A HOW TO for: SERMs, Aromatize inhibitors, Gyno and PCT

Re: A HOW TO for: SERMs, Aromatize inhibitors, Gyno and PCT *A must read

DR Scally show me gyno in the absence of elevated estrogen as a common occurrence on cycle - and we will talk.
This is silly - your witch hunt on the OP in now skewing fact and reality. I expect more. Seriously.

As has already been stated, the precise mechanism for gyno is unknown. That said, the castle analogy put this entire debate in prospective. I really don't understand why this is still being discussed.



J Clin Oncol. 2005 Feb 1;23(4):808-15.
Evaluation of tamoxifen and anastrozole in the prevention of gynecomastia and breast pain induced by bicalutamide monotherapy of prostate cancer.
Boccardo F, Rubagotti A, Battaglia M, Di Tonno P, Selvaggi FP, Conti G, Comeri G, Bertaccini A, Martorana G, Galassi P, Zattoni F, Macchiarella A, Siragusa A, Muscas G, Durand F, Potenzoni D, Manganelli A, Ferraris V, Montefiore F.
Source


Abstract
PURPOSE:

To determine whether tamoxifen or anastrozole prevents gynecomastia and breast pain caused by bicalutamide (150 mg) without compromising efficacy, safety, or sexual functioning.
PATIENTS AND METHODS:

A double-blind, placebo-controlled trial was performed in patients with localized, locally advanced, or biochemically recurrent prostate cancer. Patients (N = 114) were randomly assigned to either bicalutamide (150 mg/d) plus placebo or in combination with tamoxifen (20 mg/d) or anastrozole (1 mg/d) for 48 weeks. Gynecomastia, breast pain, prostate-specific antigen (PSA), sexual functioning, and serum levels of hormones were assessed.
RESULTS:

Gynecomastia developed in 73% of patients in the bicalutamide group, 10% of patients in the bicalutamide-tamoxifen group, and 51% of patients in the bicalutamide-anastrozole group (P < .001); breast pain developed in 39%, 6%, and 27% of patients, respectively (P = .006). Baseline PSA level decreased by > or = 50% in 97%, 97%, and 83% of patients in the bicalutamide, bicalutamide-tamoxifen, and bicalutamide-anastrozole groups, respectively (P = .07); and adverse events were reported in 37%, 35%, and 69% of patients, respectively (P = .004). There were no major differences among treatments in sexual functioning parameters from baseline to month 6. Elevated testosterone levels occurred in each group; however, free testosterone levels remained unchanged in the bicalutamide-tamoxifen group because of increased sex hormone-binding globulin levels.
CONCLUSION:

Anastrozole did not significantly reduce the incidence of bicalutamide-induced gynecomastia and breast pain. In contrast, tamoxifen was effective, without increasing adverse events, at least in the short-term follow-up. These data support the need for a larger study to determine any effect on mortality.


Prostate Cancer Prostatic Dis. 2005;8(1):75-83.
Prevention and management of bicalutamide-induced gynecomastia and breast pain: randomized endocrinologic and clinical studies with tamoxifen and anastrozole.
Saltzstein D, Sieber P, Morris T, Gallo J.

Abstract

A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled multicenter trial involving 107 men receiving bicalutamide ('Casodex') 150 mg/day therapy following radical therapy for prostate cancer assessed tamoxifen ('Nolvadex') 20 mg/day and anastrozole ('Arimidex') 1 mg/day for the prophylaxis and treatment of gynecomastia/breast pain. Tamoxifen, but not anastrozole, significantly reduced the incidence of gynecomastia/breast pain when used prophylactically and therapeutically. Serum testosterone levels increased with tamoxifen relative to placebo but prostate-specific antigen levels declined in all treatment groups. Further studies are needed to define the optimum tamoxifen dose and to assess any impact on cancer control. The use of tamoxifen in this setting remains to be investigated.



Expert Rev Anticancer Ther. 2007 Dec;7(12):1773-9.
Treatment of bicalutamide-induced breast events.
Sieber PR.

