Why run anavar and tren together?

[M@NU]

It absolutely is - it’s up there with mast and proviron. That’s why it’s an oral you can stay on much longer and it’s also an oral of choice for women. It’s def one of the less harsh side effect steroids.

no it isnt
and when i read "it aint as liver toxic as some other orals" well yes genius, it is metabolized by the kidneys which makes it worse in my opinion. Your liver is much more forgiving than your kidney.
Also, it crushs your HDL like nothing else. Run it 6 weeks at a decent dosage and your HDL is in the single digits (well, maybe also in the tens).
Stop with that "i dont feel much side effects" bullshit to make yourself believe it is safe.
And come on - dont compare it to superdrol.

 

[lukiss96]

no it isnt
and when i read "it aint as liver toxic as some other orals" well yes genius, it is metabolized by the kidneys which makes it worse in my opinion. Your liver is much more forgiving than your kidney.
Also, it crushs your HDL like nothing else. Run it 6 weeks at a decent dosage and your HDL is in the single digits (well, maybe also in the tens).
Stop with that "i dont feel much side effects" bullshit to make yourself believe it is safe.
And come on - dont compare it to superdrol.

Ok, nobody ever said it's safe and side effect free drug. Nothing in life is free.
Lifting weights is not safe. Dieting is causing stress. So is taking steroids not exactly the best thing to do health wise.

How about my HDL is always in range no matter what I take? I took 1g testosterone for 10 weeks and anadrol for 5 weeks and after six weeks I though I better check my BW, turns out cholesterol is still normal, HDL in range, LDL was not too bad either.

We are just too different to apply all of it ourselves, I get bad acne from some steroids and have to use low dose accutane from time to time it sucks yes, but I don't lose a single hair, my prostate is always fine, bloop pressure is never above 135/70, kidney function good and all other markers good. So I'd say not that bad. Oh, equipoise doesn't skyrocket my RBC and hematocrit like everyone says, actually nothing does, it's not even that high and when I go donate blood (free will, not because I need to do it for health) they don't say a thing and I asked, they said it's not even touching high end of normal. I could post numbers, you or I would have to convert almost everything since US and EU is using different units.

Also what makes people say, don't go by how you feel? It's actually smart to go by how you feel when you have enough experience, when you can identify what side effect is from what and how to manage it. I prefer to feel good or at least fine when I use something, even though my BW might say "I'm fine" but I'm not cuz I feel off. So in this context anavar is making me feel good, while winstrol is making me feel okayish and as an extreme example superdrol is making me feel sick after a week on it.


It's way too individual when it comes to these things. What matters is knowing your body well.

 

[Mechanic]

you said "favorable side effect profile" which is not correct.

But it is? Barely any sides if you watch your Liver markers and drink enough water

Some shedding if you don't react well to DHT.

 

[Juiceduptothemax]

NPP made me insatiable to a point I wanted semaglutide to kill it. I just made this cycle w recomp cycle

Hopefully npp will also make me hungry af, mk677 wasn’t able to do it adding npp this cycle for the appetite, how hungry did it make you?

 

[Rido]

Hopefully npp will also make me hungry af, mk677 wasn’t able to do it adding npp this cycle for the appetite, how hungry did it make you?

My hunger was comparable to me doing dabs(marijuana). Destroying my pantry. My wife was a little shocked

 

[Type-IIx]

The methylation at C17 is what contributes to hepatotoxicity, not the methylation at C2.

As far as I understand, the exact cause of AAS-induced lethargy is not known. From what I can surmise, it actually seems to be caused [at least] partially by a drug's ability to block cortisol from binding to its receptors. This lowers adrenaline production, causing lethargy.

The digestive issues caused by oral AASs also don't seem to correlate strongly to hepatic strain. They cause gastritis in some users, just like Cialis does. As far as I know, the underlying mechanism for this is also unknown.

@Type-IIx knows this stuff better than I do though. Hopefully he can drop some knowledge on this topic.

There are certainly distinct mechanisms that contribute to a dissociation between hepatotoxicity and lethargy, often involving differential effects on glucocorticoids (e.g., Halo inhibition of 11β-HSD2 vs. Dbol slowing the rate of production of adrenocortical steroids by inhibiting either the production or release of ACTH). The data on Superdrol in this regard is limited.

