blacks should be paid reparations

Grizzly said:
No, I don't think so, Jasthace.

Maybe you should ask a woman. That is who you were referring to, wasn't it? That sounds just like everything they've had in their collective experiences.

Yes,those were the days,if a black person come across a puddle in the street the nearest gentleman would lay down his jacket for them to pass over.
Or if a man spoke rudely to a black person a gentleman would stand up and fight for there honour.
Black people weren't to worry their pretty little heads about politics and the ways of the world for theirs was a sheltered life under the wing of their gentleman keeper.

Or in contrasting reality,if a "Black Man" ever spoke rudely to a white woman or looked at her in a wrong or upsetting way,he would more then likely spend the rest of the day being strapped to a tree whipped and/or being dragged around behind a horse or car until his pittyful{unpittyful}end.
Then a group of men with white hoods would make sure to turn up at his place or residence and see to it that it and any other inhabitants were promptly burnt to the ground.

Yeah I don't really know what the problem is with these black people ?
Why dont the just fit straight into society,what is their problem?
 
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first of i agree with grizz.

But would cutting a check. Magically blacks would feel like part of society. It would solve the problems of poverty and education problems.

I'm not black so i cant say. But do blacks honestly walk around saying that man we we slaves 50 years ago? This sucks

Tell me honestly that it wont mean that more blacks wont have 22's.
 
Women were kept as property. Ther are laws still on the books detailing in which ways it is legal to beat them and which ways it's not. They were kept out of the job market. They WANTED to vote, but were kept from it. If a woman "disrespected her man" she got beaten. I see you've never gotten past "Wuthering Heights". ;)

Immigrants? Shiiiit, they were dogs. Beaten, discriminated against, kept from gaining any employment, housing, anything.

Tell me, Jasthace, should I as a Pole petition the dagos for reparations since the etymology of the word "slave" comes from the enslavement of the Slavs during the Roman Empire?
 
As a Christian, I want reparations from Italians since they fed my people to the lions for entertainment.
 
Bob Smith said:
As a Christian, I want reparations from Italians since they fed my people to the lions for entertainment.

Hahaha! too bad its a spiritual heratige and not biological or we might have a case.

Hell I'm a shrewd business man, I'd settle out of court for one of them fancy 'I' talian sports cars! :D
 
Grizzly said:
Tell me, Jasthace, should I as a Pole petition the dagos for reparations since the etymology of the word "slave" comes from the enslavement of the Slavs during the Roman Empire?

It might pay to "forget about it"

But I see your point,get over it,move on,make the best of what you can at the present time.
Dont hold a grudge because you were under once.

I'm, just trying to get my head around why they really are in the prison system at such a disproportontate rate.
Are they just plain disproportionalty bad,do you say?

Will Smith is playing in a movie coming out soon,about a black guy off the streets in America, who somehow miraculously makes it in the big time business arena.
So he goes back to South Africa for a charity and is welcomed by Nelson Mandela himself, Nelson says to him " Welcome home son" even though he has never been there before and the man breaks down in tears.
What is with that?
He seems to think he is returning home from enslavement.
Remember the "Roots" mini series,when Cunta Kentia's{Toby} Desendants went back to Africa,it was the same tearfull repatriation.?
I dont know, but I think there is some thing in it that we are not considering or taking seriously.
 
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jasthace said:
It might pay to "forget about it"

But I see your point,get over it,move on,make the best of what you can at the present time.
Dont hold a grudge because you were under once..

How can I forget about it? Everytime the word "slave" is mentioned, I have to acknowledge the enslavement of my ancestors. Whether we're talking about whites, browns, blacks or yellows being slaves, I have to know "my peoples'" history.

NOT! I'm over it and don't give a fuck, just like everyone esle should be. There isn't a people alive who havent' been enslaved at some point. Nut up, bitches!

The problem, Jasthace, is that no one alive was "under once". The worst thing that people who are still alive had to deal with was segregation, and that doesn't apply to anyone under the age of 50. And it doesn't really account for too much of northern blacks at all. That was, primarily, a Southern thing. Not that it didn't happen in the North, it just wasn't as pronounced.

The reason that there are a disporportionate amount of blacks in jail is racist cops. LMMFAO! Ok, not really, It's a cultural thing. Crime and "being respected as a man"(aka, a violent criminal) is commonplace, accepted and expected.

