yellow eyes on dnp.

res

New Member
i have had two people come up to me at work and say that my eyes and skin were yellow. said it looked like i had jaundice. anyone know if that is normal?
 
res said:
i have had two people come up to me at work and say that my eyes and skin were yellow. said it looked like i had jaundice. anyone know if that is normal?
My wife says when your eyes and skin turn yellow that's when you already have problems. I wouldn't use that as a sign. That's why we get bloodwork done
 
Your Endo said:
Wait the hell a minute.... where did you guys get liver damage from??

DNP is a yellow powder that stains anything it touches yellow (including the skin) DNP is in his blood so DNP could easily 'stain' his eyes yellow... am I missing something? -Your Endo
Well,that sounds much better.
 
Frosty said:
Isn't like any OTC medicine hard on the liver?

Yes, but otc medicines allow your liver to recover between doses, dyes are designed to stop cellular reproduction, thats how they eliminate bacteria, protozoa etc, cells are dieng continuously, in lower life if they don't mangage to reproduce those cells the bacteria or whatever will just not be there after a while as all the cells have died and not been replaced, the dye hasn't killed the bacteria, its just prevented it from replacing its structure after nature has taken its course. Its like driving your car everyday, at the end of the day theres a fuel defficite, top it up in the morning and all's replaced. If you drive your car for several days without topping up your car will "die", thats why dyes are so dangerous to your liver, they don't allow it to regenerate, hence dnp is classified as highly toxic. Don't get me wrong short term the damage caused will be rectified after the dnp has left your body, but if that body is already compromised by aas damage or whatever, the damage could easily be fatal. I was just making the point that is is completely incorrect to advise people that dnp will not cause major liver damage, it would be the same as saying if you drive your car continuously for a month it wont run out of fuel........................................................
 
http://www.boehringer-ingelheim.es/...glesa/cap13.htm finds that DNP did not activate liver enzymes (MAT) associated with liver damage

As I'm sure you know elevated liver enzymes do not necessarily mean damage. You have to look at which enzymes are elevated, as only a certain type indicate liver damage, and you neglected to say which values were.
Also, there has been a member of this board who had bloodwork done before and after a DNP cycle and had no serious change in over 40 different measures, including liver values.
This guy does not have jaundice because DNP is wrecking havoc on his liver. I also don't understand your reference to insects, are you saying DNP kills them through liver damage? You're saying that they die because cells are not being regenerated, but you don't clearly mention how.
If anyone is that concerned then get bloodwork done (as we all do already anyway......right?). I highly doubt you'll see anything dramatic due to the DNP.
Regards,
-H-
 
Also, DNP is classified as a "toxin" because it causes sweating, nausea, and weight loss, and in a high enough dose can be fatal. It's not because it's cyanide or something.
Regards,
-H-
 
Heretic said:
Also, DNP is classified as a "toxin" because it causes sweating, nausea, and weight loss, and in a high enough dose can be fatal. It's not because it's cyanide or something.
Regards,
-H-
It's classified as a toxin because it's toxic....nobody said it was cyanide....people have known this is a dangerous drug for a long time....well hell it really should'nt be classified as a drug, don't they use the shit in making dynamite...but anyway...it has'nt hurt the sale of the product but people should know....regardless, if they are jaundiced, stop taking WHATEVER the hell your taking. Liver damage is not the worst thing that can happen if you don't know what you're doing or you don't recognize certain signs.
 
Heretic said:
http://www.boehringer-ingelheim.es/...glesa/cap13.htm finds that DNP did not activate liver enzymes (MAT) associated with liver damage

As I'm sure you know elevated liver enzymes do not necessarily mean damage. You have to look at which enzymes are elevated, as only a certain type indicate liver damage, and you neglected to say which values were.
Also, there has been a member of this board who had bloodwork done before and after a DNP cycle and had no serious change in over 40 different measures, including liver values.
This guy does not have jaundice because DNP is wrecking havoc on his liver. I also don't understand your reference to insects, are you saying DNP kills them through liver damage? You're saying that they die because cells are not being regenerated, but you don't clearly mention how.
If anyone is that concerned then get bloodwork done (as we all do already anyway......right?). I highly doubt you'll see anything dramatic due to the DNP.
Regards,
-H-

Firstly this wasn't a stab at you as previously stated, but a warning from a doctor, I also said liver values in a healthy human would return to normal in a healthy human being after cessation of dnp, pity liver values weren't checked during dnp ingestion, ALL the liver values in the trial rats are elevated, even further today as would be scientifically expected by administration of a dye. I have never suggested that the bro with yellow eyes has jaundice. The dictionary definition of a toxin = poison, not a substance that may cause sweating or nausea, that would just be listed as contra indications, I haven't checked the usa classification of dnp, but in the uk its listed on our toxins list as HIGHLY TOXIC.............I really don't need to say any more.
 