Abstract

Bicalutamide is a competitive nonsteroidal androgen receptor antagonist. In the European Union and a number of other countries, bicalutamide 150 mg per day is approved as an adjuvant to primary treatments (radical prostatectomy or radiotherapy) or as monotherapy as an alternative to surgical or medical castration in men with locally advanced, nonmetastatic prostate cancer. The ongoing bicalutamide Early Prostate Cancer (EPC) program has shown that breast events, defined as gynecomastia, breast pain or both, are a significant limitation of bicalutamide. Nearly 90% of patients experienced one or both symptoms and nearly 16% of patients withdrew from the EPC program as a consequence of bicalutamide-induced breast events. Tamoxifen, anastrozole and radiotherapy have all been studied as options for the treatment of breast events. To date, tamoxifen appears to be the superior agent in terms of outcomes; however, further studies are still required to determine the optimal dose and timing of tamoxifen administration for both prophylaxis and treatment. In addition, the impact on prostate cancer control remains uncertain. An ongoing clinical trial using toremifene to prevent morphometric vertebral fractures in men undergoing medical and/or surgical castration will provide some additional data on the effects of selective estrogen receptor modulators in men with prostate cancer.
 
Re: A HOW TO for: SERMs, Aromatize inhibitors, Gyno and PCT *A must read

What happens when someone taking an AI on-cycle still has a problem with gyno?

I think this is the ultimate question Millard. I believe this is what Doc and CBS is trying to convey, a SERM like Nolvadex is far superior for treating gyno.

I really don't get why this is such a hard concept to grasp.

mands
 
Re: A HOW TO for: SERMs, Aromatize inhibitors, Gyno and PCT *A must read

I just finished protrate cancer treatments,i was on ADT which completely shut down my test production to shrink my prostrate for radiation implants and then later on radiation treatment. While on the ADT treatment i developed gyno,worse than any time i did while on AAS. I told the doctor about it and he wasnt concerned enough to give me anything for it. Now that im done with the treatments i started taking 10mg Nolvadex and 25mg Clomid ED to treat it,I am doing this on my own. Not sure why i developed gyno since i had no test to convert to estrogen......
 
Re: A HOW TO for: SERMs, Aromatize inhibitors, Gyno and PCT *A must read

I just finished protrate cancer treatments,i was on ADT which completely shut down my test production to shrink my prostrate for radiation implants and then later on radiation treatment. While on the ADT treatment i developed gyno,worse than any time i did while on AAS. I told the doctor about it and he wasnt concerned enough to give me anything for it. Now that im done with the treatments i started taking 10mg Nolvadex and 25mg Clomid ED to treat it,I am doing this on my own. Not sure why i developed gyno since i had no test to convert to estrogen......


I am really happy at your progress. Please keep us updated. IMO, stop the clomiphene, but continue the Tamoxifen at 20 MG. [In your case, treatment was with a GnRH agonist, correct? Did you have T & E2 levels?]


Viani GA, Bernardes da Silva LG, Stefano EJ. Prevention of gynecomastia and breast pain caused by androgen deprivation therapy in prostate cancer: tamoxifen or radiotherapy? Int J Radiat Oncol Biol Phys 2012;83(4):e519-24. http://www.redjournal.org/article/S0360-3016(12)00080-6/abstract (Elsevier)

PURPOSE: To determine, in a meta-analysis, whether gynecomastia and breast pain rates in men with prostate cancer treated with androgen deprivation therapy (ADT) are reduced if treated with prophylactic radiotherapy (RT) or tamoxifen (TMX).

METHODS AND MATERIALS: The MEDLINE, EMBASE, CANCERLIT, and Cochrane Library databases, as well as proceedings of annual meetings, were systematically searched to identify randomized, controlled studies comparing RT or TMX with observation for men with prostate cancer using ADT.

