Crystal's 1st Cycle Log. Anavar Only.

[OdieM]

What is the cycle length you normally see? 8-12 weeks is what I have seen as well, as the doses are small and we often taper up and taper down throughout the cycle.

You girls shouldn't listen to anything us guys say about aas. Just because I saw a few logs where women ran shorter cycles doesn't mean that's the correct way y'all should do it. Honestly I have no idea. Women are Aliens and men will never understand y'all. I would say if I was running a oral I would take something for the liver. I take liver armor myself. It was just mentioned that your low dose is equivalent to a males high dose and we take stuff to protect our liver when we run orals.

 

[Happycamper]

You girls shouldn't listen to anything us guys say about aas. Just because I saw a few logs where women ran shorter cycles doesn't mean that's the correct way y'all should do it. Honestly I have no idea. Women are Aliens and men will never understand y'all. I would say if I was running a oral I would take something for the liver. I take liver armor myself. It was just mentioned that your low dose is equivalent to a males high dose and we take stuff to protect our liver when we run orals.

Got it! I wasn't being combative, just genuinely curious as liver toxicity is a huge concern of mine.

 

[OdieM]

I've read them, and yes while I think 10 weeks is long, the toxic levels will never reach the saturation men will because of the low dose. I do admit the dose has to be that low and it will be similar to the results as a man taking a higher dose. I know the half life of orals is 8-12 hours but no way in hell did I look better after a day or 2 of taking an oral. You basically confirmed what I said, look at your post "by week 2" so a whole week, plus a few days over, by then yes you will see results. Did I not say by the end of week 2? Look at my post above. I've also read bill Roberts article, and as a matter of fact of been reading up on women and steroids for the last 6 months or so because I wanted to have an understanding of the effects on women before I fed var to my fiancé. You on the other hand have admit that you don't know much on the subject nor does your wife use, so experience wise on women you don't have much to go by, just your experience as a man. Like GG agreed initially it's about the diet, yes the orals will help with the results but in the first week I can honestly say it's the diet.

Edit: not wanting to argue, just stating facts.

You are high.

 

[Trapmonster]

You are high.

Nice come back, I was hoping for something informative to back up your claims.

 

[Happycamper]

From my understanding, it's pretty safe DUE to the fact that we can get away with such low doses to produce results. The liver toxicity comes with running the 40 or more mg a day that males take, along with stacking them with other compouds. We are running 20 at the most and that's safely processed in the body. The performance enhancing is magnified for women, but the liver toxicity is safer at the levels we take.

 

[GearGodess]

You are high.

Boys, relax... we had this discussion with one of the Docs here... they suggested supplementation that you buy OTC is possibly a waste. Keeping hydrated, not drinking alcohol, and keeping a clean diet will do a lot more in keeping your liver healthy than some overpriced crap from GNC...You have better chances dying from alcohol and smoking than this stuff... UNLESS you have an underlying condition that may cause you to have issues. I myself have tried NAC and Milk Thistle and to be honest, my results never came back any different. It was just an extra pill I needed to take.

 

[Trapmonster]

From my understanding, it's pretty safe DUE to the fact that we can get away with such low doses to produce results. The liver toxicity comes with running the 40 or more mg a day that males take, along with stacking them with other compouds. We are running 20 at the most and that's safely processed in the body. The performance enhancing is magnified for women, but the liver toxicity is safer at the levels we take.

That's the way I see it too. As a woman you're not going to take extreme amounts to get that toxicity. Would be the equivalent of a woman who has a high tolerance for alcohol keeping up withe a big man, obviously that would be highly toxic at that point. What wasn't pointed out is that since men need more MG for it to be effective that's when it starts to become a toxicity problem.

 

[OdieM]

Nice come back, I was hoping for something informative to back up your claims.

Im trying to play nice in the women section. I read about half of your last comment. Basically to the point that you said I said something that I didn't. This is going no where and were trashing up this nice ladies thread. I can tell you what I really think if you wish? I think you've been around long enough to know that I'm playing nice here but my good natural is very short lived if you catch my drift.

 

[weighted chinup]

Liver toxicity with the doses being discussed shouldn't be a huge concern assuming you have normal LFT's in the first place or don't have any hepatic injury, and even still most other sides and changes in health markers like lipids will USUALLY return to normal after use has been discontinued for long enough. This really just has more to do with being reasonable and allowing ample time off when needed.

Liver protection is a waste of $ as there is no evidence showing it is effective for preventing AAS induced hepatic problems. It's worth mentioning though everyone is different and some people just can't tolerate any amount of something that puts stress on the liver, but that applies to things other than AAS too (alcohol for example).

 

[Happycamper]

Personally, i think it's good discussion as long as you guys can be civil. All of this is important to discuss and research as most of us are doing this intelligently and with our health as a priority.

 

[Trapmonster]

I agree with the liver support. Coming from a family that big on herbal support, I used to be an advocate for it. After researching and finding that it really only helps those with bad liver values, and studies showin on healthy individuals not doing anything, plus the 2 docs that are on here, I lean more towards the fact that they are useless for someone relatively healthy

 

[Crystal234]

That's alright! My wife looks great after 2 kids. Better than she did when we started "dating" and that goes WAY back before HS. That's what I tell her and I mean it. Sexy ass mom body mmm

Aww, that's awesome and I'm sure she loves you even more for it. Haha, you sound just like my hubby.

He got the same way when I was pregnant, too. I was a bit weirded out by it and felt so self-concious, but he thought I was the sexiest thing alive. Then, the pregnancy hormones kicked in and I would get insecure thinking he was only attracted to me while I was pregnant. Ha! All those chemical imbalances do crazy things to your brain.

