. Most people, including myself were unaware of what these devices can do. Just 3 years ago papers were discussing these capabilities as some future tech still on the drawing board. Yet today, many companies are advertising their machines as having these capabilities ready to use, and it's happened at a very surprising pace.
Not just for uses like customs, that's actually a minor use relative to everything else, but pharma is using it to test tablets for the amount of active ingredient. Hospitals are beginning to analyze the content of blood samples with spectral x-rays and AI.
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