Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Desibaba, Oct 26, 2006.
That was a great show from Ricky Gervais.
i watched this on netflix
neither here nor there, @Michael Scally MD, you might know this guy, and his "infamous" partner
In regards to free will.....if you don’t believe in free will....how can you make a truth claim? When you make a “truth” claim, you’re rising above the bondage of total subjectivity. Lol
If you don’t believe in free will then there is no such thing as morality and no logical reason as to why we have morals.
There are 3 moral cultures in which our world can exist.
THEONOMOUS- moral law given by God
HETERONOMOUS- law determined by group/governing body
AUTONOMOUS- subjective. Determined by self
Certainly no one would believe that abgiverning body should dictate law as to what is “moral.” 99.99% of people would dismiss this instantly. The problem with autonomy is as soon as you disagree with someone else’s view and demand they accept yours, you’re switching back to a heteronomous view.
The only logical one is theonomous.
“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.”
Romans 1:18-20 ESV
I use to think the same way you did bud I grew up in the church and hated God for 10 years of my life. I said “he created me and if I can’t understand him based off the knowledge and understanding he has given me, how can I be to blame.”
The fact is, after accepting Christ in my life again I still sin, we all do.....so you cannot day we are inherently good, we are indeed inherently evil. The fact of Gods wrath on humanity He created bothered me for awhile, but now looking back, having received the knowledge and wisdom, yet I still choose to sin at times....proves Gods justification.
No other religion has the amount of manuscripts the Bible has. We have manuscripts dating to the first century BC. How is this not evidence? Not only that the texts recite how Jesus appeared to hundreds of people after his resurrection.....moreover large groups of people.
“Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.”
1 Corinthians 15:6 ESV
When Paul was writing this it was as if he was saying go ask them for yourself....they’re still alive. If it were a lie one would not do this. Hallucinations don’t happen to crowds of people either.
Doesn’t matter what someone does while claiming to be Christian, what matters is what God’s word says, not ones inability to be obedient to it.
The text of the Quran however is complete opposite and dangerous.
Thus you choose which one....with your free will.
“I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,”
Deuteronomy 30:19 ESV
......because if God directly intervened and stopped all things we would have a world completely different than humanity. It’s called free will, people choose to do bad things and do bad things to other people. The great thing is, this isn’t home, and this isn’t eternity. God can’t and won’t violate your free will either to deny Him.
Also, If there is no God, explain morality to me, where it comes from, and why something is morally wrong.
Morality is a societal construct. Generally hard to survive and thrive if I'm clubbing fool's left and right to take their women and eat their children. And I'm probably not going to make it through the winter if I'm robbing my neighbors blind. They'll tell me to fuck off.
It serves a purpose, but that purpose isn't attributeable to God anymore than the flying spaghetti monster.
All beside the point.
God is disprovdi with one word - Ticks.
And? So what?
That's the part you missed.
You shouldn't ask questions if you don't want them answered.
No....you’re missing the point. You made a statement, and my response is so what. Who cares. Try reading what I quoted from you, and then my response.
Better yet, I’ll help. If life has no meaning or purpose and their is no objective moral point of reference.....so what!? Who cares if I murder you, who cares if someone avenges your death and kills me. So what
Society collapses and survival becomes infinitely more difficult. Because we're wrapped up in unending blood fueds?
Society and it's constructs are a function of evolution. It's why you see similar societal structure in primates, prosimians, mammals, all over the natural world actually.
It's simple social contract.
You threaten the group and you're punished as an individual.
God has nothing to do with it.
Nor does one need to believe in a creator to find meaning in life. I'm not sure how one has anything to do with the other beyond your own limited scope of belief.
Probably because it doesn't?
And....if I could care less if I live and I want other people to die....so what!?
You’re still missing the point dude. It’s all purely subjective. If I view no meaning to life, and all of which you said means nothing to ME, how can you say I’m wrong? How can you disagree if you are a materialist and you think that I’m pre-wired to think the way I do.
You’re missing the point just like hitchins, Harris, Dawkins, and the like have missed.
Perhaps go back a few posts and read my one on moral cultures.
If Morality is subjective. If Meaning of life is subjective then all of which you said means nothing. Again, as I said, if I don’t value being born and living and don’t value life in general, why can’t I go a mass murder?
Every worldview must answer 4 fundamental questions.
Only worldview to answer all 4 questions, with a coherency corresponding to “truth” is the Christian world view
Big gods came after the rise of civilisations, not before, finds study using huge historical database
'What better than to come up with a supernatural “eye in the sky” – a god who can see inside people’s minds and issue punishments and rewards accordingly."
Dead men don’t choose and someone who is predestined doesn’t choose. We are either dead in sin or dead to sin. When is the last time a corpse made a choice? If we are chosen, then what choice do we play in that? None.
Precisely....you just lack knowledge to understand the rest of the equation.
Man->God relationship was destroyed in the garden, which is why we need a savior. Man left alone is unable to obtain righteousness or turn to God because He is dead to sin.
Your paraphrasing is just a worse way of proof texting which is precisely what you’re doing.
“For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.”
Hebrews 4:12 ESV
“How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!" But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?" So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for "Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world." But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says, "I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation; with a foolish nation I will make you angry." Then Isaiah is so bold as to say, "I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me." But of Israel he says, "All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people."”
Romans 10:14-21 ESV
“For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.”
Romans 8:2-7 ESV
“And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
Acts 2:38 ESV
Wether it be Peter, John the Baptist, or Jesus, there is a repeated call to repent. Gods word and Jesus is the missing link in your equation. This is what gives us the ability to respond to His calling. This is why salvation rest solely on grace. And that offer is extended to all humans.
“That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,”
Romans 4:16 ESV
I was an atheist until I began to study genetics, which wasn't really possible until the human genome was decoded in 2003.
To me, the complexity of DNA replication and the many mysteries we still have yet to solve, like the protein folding problem, indicates there must be a creator of some kind.
On top of this, time itself appears to be an illusion. The fundamental basis of quantum mechanics is observation changes reality. Dedicated atheists jump through endless hoops to explain this, but Occam's razor indicates the simplest explanation is that "reality" only exists when we are observing it. On the quantum level, when it is recreated, there are slightly imperfections we can now detect.
One can take a stance that is more poetic. We made a deal with the devil with modern technology, as Goethe so eloquently presented in Faust. We had some decades of prosperity, but has technology really given us a better life?
No matter how hard we try, the circumstances of existence either remain the same or become even harder.
And this is all on top of how sick, decadent, and perverted modern society has become. That would require a longer post.