I can see where the drug trade could be quite alluring. All of your friends are wearing jewelry and getting laid and whatnot. Seems like making a few quick thousands might be much better than that $7/hr job bagging groceries. Of course, I always have been and still am the poorest of my friends, and I've never resorted to illegal activities as a means of income, so.....

The funny thing is is that black Americans think they have it bad here and they yearn for their roots in Africa, which is, quite possibly, the poorest continent on Earth. They'd go there for 20 minutes and find out that fried chicken and Nikes will never again be theirs and immediately turn around and go back to the terribly oppressed lives that we white devils make them lead. :rolleyes:

I'm smart enough to know that going to Poland to be with "my people" would be a really shitty idea. Do you know why the Chicagoland area has more Polishes than any other area in the world, excludind Warsaw? Because life in Poland sucks ass!

I had an ex-girfriend who was ultra-Polish, with relatives and shit over there. She and her family mailed their old clothes to them because their relatives couldn't afford decent clothing.

Do you know why Gixxerboy's old lady is in the United States and doesn't feel ashamed to be a stripper? Because she's making more in 2 hours than her whole family does in a month in Poland!

One of my MMA training partners is from Poland. Only he and his brother are here. They left Poland because they wanted money and stuff. His mother works in a bank. In America,as well as Poland, that's a pretty decent job. The difference between the two is that your average bank worker in America will make 400/wk and his mother makes 400/MONTH in Poland.

There's a damned good reason that there's a lot of people moving TO the US, but very few moving out of the US. ;)
 
jasthace said:
ISo he goes back to South Africa for a charity and is welcomed by Nelson Mandela himself, Nelson says to him " Welcome home son" even though he has never been there before and the man breaks down in tears.
What is with that?
He seems to think he is returning home from enslavement.
.

It's collectivist bullshit! It's the same reason that "diversity" is defined as having multiple colors of people in one place. That definition of "diversity" is racist in and of itself. It's saying that there is a fundamental difference between people based solely on the color of their skin. This board is predominatnly white, yet it is still diverse as all get out. Diversity has nothing to do with skin color.

I think I got off track a bit.... The point is, your "home" is not from whence one of "your people" came 300 years ago. An American black is no more African than I am.

For all of their insistance that color shouldn't matter, blacks sure have a way of making EVERYTHING about the color of a person's skin. Just read Swing's posts.
 
Grizzly said:
I'm smart enough to know that going to Poland to be with "my people" would be a really shitty idea. Do you know why the Chicagoland area has more Polishes than any other area in the world, excludind Warsaw? Because life in Poland sucks ass!

I had an ex-girfriend who was ultra-Polish, with relatives and shit over there. She and her family mailed their old clothes to them because their relatives couldn't afford decent clothing.

Do you know why Gixxerboy's old lady is in the United States and doesn't feel ashamed to be a stripper? Because she's making more in 2 hours than her whole family does in a month in Poland!

One of my MMA training partners is from Poland. Only he and his brother are here. They left Poland because they wanted money and stuff. His mother works in a bank. In America,as well as Poland, that's a pretty decent job. The difference between the two is that your average bank worker in America will make 400/wk and his mother makes 400/MONTH in Poland.

There's a damned good reason that there's a lot of people moving TO the US, but very few moving out of the US. ;)

Very true. She packs a large box just about every month of clothes and toys and send it back to Poland. Everyone in her family asks her for money because they don't have much there. She is like the Bank of Agnieszka. A couple of her Uncles will come her for a 3month Visa work and send all the money back, They can make more in 3 months here then a Year in Poland. And they are just working as labor for construction
 
Here's a few interesting words I found on the subject,the tread is at the bottom of the page


America is a country with deep social scars that cover-over genuine unhealed wounds that most Middle Class Americans are not aware of. In the press on any given day you will not hear the word "slavery" used unless it refers to some anecdote of history; it is not accepted among the pundits of the press that the effects of slavery still live with us. Yet the violence of slavery visits us every day through the nightly news, or worse, through violent crime we encounter personally. In fact the neglect of history in understanding current events -- and more to the point, the distortion of history -- is so decisive, that it is probable that the media does so deliberately.