How many mg per kg are you giving the rats? Is it comparative to what a human would ingest? And if enzyme values return to normal as you say, then what is the problem with it? Obviously if that is true then someone with a liver condition would not want to take it, but they shouldn't be taking gear, drinking, or using OTC meds either. Look at how many people die from OTC meds each year such as asprin and ibuprofen. I don't think a two week cycle of DNP use is going to kill anyone through liver failure, and I don't think it will cause permanent damage to the liver either, so it seems to be a non-issue. This is just conjecture of course, because there isn't enough research documented in humans and the only research that exists is from the 30's.
And yes toxin means poison, and poison just means anything that can injure or kill through a chemical action, so that includes a lot of things. DNP is considered so hazardous for handling or transport because it's highly flammable and because ingesting too much can be fatal. However you can not absorb enough through the skin to die from it and in a safe work environment inhaling will not kill you either. The EPA classifies it as hazardous because of it's ability to permeate every cell in a living being, especially fish, etc. However it's not a "poison" in the traditional sense that it's designed intent is to kill, except with regards to insects I suppose.
I think your research is interesting bro but you clearly posted this in response to the questions of the guy with yellow eyes having liver damage, which to me indicates that you were suggesting DNP can cause significant enough liver damage to cause jaundice. I apologize if I was mistaken abou this.
Regards,
-H-
 
I wouldn't take a chance with my liver. Alot of people think it can regenerate its cells,but,from what i hear,the regenerated cells are usless,because they aren't in the right sequence. I don't remember what board that article was on,so i can't post it,Unless i have it. let me check.
 
MANWHORE said:
I wouldn't take a chance with my liver. Alot of people think it can regenerate its cells,but,from what i hear,the regenerated cells are usless,because they aren't in the right sequence. I don't remember what board that article was on,so i can't post it,Unless i have it. let me check.
Would like to see that....the liver is very resiliant and can regenerate to a degree and the cells are very useful. :confused: If you find it post it up bro.
 
http://www.boehringer-ingelheim.es/...glesa/cap13.htm finds that DNP did not activate liver enzymes (MAT) associated with liver damage ........... DNP does not cause liver damage: "Their analyses demonstrate, beyond a doubt, that the liver does not suffer any damage in the course of dinitro treatment." (Biological Study of Dinitro Drugs in Humans By Dr. Jacques Bell. Bell, Jacques. 1939. Etude biologique des produits dinitres chez l'homme. Medecine. 19:749-54. Translation 1996 Robert Ames)
........ I have more but i'm sure this article has been around.
 
Southernjuice said:
Would like to see that....the liver is very resiliant and can regenerate to a degree and the cells are very useful. :confused: If you find it post it up bro.
dammit,now your going to make me search for it
:) I'll check other boards.
 
MANWHORE said:
I wouldn't take a chance with my liver. Alot of people think it can regenerate its cells,but,from what i hear,the regenerated cells are usless,because they aren't in the right sequence. I don't remember what board that article was on,so i can't post it,Unless i have it. let me check.

Ok so here are the day 5 results from feeding 15 rats dnp, I make this clear from the beginning this is purely out of scientific interest, being a research scientist I have learnt to disregard any research documented by any bodies involved with the substance tested. All rats have continued with very high total liver values, the amount going up every day. The rats where going to be used for tests using nsaids, and for reasons beyond my control had all been previously fed high carb food (pasta) for the experiments. I injected 2 of the rats with pain killer at the very high dose the others had received for the other experiment, as there were documented clearance times for those rats. 8 hours later the dnp fed rats had shown no reduction in nsaid level except half life expected lowering, in the other rats, nsaid levels dropped 85% in 4 hours, having been nutralised by the animals liver. This would further qualify my observations that dnp whilst being ingested WILL compromise liver function. Once again this is not scaremongering, but just a warning not to accept things on face value, and obviously just to say it would be unsafe to consume alcohol or any other substance requiring liver neutralising whilst on dnp (just common sense really !!!). I appreciate this isn't exact science, and the subjects were rats not humans, but knowing how dyes function, I could not accept statements saying the liver is not compromised whilst taking dnp, I'm sure once dnp clears the system everything will return to normal, bottom line imo anyone considering using dnp should have their liver checked before treatment starts. The experiment was taken using 2mgs per kilo (equating to 200mgs per 200lb human approx.)
 