Certainly, the addition of a 2α-methyl to the 17α-methylated 5α-androstane backbone does markedly increase anabolic (and reduce androgenic) potency. And the modern view of hepatotoxicity (Bond & Llewellyn) is that it is essentially a function of potency to activate AR * resistance to hepatic breakdown. It would be my view that Superdrol augments both products (metabolism data shows that 1/6th remains unmetabolized as the parent drug reflecting Superdrol's resistance to hepatic breakdown) and its 2α-methyl markedly increases its potency to activate the AR.

I suppose I'd classify Superdrol as one of the very most potent principally AR-mediated androgens. Tren (I'd contend it principally modulates GRs & increases mIGF-I activity) derives efficacy by features like decreasing GR number (mRNA expression) & increased responsiveness of skeletal muscle satellite cells to intramuscular IGF-I. Yes, Tren is certainly a potent AR ligand, don't confuse my statement (its Δ4,9,11 double bonds in particular give it flatness such that it can really attach into the AR in a knife-like manner; but of course it shares broad homology with the PR, ER, even MR) - but Tren's unique features are not clearly shared by Superdrol.

Weighing the absence of contrary evidence and the associations between hepatic injury and Superdrol in particular, my view is that Superdrol more likely does cause lethargy due to its hepatotoxicity.

As far as gastric distress, I take the view that androgens influence peptic ulcer & acid reflux as discussed here: Androgens and acid reflux, peptic ulcer primarily (hepatotoxicity may certainly contribute to gastric distress but does not explain why Anadrol is commonly associated with this effect).

 

[Para_33]

Believe it or not, anavar is the closest thing to tren regarding severe anabolism in a caloric deficit. The way tren interacts with glucocorticoid receptors is unmatched, but anavar is a distant second, while nothing else really comes close.

Being perfectly factual though, people dramatically overstate tren's anabolism during a bulk. It really isn't any more effective at building muscle in a caloric surplus than many other compounds, but it's quite amazing in a deficit.

As such, anavar is a great alternative for individuals who really experience tren sides.

Personally, I avoid tren, but I love anavar. Large dosages come with their own host of sides, but the strength gains are amazing, and the muscle sparing during a cut is only surpassed by tren.

I agree with what you’ve said, I do have two thoughts to add.

1.) I fully agree that Tren is overstated in its anabolism compared to other compounds, especially when diet is optimized. I think where there might be an exception in the off-season, is when utilizing very high igf1 levels. Weather it comes from high doses of Growth hormone, assuming the person converts/produces Igf1 effectively in response to hgh, or alternatively/even more so using Increlex, Iplex, igf1LR3, or IGF DES ( no personal experience with any of these except hgh and igf1 LR3).

When I used igf1 LR3 (also insulin, but I always use both regular R insulin and Lantus or NPH if I don’t have Lantus on hand/trying to save money lol) with Trenbolone I did notice the effect igf1 LR3 had was more prolonged. I noticed no diminished effect in the super noticeable and obvious pump/look that it gives even when I tried using it up to 10 weeks straight in duration. Normally, I would discontinue igf1 LR3 after 3 weeks and also pull out hgh and do a carb restriction to reset.

2.) as Far as “sustainable” compounds, Tren I think is unmatched in its anticatabolic effects, and while I’ve never tried Halotestin, I think both anecdotally as well as on paper Halotestin is more potent at anti-catabolic effects due to having an entire additional pathway by which is blocks the effects of catabolism- in addition to antagonizing the glucocorticoid receptor like Tren/Anavar do.***caveat*** I think I might be incorrect in how exactly this works, or I might have it backwards- Halotestin also blocks ones of the enzymes that converts cortisone into cortisol. So it actually I think prevents it from being created in the first place. Something like this. I’m going to have to research this further and come back to fix this if I’m wrong.

Also, also, I just tried Anavar for the first time ever yesterday. It’s actually only the 3rd time/3rd dose I’ve ever taken of any oral steroid. In the last 3 weeks or so, I’ve taken 50mg Anadrol 1 time sublingually, didn’t feel much from it actually. But I got very visibly full looking fast. Later than night hours later, massive headache and high BP, I was dehydrated and didn’t realize it but the Anadrol def enhanced it. I maybe got more reps with body weight wide grip pull ups. Then 2 weeks later I tried 37.5 mg Anadrol orally, and this worked much better for strength it seemed, everything I moved felt light at any rep range. I got visibly full and then later bloated looking, but im still 13% bodyfat and have more estrogen than usual right now.

