Anabolic Steroids & Liver [GI]

Silymarin, milk thistle extract, at about 1000 mg/day, may not do much in tests, but so many have claimed it does I continue to use it twice a day. I used to have a liver that did not filter well during cycles (sometimes dangerously so) but now works just fine. Connection? I don't know. But why change a good thing?

Solo
 
Seriously. I have nothing to contribute to the discussion.. but all I have to say that this forum has the most educated members I have ever seen. I might not be many years into the AAS game.. but damn at least in this forum my BS alarm doesent go off (at least not very often ;)).
 
Navarro VJ, Barnhart H, Bonkovsky HL, et al. Liver injury from herbals and dietary supplements in the U.S. Drug-Induced Liver Injury Network. Hepatology. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/hep.27317/abstract

The Drug-Induced Liver Injury Network (DILIN) studies hepatotoxicity caused by conventional medications as well as herbals and dietary supplements (HDS). To characterize hepatotoxicity and its outcomes from HDS versus medications, patients with hepatotoxicity attributed to medications or HDS were enrolled prospectively between 2004 and 2013. The study took place among eight U.S. referral centers that are part of the DILIN. Consecutive patients with liver injury referred to a DILIN center were eligible.

The final sample comprised 130 (15.5%) of all subjects enrolled (839) who were judged to have experienced liver injury caused by HDS. Hepatotoxicity caused by HDS was evaluated by expert opinion. Demographic and clinical characteristics and outcome assessments, including death and liver transplantation (LT), were ascertained.

Cases were stratified and compared according to the type of agent implicated in liver injury; 45 had injury caused by bodybuilding HDS, 85 by nonbodybuilding HDS, and 709 by medications. Liver injury caused by HDS increased from 7% to 20% (P < 0.001) during the study period.

Bodybuilding HDS caused prolonged jaundice (median, 91 days) in young men, but did not result in any fatalities or LT. The remaining HDS cases presented as hepatocellular injury, predominantly in middle-aged women, and, more frequently, led to death or transplantation, compared to injury from medications (13% vs. 3%; P < 0.05).

Conclusions: The proportion of liver injury cases attributed to HDS in DILIN has increased significantly. Liver injury from nonbodybuilding HDS is more severe than from bodybuilding HDS or medications, as evidenced by differences in unfavorable outcomes (death and transplantation).

You only need to look at where the grants came from for this study to understand the results:
"Potential conflict of interest: Dr. Bonkovsky consults, advises, and received grants from Clinuvel. He consults and advises Alnylam and Recordati. He received grants from Vertex. Dr. Fontana consults for GlaxoSmithKline and received grants from Bristol-Myers Squibb, Gilead, Janssen, and Vertex. Dr. Reddy advises and received grants from Merck, Gilead, AbbVie, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Vertex, and Janssen. He advises Genentech-Roche and received grants from Genfit."
 
Sorry fella but I've backed up my statement in the dearth of evidence supporting the lack of efficacy for using pharmaceutical grade medications for hepatic prophylaxis of AAS toxicity many times AND NONE EXISTS.

Simply put although a few may improve LFTs they do not alter OUTCOME. Perhaps thats why none are used in the medical arena for drug induced hepatic toxicity excepting specific antidotes such as NAC

So why should anyone believe some supplement concoction called "Liver 52" will fare any better? They shouldn't and that's exactly why this junk is WORTHLESS.

Heck there is not even a case repot any of this junk PREVENTS hepatic injury, not ONE!
 
. Perhaps thats why none are used in the medical arena for drug induced hepatic toxicity excepting specific antidotes such as NAC
Jim,
We know better than that, now don't we. Big Pharma would never late little companies come in and start milking from their cash cows. NEVER! Like the study above, all involved were financed (I'm being nice) by Big Pharma. You, myself and most other people on this forum are not that naive to believe any study back by BIG PHARMA is truly unbiased, right?

I wouldn't believe a study financed by the supplement companies and I assume neither would you.

I will look through this thread again at your statements, but besides Dr. Scally's posting of studies against these herbal remedies, I did not see any other empirical evidence from you on this.
 
Oh so you believe "BIg Pharma" is preventing supplement companies from performing research on the products they sell? Another conspiracy theorist, I've not the time, but I'd love to see that evidence also.

Finally I've posted evidence on this issue as has Scally elsewhere and for you to believe we are somehow obligated to support our fund of knowledge with evidence based literature on every post dealing with AAS hepatic toxicity, your mistaken.

Try goggling drug induced hepatic toxicity for supportive articles of my commentary. They are relatively easy to locate.
good luck
 
Incidentally what does the above study have to do with the use of certain drugs or supplements as hepatoprotective agents? NOTHING!
 
Oh so you believe "BIg Pharma" is preventing supplement companies from performing research on the products they sell? Another conspiracy theorist, I've not the time, but I'd love to see that evidence also.

Finally I've posted evidence on this issue as has Scally elsewhere and for you to believe we are somehow obligated to support our fund of knowledge with evidence based literature on every post dealing with AAS hepatic toxicity, your mistaken.

Try goggling drug induced hepatic toxicity for supportive articles of my commentary. They are relatively easy to locate.
good luck
Really Jim, You pull out the conspiracy theory card? What BS!

Give me your full name and I will google that. That should lead me to your commentary quicker! PM it to me, I vow I will not share it.
 
Wait a second. You say there are no studies supporting these "liver protectants"? But are there studies showing they don't neve any effect or are there just no studies at all? We know big pharma is not found to spend any money on researching this. Who else has the money to get a solid study together to determine if they do anything they claim?
 
Instead of babbling out loud with endless drivel revealing your ignorance LOOK IT UP, junior!
 
Instead of babbling out loud with endless drivel revealing your ignorance LOOK IT UP, junior!
Why are you such a condescending prick to people? You need to learn some compassion, "doctor!"

With your anger issues and outbursts, I believe your liver is inflamed and your pharma drugs are not working properly.
 
Take a Valium to conquer that horrible frustration of yours.

Then you and junior get off your spoon fed asses, and do your own evidence based research, rather than expecting others to do it for you.

Excellent I see you understand my perspective:)
 
Take a Valium to conquer that horrible frustration of yours.

Then you and junior get off your spoon fed asses, and do your own evidence based research, rather than expecting others to do it for you.

Excellent I see you understand my perspective:)
Yes you are. Luckily my background is psychology.

And btw, I am not frustrated and have done my research which I have posted in this thread and many others.
 
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Well I must admit that I am really taken aback by what the two docs have said on here. I have suffered from choleostasis (sp?) in the past, and have gone to the emergency room a few times due to the extreme pain involved. Although I have stopped taking orals, I was hoping that there was something I could take to prevent another episode.
 
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