RESULTS: Six RCTs (three RT trials and three TMX trials, N = 777 patients total) were identified that met the study criteria. Pooled results from these RCTs comparing RT vs. observation showed a significant reduction in the incidence of gynecomastia and breast pain rates in patients treated with RT (odds ratio [OR] = 0.21, 95% confidence interval [CI] = 0.12-0.37, p < 0.0001, and OR = 0.34, 95% CI 0.20-0.57, p < 0.0001, respectively). Use of RT resulted in an absolute risk reduction (ARR) of 29.4% and 19.9%, with a number needed to treat (NNT) of 3.4 and 5 to avoid one case of gynecomastia and breast pain, respectively. Pooled results from trials comparing TMX vs. observation showed a statistical benefit for breast pain and gynecomastia in favor of TMX arms (OR = 0.04, 95% CI = 0.02-0.08, p < 0.0001 and OR = 0.07, 95% CI = 0.0-0.14, p < 0.00001). TMX resulted in an ARR = 64.1% and 47.6%, with an NNT of 1.56 and 2.1 to avoid one case of gynecomastia and breast pain, respectively. Considering adverse effects, TMX was 6 times more adverse effects than RT.

CONCLUSIONS: Our data have shown that both TMX and RT prevented gynecomastia and breast pain in patients with prostate cancer receiving ADT for prostate cancer. Although TMX was two times more effective in preventing gynecomastia, RT should represent an effective and safe treatment option, to take into account mainly in patients with cardiovascular risk factors or thrombotic diathesis.
 
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Re: A HOW TO for: SERMs, Aromatize inhibitors, Gyno and PCT *A must read

Here is another way of looking at things: AIs' are hammers that completely destroy estrogen. So, large amounts will fend off gyno....but also lower estro way too much. You will have erectile problems, sore joints etc.

On the other hand, nolva is more of a surgical knife, directly displacing estro at the breast, while not driving estro too low. nolva is not like a surgical knif, it it like a bandaid...leaving high estro from cycle to do your body harm like edema and high PB along with others?...

Here is another analogy. Lets say your house is on fire. If we put a giant cup (read AI) over your house, the fire would go out due to no oxygen. Of course you and your family would also die. DUDE thats just silly to explain like that, ok how about this: you have a gas leak in the house and instead of fixing the gas leak, you just get your family a bunch of breathing masks....

I use letro on cycle and have for very long cycles at a low dose with NO ED issues EVER or hurting joints from low E or crashing my estrogen.
Just because you take an AI doesn't mean you will crash the levels. its not that simple.
I am using letro now and have been for about 3mo now.
 
Re: A HOW TO for: SERMs, Aromatize inhibitors, Gyno and PCT *A must read

CONCLUSIONS: Our data have shown that both TMX and RT prevented gynecomastia and breast pain in patients with prostate cancer receiving ADT for prostate cancer. Although TMX was two times more effective in preventing gynecomastia, RT should represent an effective and safe treatment option, to take into account mainly in patients with cardiovascular risk factors or thrombotic diathesis.

again not our community and again I never said a SERM would not block gyno, but again... not optimal and not addressing the issues of being on high androgenic aas cycles...... in our community for people on cycle.

I have read studies like this and take that into consideration, then let my mind work to make use of of studies... your view is very narrow.
 
Re: A HOW TO for: SERMs, Aromatize inhibitors, Gyno and PCT *A must read

I just finished protrate cancer treatments,i was on ADT which completely shut down my test production to shrink my prostrate for radiation implants and then later on radiation treatment. While on the ADT treatment i developed gyno,worse than any time i did while on AAS. I told the doctor about it and he wasnt concerned enough to give me anything for it. Now that im done with the treatments i started taking 10mg Nolvadex and 25mg Clomid ED to treat it,I am doing this on my own. Not sure why i developed gyno since i had no test to convert to estrogen......

There is sides with drugs used in prostate cancer treatment and gyno development is known to be an issue to many with prostate issues. This is not the setting my WU is for, it is not for post cancer treatment it is for aas using people and preventing gyno from cycles not all cancer treatment protocols that are out there. there are many hormones and drugs that can play a role in the development of Gyno and is what most studies are done on. (and why Scally seems to only see one side i think)
I wish you the best man!
 