The next day, I took 10mg Anavar sublingual/10 orally, and god damn, this made me look like I dropped down by 3% bodyfat within an hour. It made me stronger too but more in an insurance sense at least for the shoulder exercises I was doing. Was doing 17-18 reps with weight I normally would do for 10 it felt like on lateral raises. I loved the effect of this stuff cosmetically, was the most impressive visual change in a short time next to injectable YK-11 that I ran for 11 days. Those effects came within an hour or two as well after the first dose.

 

[Type-IIx]

Halotestin is more potent at anti-catabolic effects due to having an entire additional pathway by which is blocks the effects of catabolism- in addition to antagonizing the glucocorticoid receptor like Tren/Anavar do.***caveat*** I think I might be incorrect in how exactly this works, or I might have it backwards- Halotestin also blocks ones of the enzymes that converts cortisone into cortisol. So it actually I think prevents it from being created in the first place. Something like this. I’m going to have to research this further and come back to fix this if I’m wrong.

It's OK to get this wrong, I have in the past also. The effect of Halo (competitive inhibition, antagonism) on 11β-HSD2 results in less inactivation of cortisol (so effectively Halo tends to increase cortisol's effects - which might explain some of its propensity to cause aggression; but it is also potently androgenic). By inhibiting 11β-HSD2, Halo leads to glucocorticoid-mediated MR activation, potassium excretion, sodium and water retention, and increased blood pressure (Halo may therefore aggravate atherosclerosis via MR activation and inflammatory processes in the vascular endothelium).

Var does tend to "shed ab fat" via a hepatic ketogenic mechanism. In combination with Tren's commitment of pluripotent mesenchymal (pre-pre-adipocytes) cells to a myogenic rather than adipogenic lineage (increasing skeletal muscle & decreasing adipose tissue [an AR-mediated effect]) & effects on p-ratio (i.e., increased insulin sensitivity in skeletal muscle by augmented satellite cell/mIGF-I responsiveness & decreased PPARγ mRNA expression during increased feeding [PPARγ controls formation of new fat cells, fatty acid uptake and storage, therefore insulin sensitivity]), these two make sense in combination to serve recomp or cutting objectives.

 

[Rido]

The next day, I took 10mg Anavar sublingual/10 orally, and god damn, this made me look like I dropped down by 3% bodyfat within an hour. It made me stronger too but more in an insurance sense at least for the shoulder exercises I was doing. Was doing 17-18 reps with weight I normally would do for 10 it felt like on lateral raises. I loved the effect of this stuff cosmetically, was the most impressive visual change in a short time next to injectable YK-11 that I ran for 11 days. Those effects came within an hour or two as well after the first dose.

you are telling us that anavar made it look like you dropped 3% of bodyfat in an hour?

 

[GreenAmine]

Superdrol more likely does cause lethargy due to its hepatotoxicity

Thanks for the thorough response man!

What confuses me here is that I (and others, through anecdotal reports) have experienced lethargy from oral AASs with bloodwork showing hepatic markers in acceptable ranges. Are these markers simply inadequate indicators of hepatotoxicity?

 

[phenominal34]

you are telling us that anavar made it look like you dropped 3% of bodyfat in an hour?

Yea I was like …. Huh ???? Idk, these post keep getting crazier and crazier !!!

 

[Live_Evil]

you are telling us that anavar made it look like you dropped 3% of bodyfat in an hour?

Maybe it was coincidentally timed perfectly with the waning of the anadrol's water retention? Maybe he just didn't glance in the mirror until an hour after taking the var?

 

[Para_33]

you are telling us that anavar made it look like you dropped 3% of bodyfat in an hour?

I got noticeably harder and striated. I’m around day 30 of a cut, so it’s possible I was just re loaded up on carbs and the fat loss was starting to show. But it had immediate cosmetic appearance it seems.

I know I didn’t actually drop fat in an hour. Cosmetically with the veins it might as well have been the case though. I even took pictures before and after. Very notable.