 

[Trapmonster]

Monitoring. There are NO supplements to decrease, prevent, eliminate, etc. liver changes.

If you have PBC, then OCA. http://ir.interceptpharma.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=964146

Crazy talking about this and scally updates the above thread.

So as of now, liver support does not work, but scally posted a link about expediting a new drug for liver diseases.

 

[Happycamper]

I worry about liver more than I do the androgenic sides, to be honest. I took milk thistle and a lady I chatted up told me TUDCA seemed to help her with some lethargy she was feeling...but on the advice of the medical peeps here, I never purchased more milk thistle when I was out.

I have been diligent about water and healthy diet and rest, so hopefully all will be well. I dont drink alcohol in general. It does worry me, though.

 

[OdieM]

Crazy talking about this and scally updates the above thread.

So as of now, liver support does not work, but scally posted a link about expediting a new drug for liver diseases.

Weird after your last comment. I've ran Dbol in a lot of my cycles. Just recently I started taking Milk thisel or whatever its called and I definitely don't feel toxic while taking it where I do when I don't. We are all different though and I've heard that theres no test to prove it but theres none to not prove it either. I swear by it and so do ALOT of people. Whats it hurt to take it? Its cheap and can't do no harm. Maybe its just me but I'm all about staying healthy. I recently started taking BP meds while on cycle.

Also Scally is fucking awesome to say the lest and has provided so much to this community. Well except for those weird youtube videos he post for no apparent reason. Lets be honest though, his 10x rule is a theory at best. It may work somewhat for cycles. Really we don't know because no one runs a cycle with Watson. But his 10x rule is crap when it comes to trt. Just about everyone is prescribed 200mg of T for low T but their blood work only comes back AROUND 1000 and thats a fact. I'm on a few boards and have access to 1000s of blood work.

 

[Happycamper]

Weird after your last comment. I've ran Dbol in a lot of my cycles. Just recently I started taking Milk thisel or whatever its called and I definitely don't feel toxic while taking it where I do when I don't. We are all different though and I've heard that theres no test to prove it but theres none to not prove it either. I swear by it and so do ALOT of people. Whats it hurt to take it? Its cheap and can't do no harm. Maybe its just me but I'm all about staying healthy. I recently started taking BP meds while on cycle.

Also Scally is fucking awesome to say the lest and has provided so much to this community. Well except for those weird youtube videos he post for no apparent reason. Lets be honest though, his 10x rule is a theory at best. It may work somewhat for cycles. Really we don't know because no one runs a cycle with Watson. But his 10x rule is crap when it comes to trt. Just about everyone is prescribed 200mg of T for low T but their blood work only comes back AROUND 1000 and thats a fact. I'm on a few boards and have access to 1000s of blood work.

Can you describe the feeling of being toxic? Just would like to see if it's something I've felt on cycle.

 

[Trapmonster]

Weird after your last comment. I've ran Dbol in a lot of my cycles. Just recently I started taking Milk thisel or whatever its called and I definitely don't feel toxic while taking it where I do when I don't. We are all different though and I've heard that theres no test to prove it but theres none to not prove it either. I swear by it and so do ALOT of people. Whats it hurt to take it? Its cheap and can't do no harm. Maybe its just me but I'm all about staying healthy. I recently started taking BP meds while on cycle.

Also Scally is fucking awesome to say the lest and has provided so much to this community. Well except for those weird youtube videos he post for no apparent reason. Lets be honest though, his 10x rule is a theory at best. It may work somewhat for cycles. Really we don't know because no one runs a cycle with Watson. But his 10x rule is crap when it comes to trt. Just about everyone is prescribed 200mg of T for low T but their blood work only comes back AROUND 1000 and thats a fact. I'm on a few boards and have access to 1000s of blood work.

I get what your saying. I come from a family that is big on herbal meds and supplements. I used to take liver support because my mom got me into it. Why I lean the way I do now, is because for a a healthy person there hasn't been any clinical studies to show liver support works. The FDA took interest in this because there must clinical data that shows this does help, which no data has shown before. I like being healthy, but if there's no evidence to show something works I don't want to spend my money on it, just like you wouldn't with natural test boosters. But if there's evidence I'm all for it otherwise, it's just an unregulated FDA supplement. And they way I see it, FDA takes anything that works and makes it prescription, everything else usually remain a supplement

 

[Trapmonster]

Can you describe the feeling of being toxic? Just would like to see if it's something I've felt on cycle.

Prohormones were notorious for this. To me, my brother, and a couple of other people that have dabbled with orals have come to the conclusion that it is when you start feeling nauseas and sick, sort of like a hang over. Usually goes away upon discontinuation

 

[OdieM]

Can you describe the feeling of being toxic? Just would like to see if it's something I've felt on cycle.

Hard to describe. Its basically a lethargy feeling but also I sweat a lot and feel crappy. Almost a like Im getting sick. Like I need to go sit in a spa and sweat all the toxins out of me but really it doesn't go away until the dose is lowered or discontinued.

Any guy who has ran tren has felt toxic. Well good tren anyway. I think its just the bodies way of saying this substance is harsh and doesn't belong in here.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Hard to describe. Its basically a lethargy feeling but also I sweat a lot and feel crappy. Almost a like Im getting sick. Like I need to go sit in a spa and sweat all the toxins out of me but really it doesn't go away until the dose is lowered or discontinued.

Any guy who has ran tren has felt toxic. Well good tren anyway. I think its just the bodies way of saying this substance is harsh and doesn't belong in here.

The feeling of haywire all day. Work a 16 hr day plus 2 hr workout and still can't lay still enough to grab 4 straight hours. That everyday for the entire duration of tren use = toxic