The roots of the Federal Government lay in mass movements driven by hatred, but this is not addressed because the modern press has decided that ancient events are not relevant to current issues. A paper-thin illusion of national unity is encouraged, because anyone with real knowledge of the ins and outs of power KNOWS that the biggest obstacles to national unity are the institutions of the republic. One of the most significant dividing lines in America is racism; but racism did not just occure spontaneously, out of the blue. The origins of racism constitute the Big Lie of the Federal Government, because it has relied on racism from Day One for its power to rule.


Americans are so immersed in the mythology of voting and party politics -- both of which are controlled through strings that go behind the scenes -- that they generally fail to notice that America is a divided country on the verge of conflagration. It is easy to identify with the Government as on "our" side when you derive of the privileged white race that set it up, and which used it to suppress the native Indians, the black slaves, or the conquored Mexicans of the southwest. Especially if the media never informs you about the injustices done against the non- white races in what essentially constitutes an elaborate caste system.


There is no better way to create a caste-based social system than through enslaving a group of people; especially if they are not of the same ethnic group as the slavemasters. The notion that America is a classless society has no evidence to support it whatsoever. Interestingly enough, those people who always insist that America is "colorblind" or "classless" are white Middle Class people, busy trying to dismiss the origins of the caste system as some kind of peculiarity of another era, when men practicing cruelty upon each other was "more accepted." It is genuine nonsense.


We are faced with some stunning contradictions as we enter the final years of the republic, because lots of people are making a profit off of the misery the republic causes. One of the biggest contradictions is the notion that what is needed to stop the crime wave is more police. The focus on preventing crime never addresses the institution that defines crime and its fatal flaws, because the reality is that the cause of crime today is the caste system of yesterday, that left in its wake millions of disenfranchised people who live as second class Americans.


The basic assumption underlying the proposal to hire more police is that people commit crimes because they are inherently BAD. It presumes that people do not refrain from committing crime because they are good people, but because they are afraid of being caught and punished! This is very important because it speaks to the way Americans are perceived by the institutions of power. It also speaks to the very deep racist roots of the Federal Government, which knows that the white community supports law enforcement, while the black, Hispanic and minority communities are suspicious of law enforcement for HISTORIC reasons.


The racial divide came to the fore in 1992, when the system was exposed as racially pre- disposed to favor white policemen over disadvantaged minorities. This took place when a white jury dismissed charges of brutality in the beating of Rodney King. The riots that took place did not occure because people wanted new appliances without paying for them... The riots took place because of the serious cleavage between the White Experience in America, and the Minority Experience.


Another clash that exposed the raw nerves that divide America took place with regards to the trial of O.J. Simpson. White America stubbornly refused to countenance the fact that the police have abused the black community since slave times, when black people attempting to seek freedom were bona fide "criminals." White America could not understand how black Americans could actually contemplate the possibility that the POLICE LIED! That law enforcement could be involved in SETTING INNOCENT PEOPLE UP as having committed crimes that they did not commit. It represents a serious division of experience that cannot be overcome by mere discussions, or by another television show.


White people in North America destroyed their cultural links with the Motherland, Britain, and then divorced their system of government from all moral content. The republic was devised as a means for keeping and controlling property, which was defined as being a moral agenda of itself. This tended to rationalize the destruction Americans used to dispossess those who had what they coveted. Initially the Americans did not think about themselves as "Americans," but as Englishmen. Ironically, so did the English in England, who had no intention of imposing a tyranny of any kind upon their brothers in the colonies. Unlike the Spanish, who developed a colonial policy of enslavement and exploitation of colonial resources, the English developed a colonial policy of settlements, whereby English communities came to be settled around the world governed by English law. When the colonies became independent there was no nationalist movement driving it, but a very business-like pragmatism that was founded around a successful slave-based economic system.


The English principles of law enabled low-born white people to be born free, but they did not prevent poor whites from indenturing themselves into slavery. Nevertheless, the basic freedom of the white population worked to create the illusion of "racial solidarity," even though the rich whites were openly using and manipulating the poor whites to keep the black slaves, and hostile neighboring natives, at bey. The expansion of the European colonies is one long tale of rich, privileged white families allowing poor whites to settle frontier zones as a safety buffer between their estates and the native Americans. Once the natives were subdued, this was seen as a political opportunity for advancement by the once-landless whites, who now felt free to join the elite in the ownership of other human beings, or slaves.