 

[Para_33]

My hunger was comparable to me doing dabs(marijuana). Destroying my pantry. My wife was a little shocked

I’ve actually compared the hunger from mk677 before to the ravenous appetite of edible weed lol. Edible thc effects me even more, both psychoactive wise obviously but also the hunger I get from it is much more intense. Mk677 is like even more than that or equal atleast for me

 

[Para_33]

It's OK to get this wrong, I have in the past also. The effect of Halo (competitive inhibition, antagonism) on 11β-HSD2 results in less inactivation of cortisol (so effectively Halo tends to increase cortisol's effects - which might explain some of its propensity to cause aggression; but it is also potently androgenic). By inhibiting 11β-HSD2, Halo leads to glucocorticoid-mediated MR activation, potassium excretion, sodium and water retention, and increased blood pressure (Halo may therefore aggravate atherosclerosis via MR activation and inflammatory processes in the vascular endothelium).

Var does tend to "shed ab fat" via a hepatic ketogenic mechanism. In combination with Tren's commitment of pluripotent mesenchymal (pre-pre-adipocytes) cells to a myogenic rather than adipogenic lineage (increasing skeletal muscle & decreasing adipose tissue [an AR-mediated effect]) & effects on p-ratio (i.e., increased insulin sensitivity in skeletal muscle by augmented satellite cell/mIGF-I responsiveness & decreased PPARγ mRNA expression during increased feeding [PPARγ controls formation of new fat cells, fatty acid uptake and storage, therefore insulin sensitivity]), these two make sense in combination to serve recomp or cutting objectives.

Thanks for that. I’m going to look into this further, i wonder if it’s possible Halo has more pronounced competitive antagonism than var or Tren due to anecdotal evidence showing that it’s a known by some to be one to the more muscle sparing compounds due to the way people deploy it. The reason I wonder that, is because inhibition of the enzyme 11β-HSD2 leads to more actual cortisol levels, but anecdotally it’s seen that despite a tangible increase in cortisol, people don’t experience more rapid muscle breakdown. Maybe leaving only the elevated cortisol to take effect causing aggression but not catabolism because maybe it’s has very strong competitive antagonism of the receptor on some places. Making it like a selective corticosteroid receptor modulator or something.

 

[phenominal34]

Maybe it was coincidentally timed perfectly with the waning of the anadrol's water retention? Maybe he just didn't glance in the mirror until an hour after taking the var?

Lol … cmon ppl!!! It was 10000% not anavar or anything for fucks sake after 1hr. Don’t you think pros would be taking a ton before they walk on stage ?

The human race at its best again

 

[Rido]

I got noticeably harder and striated. I’m around day 30 of a cut, so it’s possible I was just re loaded up on carbs and the fat loss was starting to show. But it had immediate cosmetic appearance it seems.

I know I didn’t actually drop fat in an hour. Cosmetically with the veins it might as well have been the case though. I even took pictures before and after. Very notable.

okay whatever you say bro

 

[Para_33]

okay whatever you say bro

Haha it might be a one off idk. I’m not claiming anything besides I was impressed with it, I got comments from two people who saw me during it too. I’ll be dosing it again in a few min pre workout and see if the same happens again. Maybe it won’t. Have you taken it and had different results ? I’ve heard a lot of other people say the pumps are insane from it too. A killer pump alone makes you look “leaner” when your down around 11-12%.

 

[Rido]

Haha it might be a one off idk. I’m not claiming anything besides I was impressed with it, I got comments from two people who saw me during it too. I’ll be dosing it again in a few min pre workout and see if the same happens again. Maybe it won’t. Have you taken it and had different results ? I’ve heard a lot of other people say the pumps are insane from it too. A killer pump alone makes you look “leaner” when your down around 11-12%.

Come on Bro. A hour after after talking it? Especially a 10mg dose? I think it's probably just a regular pump/getting lean. It's most likely not even connected.

I love anavar and anadrol but I don't think a 10mg baby dose would have significant changes in your physique after an hour


I use it to assist with a recomp/strength. My results are over time. Not in an hour

 

[Para_33]

Come on Bro. A hour after after talking it? Especially a 10mg dose? I think it's probably just a regular pump/getting lean. It's most likely not even connected.

I love anavar and anadrol but I don't think a 10mg baby dose would have significant changes in your physique after an hour


I use it to assist with a recomp/strength. My results are over time. Not in an hour

It was 20mg sublingual. the pumped seemed significant. I started the workout an hour after. Idk Man, I just popped another 20mg took my usual insulin and gorilla
Mode nitric see what happens.