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My wife says when your eyes and skin turn yellow that's when you already have problems. I wouldn't use that as a sign. That's why we get bloodwork doneres said:i have had two people come up to me at work and say that my eyes and skin were yellow. said it looked like i had jaundice. anyone know if that is normal?
Well,that sounds much better.Your Endo said:Wait the hell a minute.... where did you guys get liver damage from??
DNP is a yellow powder that stains anything it touches yellow (including the skin) DNP is in his blood so DNP could easily 'stain' his eyes yellow... am I missing something? -Your Endo
Frosty said:Isn't like any OTC medicine hard on the liver?
It's classified as a toxin because it's toxic....nobody said it was cyanide....people have known this is a dangerous drug for a long time....well hell it really should'nt be classified as a drug, don't they use the shit in making dynamite...but anyway...it has'nt hurt the sale of the product but people should know....regardless, if they are jaundiced, stop taking WHATEVER the hell your taking. Liver damage is not the worst thing that can happen if you don't know what you're doing or you don't recognize certain signs.Heretic said:Also, DNP is classified as a "toxin" because it causes sweating, nausea, and weight loss, and in a high enough dose can be fatal. It's not because it's cyanide or something.
Regards,
-H-
Heretic said:http://www.boehringer-ingelheim.es/...glesa/cap13.htm finds that DNP did not activate liver enzymes (MAT) associated with liver damage
As I'm sure you know elevated liver enzymes do not necessarily mean damage. You have to look at which enzymes are elevated, as only a certain type indicate liver damage, and you neglected to say which values were.
Also, there has been a member of this board who had bloodwork done before and after a DNP cycle and had no serious change in over 40 different measures, including liver values.
This guy does not have jaundice because DNP is wrecking havoc on his liver. I also don't understand your reference to insects, are you saying DNP kills them through liver damage? You're saying that they die because cells are not being regenerated, but you don't clearly mention how.
If anyone is that concerned then get bloodwork done (as we all do already anyway......right?). I highly doubt you'll see anything dramatic due to the DNP.
Regards,
-H-
Would like to see that....the liver is very resiliant and can regenerate to a degree and the cells are very useful. If you find it post it up bro.MANWHORE said:I wouldn't take a chance with my liver. Alot of people think it can regenerate its cells,but,from what i hear,the regenerated cells are usless,because they aren't in the right sequence. I don't remember what board that article was on,so i can't post it,Unless i have it. let me check.
dammit,now your going to make me search for itSouthernjuice said:Would like to see that....the liver is very resiliant and can regenerate to a degree and the cells are very useful. If you find it post it up bro.
MANWHORE said:I wouldn't take a chance with my liver. Alot of people think it can regenerate its cells,but,from what i hear,the regenerated cells are usless,because they aren't in the right sequence. I don't remember what board that article was on,so i can't post it,Unless i have it. let me check.
Great post and we appreciate what you've done bro...I'm in the medical field as well and just common knowledge says that dnp would definitely not be good for the liver but it's always good to see things backed up with what you do...thanks again and keep putting out these educational post my man.GRANVILLE said:Ok so here are the day 5 results from feeding 15 rats dnp, I make this clear from the beginning this is purely out of scientific interest, being a research scientist I have learnt to disregard any research documented by any bodies involved with the substance tested. All rats have continued with very high total liver values, the amount going up every day. The rats where going to be used for tests using nsaids, and for reasons beyond my control had all been previously fed high carb food (pasta) for the experiments. I injected 2 of the rats with pain killer at the very high dose the others had received for the other experiment, as there were documented clearance times for those rats. 8 hours later the dnp fed rats had shown no reduction in nsaid level except half life expected lowering, in the other rats, nsaid levels dropped 85% in 4 hours, having been nutralised by the animals liver. This would further qualify my observations that dnp whilst being ingested WILL compromise liver function. Once again this is not scaremongering, but just a warning not to accept things on face value, and obviously just to say it would be unsafe to consume alcohol or any other substance requiring liver neutralising whilst on dnp (just common sense really !!!). I appreciate this isn't exact science, and the subjects were rats not humans, but knowing how dyes function, I could not accept statements saying the liver is not compromised whilst taking dnp, I'm sure once dnp clears the system everything will return to normal, bottom line imo anyone considering using dnp should have their liver checked before treatment starts. The experiment was taken using 2mgs per kilo (equating to 200mgs per 200lb human approx.)
Not to question anyone's credentials but highly toxic has absolutely no meaning in the abstract. Acetaminophen is a very mild (and useful) drug that is quite safe in virtually all people at doses up to 1g given four times a day (total dose 4g) over short periods (less than 5 days). Exceeding that dose overwelms the bodies stores of N-acetyl cysteine (which is one of the rate limiting steps in the production of glutathione. In fact, NAC is given as an antidote to acute acetaminophen ingestion. The point is that Tylenol is highly toxic once you reach a certain dose over a short enough time course or if it is consumed with something that CLEARLY compromises liver function (alcohol).Frosty said:Isn't like any OTC medicine hard on the liver?
demeurj said:Not to question anyone's credentials but highly toxic has absolutely no meaning in the abstract. Acetaminophen is a very mild (and useful) drug that is quite safe in virtually all people at doses up to 1g given four times a day (total dose 4g) over short periods (less than 5 days). Exceeding that dose overwelms the bodies stores of N-acetyl cysteine (which is one of the rate limiting steps in the production of glutathione. In fact, NAC is given as an antidote to acute acetaminophen ingestion. The point is that Tylenol is highly toxic once you reach a certain dose over a short enough time course or if it is consumed with something that CLEARLY compromises liver function (alcohol).
Real scientists would use the term HIGHLY TOXIC to reflect not only an agents potential effects but also the dose range (schedule) at which those effects are manifest. Accordingly DNP at 200mg over 7-10 days may be quite safe. DNP at double that dose may have a significant morbidity risk, while doubling that dose may elicit CERTAIN morbidity, while double that dose may lead to death. That's a question of therapeutic index which gives the notion of highly toxic context.
Not to disparage rat data (my bench research is in CNS pharm using primarily rats, mice, and monkey brains) but if rats were humans we would have cures for cancer. We don't because they aren't. Animal models are useful to the extent they approximate human behavior.
A free living human consuming an omnivore diet (high in antioxidants, for instance) has a dramatically different liver metabolic profile than one that's more carnivore and/or drinks alcohol. Even age makes a huge difference. You can almost dump Tylenol into children because they have a natural reservoir of hepatoprotective substrates. Naturally, this phenomenon was discovered by accident when someone bothered to notice that children with HUGE ingestions of Tylenol (200mg/kg+) often had no ill effects regardless of the timing or quality of poison control interventions. The determining factor in morbidity and mortality for children was often patient characteristics NOT the dose.
Now having said all of that . . . malaise, nausea/vomiting, and diaphoresis are incredibly nonspecific symptoms which means they could be caused by influenza, hyperglycemia, hypoglycemia, DNP reduction of oxidative phosphorylation, DNP-induced liver toxicity, OTC-induced liver toxicity, Rx-induced liver toxicity, alcohol-induced liver toxicity, or letter from the ex-wife's lawyer.
If you really feel bad (as opposed to uncomfortable) you should stop. DNP likely has a better therapeutic index than say insulin but most people have no business using that either.
The process of switching off harmful genes could have applications for a number of diseases. But the researchers caution that results that show up in mice often don't apply to humans.