America is defined by such social ordeals as the War of Independence, and the expansion of the European-style society of the white population. While some people like to invent a fantasy that this all came about because white people are superior to other ethnic groups, this is patently false. If other ethnic groups want to enjoy what white society has, it is because white society took those things without concern to the effects on the non-white population. This was then used to motivate white people who really don't benefit from the power-structure, to defend it.


The American people are not and have never been a single ethnic group. The various ethnic groups have had independent experiences in assimilation that have to do with the basis for their presence on the north American continent. The native American Indians were here when the Europeans came and were "Removed." They are reluctant Americans, having never been offered any choices outside of subjugation or death. Likewise, the black community did not come to America by any operation of law. They were imported as property under the most inhumane and barbaric circumstances, that have left a permanent scar on the modern black community; but they are also all-American, having had their African roots all but obliterated by a threatened white slave-owning class.


While the slaves were held down by the Federal Government, and the Indians were held outside, the Mexican population of the southwest was literally conquored. The mythic realm of Astlan is roughly translated into an Aztec Kingdom of California, the Mexican people having deep roots in native Indian culture. The word "Aztec" is roughly the equivalent to "Indian," and is almost a generic term for native. Astlan, in turn, embodies the yearning of the native, indigenous people for a nation that expresses who and what they are, independent of the colonial power of America. This need for independence derives from a powerful understanding among Mexican-Americans that they have not had a positive experience as colonial subjects in the New World. A world that in actuality was not new at all, but very old.


The first genuine shockwaves to the sensibilities of average white Americans came about when an amateur video enthusiast accidentally filmed the beating of a motorist, after the motorist gave the police a long chase. All Americans realize that the police don't play games, and they generally take the police seriously regardless of issues of corruption, incompetence or brutality. White Middle Class Americans, in particular, have had a history of successfully using "the system" to effect changes; but black Americans, by and large, do not enjoy that same history. Black Americans, to the contrary, recognize that they are deeply feared by the white community, which has used its control over the police apparatus to protect their property, which once included black people as OBJECTS.


This is extremely important because it underscores the basic differences felt by whites and blacks in America. White America has come to rely on the law enforcement apparatus of the republic to protect it from crime, and in the average person's imagination the source of most crime is the black community. This is largely due to media coverage and the exaggeration of racial tensions, but it also stems from the reality that the brutal repression visited upon the enslaved ancestors of the modern black community, is being re-visited on the descendants of those who accomodated the institution of slavery, through a form of psychological baggage. The slaves were reduced to dependence, so that they were illiterate, and then they were abandoned when industrialization demanded a higher grade of worksmanship and skill than could be obtained from forced labor. This marginalized the black population economically, who not only suffered from the effects of being suppressed, but also had to suffer the insult of racism, that inferred that the lack of success attained by black people was due not to any determined effort to suppress them, but from some biological failure on their part. This is even more insultingly obvious in programs like Affirmative Action, which basically created quotas for minorities because it was believed that the members of these communities could not attain success on their own, without a special advantage.


Crime is perceived of as taking place by non-whites against whites, which is the real nature of the so-called "War on Crime" made famous in the media. The heat of this in non-white communities has been deflected by the evolution of a Middle Class black community, and a Middle Class hispanic community, made up of members of both communities that have been given special jobs, such as in the government bureaucracy, giving them the lifestyle of average white Americans. This is the image of the Huxtables of Bill Cosby fame; the young urban black professionals. They are the ones the Establishment sends out to confront the masses of black kids who grew up without fathers, whose role-models almost always died under mysterious circumstances, to convince them that the American republican Government is not racist.


One of the most significant ironies of modern life in the United States was expressed in July, 1996, by a writer from Time Magazine. He was commenting on why Americans would not vote for the Libertarian Party, saying that no one would support the abolition of the FBI. This is probably true of the average voting Middle Class white person (male or female). But it is not true of the average Latino or Latina, and it is certainly not true of the black community. Additionally, the great majority of Middle Class Americans who are defined by the blue-blood "old money" social register class of Americans as "white trash," also have no love lost on the FBI. Poor people by definition don't have any property to protect, and they are generally on the losing end of contact with police on any level.