Re: A HOW TO for: SERMs, Aromatize inhibitors, Gyno and PCT *A must read

I think this is the ultimate question Millard. I believe this is what Doc and CBS is trying to convey, a SERM like Nolvadex is far superior for treating gyno.

I really don't get why this is such a hard concept to grasp.

mands

then looking at prog and other factors is the next step along with checking E levels through blood work.

nothing hard to grasp.... about ignoring high e levels from cycles and treating it with something that does not fix that but rather blocks the estrogen but leaving it to grow in the body.

This WU was not for cancer it is for aas users....
 
Re: A HOW TO for: SERMs, Aromatize inhibitors, Gyno and PCT *A must read

As has already been stated, the precise mechanism for gyno is unknown. That said, the castle analogy put this entire debate in prospective. I really don't understand why this is still being discussed.



J Clin Oncol. 2005 Feb 1;23(4):808-15.
Evaluation of tamoxifen and anastrozole in the prevention of gynecomastia and breast pain induced by bicalutamide monotherapy of prostate cancer.
Boccardo F, Rubagotti A, Battaglia M, Di Tonno P, Selvaggi FP, Conti G, Comeri G, Bertaccini A, Martorana G, Galassi P, Zattoni F, Macchiarella A, Siragusa A, Muscas G, Durand F, Potenzoni D, Manganelli A, Ferraris V, Montefiore F.
Source


Abstract
PURPOSE:

To determine whether tamoxifen or anastrozole prevents gynecomastia and breast pain caused by bicalutamide (150 mg) without compromising efficacy, safety, or sexual functioning.
PATIENTS AND METHODS:

A double-blind, placebo-controlled trial was performed in patients with localized, locally advanced, or biochemically recurrent prostate cancer. Patients (N = 114) were randomly assigned to either bicalutamide (150 mg/d) plus placebo or in combination with tamoxifen (20 mg/d) or anastrozole (1 mg/d) for 48 weeks. Gynecomastia, breast pain, prostate-specific antigen (PSA), sexual functioning, and serum levels of hormones were assessed.
RESULTS:

Gynecomastia developed in 73% of patients in the bicalutamide group, 10% of patients in the bicalutamide-tamoxifen group, and 51% of patients in the bicalutamide-anastrozole group (P < .001); breast pain developed in 39%, 6%, and 27% of patients, respectively (P = .006). Baseline PSA level decreased by > or = 50% in 97%, 97%, and 83% of patients in the bicalutamide, bicalutamide-tamoxifen, and bicalutamide-anastrozole groups, respectively (P = .07); and adverse events were reported in 37%, 35%, and 69% of patients, respectively (P = .004). There were no major differences among treatments in sexual functioning parameters from baseline to month 6. Elevated testosterone levels occurred in each group; however, free testosterone levels remained unchanged in the bicalutamide-tamoxifen group because of increased sex hormone-binding globulin levels.
CONCLUSION:

Anastrozole did not significantly reduce the incidence of bicalutamide-induced gynecomastia and breast pain. In contrast, tamoxifen was effective, without increasing adverse events, at least in the short-term follow-up. These data support the need for a larger study to determine any effect on mortality.


Prostate Cancer Prostatic Dis. 2005;8(1):75-83.
Prevention and management of bicalutamide-induced gynecomastia and breast pain: randomized endocrinologic and clinical studies with tamoxifen and anastrozole.
Saltzstein D, Sieber P, Morris T, Gallo J.