GRANVILLE said:
Ok so here are the day 5 results from feeding 15 rats dnp, I make this clear from the beginning this is purely out of scientific interest, being a research scientist I have learnt to disregard any research documented by any bodies involved with the substance tested. All rats have continued with very high total liver values, the amount going up every day. The rats where going to be used for tests using nsaids, and for reasons beyond my control had all been previously fed high carb food (pasta) for the experiments. I injected 2 of the rats with pain killer at the very high dose the others had received for the other experiment, as there were documented clearance times for those rats. 8 hours later the dnp fed rats had shown no reduction in nsaid level except half life expected lowering, in the other rats, nsaid levels dropped 85% in 4 hours, having been nutralised by the animals liver. This would further qualify my observations that dnp whilst being ingested WILL compromise liver function. Once again this is not scaremongering, but just a warning not to accept things on face value, and obviously just to say it would be unsafe to consume alcohol or any other substance requiring liver neutralising whilst on dnp (just common sense really !!!). I appreciate this isn't exact science, and the subjects were rats not humans, but knowing how dyes function, I could not accept statements saying the liver is not compromised whilst taking dnp, I'm sure once dnp clears the system everything will return to normal, bottom line imo anyone considering using dnp should have their liver checked before treatment starts. The experiment was taken using 2mgs per kilo (equating to 200mgs per 200lb human approx.)
Great post and we appreciate what you've done bro...I'm in the medical field as well and just common knowledge says that dnp would definitely not be good for the liver but it's always good to see things backed up with what you do...thanks again and keep putting out these educational post my man.
 
Frosty said:
Isn't like any OTC medicine hard on the liver?
Not to question anyone's credentials but highly toxic has absolutely no meaning in the abstract. Acetaminophen is a very mild (and useful) drug that is quite safe in virtually all people at doses up to 1g given four times a day (total dose 4g) over short periods (less than 5 days). Exceeding that dose overwelms the bodies stores of N-acetyl cysteine (which is one of the rate limiting steps in the production of glutathione. In fact, NAC is given as an antidote to acute acetaminophen ingestion. The point is that Tylenol is highly toxic once you reach a certain dose over a short enough time course or if it is consumed with something that CLEARLY compromises liver function (alcohol).

Real scientists would use the term HIGHLY TOXIC to reflect not only an agents potential effects but also the dose range (schedule) at which those effects are manifest. Accordingly DNP at 200mg over 7-10 days may be quite safe. DNP at double that dose may have a significant morbidity risk, while doubling that dose may elicit CERTAIN morbidity, while double that dose may lead to death. That's a question of therapeutic index which gives the notion of highly toxic context.

Not to disparage rat data (my bench research is in CNS pharm using primarily rats, mice, and monkey brains) but if rats were humans we would have cures for cancer. We don't because they aren't. Animal models are useful to the extent they approximate human behavior.

A free living human consuming an omnivore diet (high in antioxidants, for instance) has a dramatically different liver metabolic profile than one that's more carnivore and/or drinks alcohol. Even age makes a huge difference. You can almost dump Tylenol into children because they have a natural reservoir of hepatoprotective substrates. Naturally, this phenomenon was discovered by accident when someone bothered to notice that children with HUGE ingestions of Tylenol (200mg/kg+) often had no ill effects regardless of the timing or quality of poison control interventions. The determining factor in morbidity and mortality for children was often patient characteristics NOT the dose.

Now having said all of that . . . malaise, nausea/vomiting, and diaphoresis are incredibly nonspecific symptoms which means they could be caused by influenza, hyperglycemia, hypoglycemia, DNP reduction of oxidative phosphorylation, DNP-induced liver toxicity, OTC-induced liver toxicity, Rx-induced liver toxicity, alcohol-induced liver toxicity, or letter from the ex-wife's lawyer.

If you really feel bad (as opposed to uncomfortable) you should stop. DNP likely has a better therapeutic index than say insulin but most people have no business using that either.
 
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demeurj said:
Not to question anyone's credentials but highly toxic has absolutely no meaning in the abstract. Acetaminophen is a very mild (and useful) drug that is quite safe in virtually all people at doses up to 1g given four times a day (total dose 4g) over short periods (less than 5 days). Exceeding that dose overwelms the bodies stores of N-acetyl cysteine (which is one of the rate limiting steps in the production of glutathione. In fact, NAC is given as an antidote to acute acetaminophen ingestion. The point is that Tylenol is highly toxic once you reach a certain dose over a short enough time course or if it is consumed with something that CLEARLY compromises liver function (alcohol).

Real scientists would use the term HIGHLY TOXIC to reflect not only an agents potential effects but also the dose range (schedule) at which those effects are manifest. Accordingly DNP at 200mg over 7-10 days may be quite safe. DNP at double that dose may have a significant morbidity risk, while doubling that dose may elicit CERTAIN morbidity, while double that dose may lead to death. That's a question of therapeutic index which gives the notion of highly toxic context.

Not to disparage rat data (my bench research is in CNS pharm using primarily rats, mice, and monkey brains) but if rats were humans we would have cures for cancer. We don't because they aren't. Animal models are useful to the extent they approximate human behavior.