Racism is a very serious problem in America, but if one listens to the nightly news, it might appear that the biggest dilemma the average Middle Class person might have is how to get rid of that "soapy" feeling after showers! The industrial economy is designed around a basic ethic that undermines community solidarity among the people who live in America, to power a consumer society that has no scruples about the end results. We are constantly being barraged with the message not to worry about the police brutality taking place to someone else of another race, or injustices being caused by out-of-control public and private bureaucracies, in order to concentrate solely upon one's own enrichment. The personal pursuit of wealth is seen as the avenue to "justice," even though this road to riches is blocked at every turn by a legal system that is meticulously deliberate.


The individual is forced to work to pay all his bills, which are all for services provided by lucrative monopolies created under state law, for amounts that are politically rigged and exploitative. How much is an appropriate price for electricity, or telephone service, or gas? We may never know, because these industries have powerful allies in the Government, and even talk about privatization denies the reality that the entire infrastructure was paid for with the money provided by millions of Americans in their bills and taxes, for which they have received nothing tangible other than a guarantee of another bill for the next billing cycle.


One thing we do know is that at the end of every pay-period, the individual with work has no more money to spend; and what is left at the end of the year, the IRS or the state Franchise Tax Board takes. The very regularity of scarcity, and the very closeness of the figures between what is owed in taxes and what is made by the worker, underscores the presence of a deliberate attempt to keep the working man from being able to accumulate the fortune that all the forces of modern America promise as the hope of his salvation from a life of toil. The purpose of the labor force is to replace the outlawed slave labor; and the purpose of the Federal Government was to keep the slaves from running away; likewise, it still operates so as to postpone the accumulation of sufficient wealth by the powerless classes, which might liberate them from the labor force.


It would be possible to create a "colorblind" society, but only if it is admitted that America is not NOW colorblind. It will probably never be possible to create a classless society, because there will always be significant differences of intelligence among individuals, outside of racial issues, that will determine how resources are allocated, and the very existence of resources predestines the natural evolution of degrees based on amounts of property. Some people argue for the abolition of all property; but a more workable solution is the evolution of legal theories that, while allowing property to continue to exist, will not allow property to have a priority over human life, or the misery of deprivation. Human life has to MEAN SOMETHING.


One thing American experience has learned with some certainty is that the more fairly property is distributed within a society, the more social peace there is. Alternatively, the more unfairly property is allocated, the higher the likelihood of social unrest. Current unrest in America does not derive from any lack of rights, but from a system that fails to enforce them.


In a capitalist society it is the way money is circulated that determines how property is allocated, and the banking system is central to the circulation of money. The banking system that exists has been proven to be racist in its policies on extending credit, which underscores the genuine tension between the whites who are able to access the credit that keeps their worlds in tact, and the blacks who are unable to access credit, even though they have the same job status and credit as the white people. Even more significantly, there is a political aspect to the banking system that rewards those who swear allegiance to the republic, and which penalizes those who refuse to collaborate with an illicit Government. This speaks right to the core of pragmatism, impelling good and principled individuals to feel the uselessness of pursuing justice for themselves or others, if it might involve suffering in some way.


A new banking system is absolutely essential if the strangle-hold of the Establishment is to be broken. A new monetary system. The control of the United States Government is secured by much more than the U.S. Army and the FBI: It is secured by our own reliance on its monetary system for every daily necessity. Only once Americans honestly review the record will they be able to address the current threatening conditions with any hope of saving the country.


In order to get a clear view of the role of money and wages in modern America, and their relationship to power, all we need to look at is the history of the Minimum Wage. The idea that the American economy is a free enterprise system is belied by the fact that it takes an Act of Congress to raise the wages of the average American, of any race. There is also "woman's work," which is basically uncompensated, women being expected to do housework in exchange for the love of their families. Of course, few men are moved by such issues as love of family, especially to the point of making a personal sacrifice, and that is the true weakness of the industrial society: It works against the human bonds of friendship and family, that make life worth living.


In the final summation there is a single race of man, made up of many ethnicities, but all are human, and all are entitled to the basic dignity of the recognition of their humanity. Likewise, the fact that we use a word like "man" deliberately infers that women are also "men," in the higher sense of being essential members of mankind. If there is to be hope, it will come from a new and different direction than that pointed to by the mass media, or the politicians of the republic. It will derive of tradition, and the roots of our values as human beings. We can overcome what divides us, but it will be through the diligent application of love: Love of our country, love of our countrymen, and love of doing right.

http://www.worldfreeinternet.net/news/nws5.htm


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:rolleyes: I was nauseous while reading, but when I got to the paragraph about Rodney King, I threw up and I'm done reading this drivel.
 