Abstract

A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled multicenter trial involving 107 men receiving bicalutamide ('Casodex') 150 mg/day therapy following radical therapy for prostate cancer assessed tamoxifen ('Nolvadex') 20 mg/day and anastrozole ('Arimidex') 1 mg/day for the prophylaxis and treatment of gynecomastia/breast pain. Tamoxifen, but not anastrozole, significantly reduced the incidence of gynecomastia/breast pain when used prophylactically and therapeutically. Serum testosterone levels increased with tamoxifen relative to placebo but prostate-specific antigen levels declined in all treatment groups. Further studies are needed to define the optimum tamoxifen dose and to assess any impact on cancer control. The use of tamoxifen in this setting remains to be investigated.



Expert Rev Anticancer Ther. 2007 Dec;7(12):1773-9.
Treatment of bicalutamide-induced breast events.
Sieber PR.

Abstract

Bicalutamide is a competitive nonsteroidal androgen receptor antagonist. In the European Union and a number of other countries, bicalutamide 150 mg per day is approved as an adjuvant to primary treatments (radical prostatectomy or radiotherapy) or as monotherapy as an alternative to surgical or medical castration in men with locally advanced, nonmetastatic prostate cancer. The ongoing bicalutamide Early Prostate Cancer (EPC) program has shown that breast events, defined as gynecomastia, breast pain or both, are a significant limitation of bicalutamide. Nearly 90% of patients experienced one or both symptoms and nearly 16% of patients withdrew from the EPC program as a consequence of bicalutamide-induced breast events. Tamoxifen, anastrozole and radiotherapy have all been studied as options for the treatment of breast events. To date, tamoxifen appears to be the superior agent in terms of outcomes; however, further studies are still required to determine the optimal dose and timing of tamoxifen administration for both prophylaxis and treatment. In addition, the impact on prostate cancer control remains uncertain. An ongoing clinical trial using toremifene to prevent morphometric vertebral fractures in men undergoing medical and/or surgical castration will provide some additional data on the effects of selective estrogen receptor modulators in men with prostate cancer.
Again cancer treatment has its own effect and I have seen and KNOW there can be other factors for gyno.
I am not writing to cancer people or people off cycle with gyno....
 
Re: A HOW TO for: SERMs, Aromatize inhibitors, Gyno and PCT *A must read

If anyone needs help and thinks I can help, PM me... I might not post in this thread again...

Enjoy
 
Re: A HOW TO for: SERMs, Aromatize inhibitors, Gyno and PCT *A must read

nolva is not like a surgical knif, it it like a bandaid...leaving high estro from cycle to do your body harm like edema and high PB along with others?...


Someone is losing it! The thread by your own posts and admission is about gynecomastia (& PCT), NOT edema or PB. Is PB supposed to be Blood Pressure (BP)! On that point, what evidence is that E2 is the cause for BP problems? The evidence is that BP problems are not caused by E2. In fact, lowering E2 more often does not control BP (or PB). BP control requires other measures. Why?
 
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Re: A HOW TO for: SERMs, Aromatize inhibitors, Gyno and PCT *A must read

Someone is losing it! The thread by your own posts and admission is about gynecomastia (& PCT), NOT edema or PB. Is PB supposed to be Blood Pressure (BP)! On that point, what evidence is that E2 is the cause for BP problems? The evidence is that BP problems are not caused by E2. In fact, lowering E2 more often does not control BP (or PB). BP control requires other measures. Why?

edema/bloat can cause BP issues in people holding alot of water on cycle, an issue with high androgens for some, for those an AI would help BP if that's the only contributing factor......

Keep going man... keep going....
 
Re: A HOW TO for: SERMs, Aromatize inhibitors, Gyno and PCT *A must read

edema/bloat can cause BP issues in people holding alot of water on cycle, an issue with high androgens for some, for those an AI would help BP if that's the only contributing factor......

Keep going man... keep going....

I am going. It is hard to keep up with your changing position and FOS posts (more on those later). So, you are stating the belief that E2 is the cause for BP problems based on your bloat theory, correct? And, an AI fixes the BP by lowering E2, correct? What accounts for BP problems in a cycle with non-aromatizable AAS? Or do you think this does not occur?
 