A free living human consuming an omnivore diet (high in antioxidants, for instance) has a dramatically different liver metabolic profile than one that's more carnivore and/or drinks alcohol. Even age makes a huge difference. You can almost dump Tylenol into children because they have a natural reservoir of hepatoprotective substrates. Naturally, this phenomenon was discovered by accident when someone bothered to notice that children with HUGE ingestions of Tylenol (200mg/kg+) often had no ill effects regardless of the timing or quality of poison control interventions. The determining factor in morbidity and mortality for children was often patient characteristics NOT the dose.

Now having said all of that . . . malaise, nausea/vomiting, and diaphoresis are incredibly nonspecific symptoms which means they could be caused by influenza, hyperglycemia, hypoglycemia, DNP reduction of oxidative phosphorylation, DNP-induced liver toxicity, OTC-induced liver toxicity, Rx-induced liver toxicity, alcohol-induced liver toxicity, or letter from the ex-wife's lawyer.

If you really feel bad (as opposed to uncomfortable) you should stop. DNP likely has a better therapeutic index than say insulin but most people have no business using that either.


I wasn't going to bother to reply to your statements, but now feel I should, firstly we have a hse handling list in the uk, and on that list dnp is listed as highly toxic on the same level as malachite green, its a handling list and isn't based solely on ppm ingested, it gives a magnitude of danger from handling that substance, many substances can be dangerous if ingested but not necessarily from sensible handling, but on the whole anything considered highly toxic is obviously highly toxic if ingested. To use your substances, insulin on the hse handling list is not classified as dangerous, I hope you have just missinterperated my wording.

I made it clear that the results I was summorising were from experiments with rats and not humans, if you are trying to tell me the basic biological principles don't also apply to humans, then I eagerly wait to see your documented evidence. I was making the point that dyes in general would greatly impare liver function, and to prove the point rather than quoting text book conjecture, I researched before making a statement. My only point was to ensure that no one was under the impression that dnp would not whilst being administered have no detrimental effect on ones own liver function as had been stated.

I don't want to expand this into an arguement, but your negative and pedantic statements don't help the constructive help I was trying to give.
 
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wow this thread got interesting while i was away :)

some questions i would like to pose are as follows:

1) given that DNP finds its way into ocular secretions, is it not reasonable to postulate that the sclera of the eye, or the conjunctiva has had some of the drug distributed into them, either intra or extracellularly?

2) given taht there are so many people willing to use DNP, is it not a reasonable idea to jsut get one of those persons exhibiting yellowing of the eyes to get a bilirubin level done and to end this?

3) is it safe to assume that any elevation in bilirubin is actually a manifestation of a compromised liver, and not in fact an increased level of bilirubin due to another aspect of bilirubin elimination?

4) in those individuals who exhibit yellowing of the eyes, when does it occur, and how long does it last? the reason i ask this is that i know someone who has used this drug and has had yellowed eyes, and he said that they were transient, lasted only a few hours, and were usually in the morning or after long stints in front of a computer- leading me to believe that it was likely a deposition of DNP on the sclera through ocular secretions and drying, rather than any elevation in bilirubin

i do not discount the toxicity of this drug, although i would think that its administration to more than 40000 people intraveinously in the 1980s by a doctor in america with a russian last name with no report of increased liver toxicity associated illenss/syndromes does seem to downplay the severity of any reactions to the drug

oh im a pharmacist by the way, this is an intersting discussion. although i share the sentiments of previous posters about rat data. i have done a few searches in medline etc on this agent and i have never seen evidence of liver dysfunction in low doses, new or old.

i have read a few toxicity reports on the agent and liver function was not listed as a sign of toxicity- rather it was heat, breathlessness, sweating etc etc. thats not to say that the liver is impervious to dnp caused harm, but still

anyway, ill check this thread someitme :)
 
There was a member here that did have bloodwork done pre and post-cycle, I think it was ironcowboy but I'm not too sure. He said they didn't find any abnormal values in over 40 different measurements, including kidneys and liver. I know a sample set of one does not a medical truth make, but it's the only person who's had testing done that I'm aware of and it came back positive.
I can also concurr with what Golden said about that doctor that was giving DNP IV as a medical treatment for fat loss, people complained of all the ususal DNP side effects (sweating, lethargy, nausea, rash) but there were no reports of liver or kidney problems.
I guess some of us need an actualy medical study to feel secure in this but all the anecdotal evidence I have seen indicates that this is simply not true, or at least not a great enough problem to cause any real risk.
Regards,
-H-
 
caffeine +/- green tea

genomics certainly looks promising
The process of switching off harmful genes could have applications for a number of diseases. But the researchers caution that results that show up in mice often don't apply to humans.
;)

I could go on for days from angiogenesis inhibitors to vaccines. But I was quoting Judah Folkman with regards to our "cures" for cancer . . . but only in mice. Human cancer has proven to be much tougher foe.

Now for what people really want to hear . . .
 
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