Now, I'm shitting in my pants, too. Think I might eat it. It'll leave a better taste in my mouth than the rest of that Marxist shit did.
 
oh fuck what is that? The banks are racist? Well I guess if you've got some body in there asking to borrow a "quata" or "fie dollas" a banker would have good reason to be a bit standoffish;)

Seriously, though... I've never known any respectible man, with a sound case for financing to be turned down from any bank I do business with. The biggest problem that your run of the mill blacks have is that the only credit they have, if they have any, is bad!
 
I run a high end fitness store. Once in a while a get some one in and ask if they can make payments. I tell them yes we have financing its through Wells Fargo. Some are fine with that. But sometimes i get this response. "No not that. Can i make payments you know lay away?" Now i get asked that but only 1 type of person. 1 guess who it is.

BTW who does lay away anymore. Did that go away in the early 80's
 
Remember kids, its sociaties falt not mine. I have no money cause your racist. I'm not smart because I have a ADD. I'm not crazy, I'm supressed by bullies. I kill people because I play video games. I'm fat because of MacDonalds. I'm unemployed because your racist. I'm gay cause dad didn't hug me enough or too much i'm not sure.

Basically there's nothing wrong with me its you! Its your fault.......

Fuck em all, If everyone took responsibility for there actions and quite looking for the easy way out we would not have the problems we do today..

I get sick of everyone blaming someone else for there problems. The fucking indians do it up here all the time and now own 152% of this province. (land)

who the fuck cares what we did so many years ago, or even last year get over it and quite reaching into my white pocket to get more free money.
 
At the risk of being publicly flogged by again by mods I'll try another post.


On slavery:
Included in someones answer to one of my previous posts was a statement claiming not to have knowledge of the enslavement of whites by blacks in history.

It had never occured to me that perhaps people were not aware of this interesting part of history.

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/whtslav.htm

Perhaps it should also be noted that in the early 1800's America purchased a massive piece of land in western Africa known today as Liberia, from the term liberate.
The American government then offered many hundreds of thousands of ex-slaves passage back to Africa, money and land in this new Country. (Trip courtesy of the US Navy)
It should be known that these ex-slaves, upon return to Africa, subjugated the local Africans and turned them into slaves, had them build southern style plantation houses, work in the fields, etc...

On racism today:
In the movie "American History X" the young black man who befriends Derek told him that in jail the white man was the Ni$%er.
It is my opinion that in the eyes of the elite today, we are all equally the Ni%^ers.

To deny that white on black racism exists would be foolish. Equally foolish would be denying the existance of black on white racism. This devision helps occupy the masses and divert attention from real underlying problems faced by all americans today.
 
Dionysus said:
To deny that white on black racism exists would be foolish. Equally foolish would be denying the existance of black on white racism. This devision helps occupy the masses and divert attention from real underlying problems faced by all americans today.

Maybe. But wouldn't the more proximate answer be simply ignorance. Afterall, it is the ignorant that spend all of their lifes energy on focusing on such superficial traits.

And, to take a tangent, I can safely say that the prejudice that grows within me day by day is envoked by appalling character traits that I am continually exposed to on a regular basis, white black, or other not by inherited hatred for another race.
 
IMO, racism is just the "cause du jour", if you will. There may be some people who actually dislike others based solely on the color of their skin, but I think most "racists" are actually "culturalists" and equate color with certain behaviors that are common in cultures related to that color.

For instance, one would say, "I don't like blacks because they're unemployed, drug dealing SOB's who mooch off the welfare system instead of getting a real job".

This is not a function of being black. Merely a function of the dominant urban culture. If it were simply a function of being black, then ALL black folks would fit this description. ALL of them don't, therefore, it is a cultural, not racial thing.

My point in saying that it is the "cause du jour", is that this very same generalized, stereotypical behavior is accepcted in every other case, except that of race. It is completely acceptable to say, "ALL cops are pieces of shit" or "Women do X" or "I hate homos".

The difference being that you're a cad if you say anything racially based, but any other broad generalization is completely acceptable. :rolleyes:
 
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