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Re: A HOW TO for: SERMs, Aromatize inhibitors, Gyno and PCT *A must read

I think this is the ultimate question Millard. I believe this is what Doc and CBS is trying to convey, a SERM like Nolvadex is far superior for treating gyno.

I really don't get why this is such a hard concept to grasp.

mands

I don't know if the confusion between treating gyno and managing E2 is intentional or not. But it's not really helping understanding of the issues at play.

AIs can be useful at managing E2 during AAS cycles and may minimize likelihood of gyno. But that doesn't mean SERMs aren't best treatment option for preventing gyno. It certainly doesn't mean AIs are better than SERMs in this regard.

And just because SERMs are the best treatment option for gyno doesn't mean they should be used manage E2.

It doesn't mean that management of E2 is not important either.

Take home lesson: Manage E2 on cycle. If you're predisposed and/or have problems w/ gyno, be certain to have the treatment of choice on hand.
 
Re: A HOW TO for: SERMs, Aromatize inhibitors, Gyno and PCT *A must read

I don't know if the confusion between treating gyno and managing E2 is intentional or not. But it's not really helping understanding of the issues at play.

AIs can be useful at managing E2 during AAS cycles and may minimize likelihood of gyno. But that doesn't mean SERMs aren't best treatment option for preventing gyno. It certainly doesn't mean AIs are better than SERMs in this regard.

And just because SERMs are the best treatment option for gyno doesn't mean they should be used manage E2.

It doesn't mean that management of E2 is not important either.

Take home lesson: Manage E2 on cycle. If you're predisposed and/or have problems w/ gyno, be certain to have the treatment of choice on hand.


You tried once put the thread in perspective, but the OP made mincemeat out of your effort. He went so far as to admit that AI > SERM for gynecomastia. The thread is not about E2 control, but now in his vain attempts to save face he introduces BP and edema into the thread. Offhand, what do you guess "serious" BB incorporate into a cycle? Would they follow the OP by not using a SERM OR incorporate an AI & SERM since they realize to prevent gynecomastia a SERM is required.
 
Re: A HOW TO for: SERMs, Aromatize inhibitors, Gyno and PCT *A must read

You tried once put the thread in perspective, but the OP made mincemeat out of your effort. He went so far as to admit that AI > SERM for gynecomastia. The thread is not about E2 control, but now in his vain attempts to save face he introduces BP and edema into the thread. Offhand, what do you guess "serious" BB incorporate into a cycle? Would they follow the OP by not using a SERM OR incorporate an AI & SERM since they realize to prevent gynecomastia a SERM is required.

This is precisely where the important teaching point comes in. Those bb'ers who using very high amounts of aromatizable AAS are more likely to require AI + SERM.

This is why understanding which - AI or SERM - is best at preventing gyno is important.

Not best at E2 control.

Not best reducing aromatization.

But best at stopping gyno.

I hope whoever reads this thread, the important thing is to always have SERMs on hand if gyno could be an issue regardless whether you are managing E2 via AIs or not.
 
Re: A HOW TO for: SERMs, Aromatize inhibitors, Gyno and PCT *A must read

This is precisely where the important teaching point comes in. Those bb'ers who using very high amounts of aromatizable AAS are more likely to require AI + SERM.

This is why understanding which - AI or SERM - is best at preventing gyno is important.

Not best at E2 control.

Not best reducing aromatization.

But best at stopping gyno.

I hope whoever reads this thread, the important thing is to always have SERMs on hand if gyno could be an issue regardless whether you are managing E2 via AIs or not.

I found the following by a BB named Paul Borrenson who I understand to have been a very serious BB. The article describes his program that uses "15 - 30 day cycles with doses 1,000 mg a day." This is massive doses, but as one can read so are his AI doses. He does not leave it at this, but includes a SERM, which is the one and only way to optimally minimize gynecomastia. There could be no other reason except gynecomastia. I do not think for a minute he would omit the SERM even in light of a huge AI dose. And, if you extrapolate the AI dose to 500 MG, the AI dose is Arimidex 2 MG. It might be overboard, but if you are looking to control E2, it is better to be low than high!

Article by Paul Borrenson
I propose 15 - 30 day cycles with doses 1,000 mg a day.

EACH DAY:
40mg Tamoxifen
Armidex 2 times 2mg per day [4 MG]

http://www.anabolicextreme.com/anabolic/archives/anex_archives_issue7_evilmendo.htm (anabolic extreme archives issue #2 dnp and insulin 2) / https://thinksteroids.com/community/posts/455548


FWIW: The maximum AAS used by a patient of mine was 3.5 G/Week on a consistent basis. Obviously, he never was "off."
 
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Re: A HOW TO for: SERMs, Aromatize inhibitors, Gyno and PCT *A must read

I am really happy at your progress. Please keep us updated. IMO, stop the clomiphene, but continue the Tamoxifen at 20 MG. [In your case, treatment was with a GnRH agonist, correct? Did you have T & E2 levels?]


Viani GA, Bernardes da Silva LG, Stefano EJ. Prevention of gynecomastia and breast pain caused by androgen deprivation therapy in prostate cancer: tamoxifen or radiotherapy? Int J Radiat Oncol Biol Phys 2012;83(4):e519-24. http://www.redjournal.org/article/S0360-3016(12)00080-6/abstract (Elsevier)

PURPOSE: To determine, in a meta-analysis, whether gynecomastia and breast pain rates in men with prostate cancer treated with androgen deprivation therapy (ADT) are reduced if treated with prophylactic radiotherapy (RT) or tamoxifen (TMX).

METHODS AND MATERIALS: The MEDLINE, EMBASE, CANCERLIT, and Cochrane Library databases, as well as proceedings of annual meetings, were systematically searched to identify randomized, controlled studies comparing RT or TMX with observation for men with prostate cancer using ADT.

RESULTS: Six RCTs (three RT trials and three TMX trials, N = 777 patients total) were identified that met the study criteria. Pooled results from these RCTs comparing RT vs. observation showed a significant reduction in the incidence of gynecomastia and breast pain rates in patients treated with RT (odds ratio [OR] = 0.21, 95% confidence interval [CI] = 0.12-0.37, p < 0.0001, and OR = 0.34, 95% CI 0.20-0.57, p < 0.0001, respectively). Use of RT resulted in an absolute risk reduction (ARR) of 29.4% and 19.9%, with a number needed to treat (NNT) of 3.4 and 5 to avoid one case of gynecomastia and breast pain, respectively. Pooled results from trials comparing TMX vs. observation showed a statistical benefit for breast pain and gynecomastia in favor of TMX arms (OR = 0.04, 95% CI = 0.02-0.08, p < 0.0001 and OR = 0.07, 95% CI = 0.0-0.14, p < 0.00001). TMX resulted in an ARR = 64.1% and 47.6%, with an NNT of 1.56 and 2.1 to avoid one case of gynecomastia and breast pain, respectively. Considering adverse effects, TMX was 6 times more adverse effects than RT.

CONCLUSIONS: Our data have shown that both TMX and RT prevented gynecomastia and breast pain in patients with prostate cancer receiving ADT for prostate cancer. Although TMX was two times more effective in preventing gynecomastia, RT should represent an effective and safe treatment option, to take into account mainly in patients with cardiovascular risk factors or thrombotic diathesis.

Yes they used Eligard which is a GnRH agonist,which i was on for 7 months.They never did test for Test or E2 levels,but i know i had no testerone in my system,i think there is another gland that produces E2 besides increases from test conversion.My breast never got sore but they are swelled up and soft so i want to take of this now. I will stop the Clomid and increase the Nolvadex to 20mg ED.
 
Re: A HOW TO for: SERMs, Aromatize inhibitors, Gyno and PCT *A must read

Excellent discussion Millard, DOC and Meso members.

Controversies aside, (no aspect of medicine would be true to it's colors without some form of disagreement IMO) this is how folks learn HOPEFULLY!
Jim
 
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