Eman
Master
I don't want to even indulge the age old argument of how much protein but I can also say that 1 GR/lb of LBM is absolutely not enough at least for a male or specifically a 245 pound male such as myself. 1.5 GR/lb of BW is ideal.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
First anavar cycle female
- Thread starter Happycamper
- Start date
Well, doesn't my individual experience match the science anyway? I'm not being combative, I'm just discussing. I love this stuff and pay very close attention to my body and science as well. No cop outs, no authoritative tone. Just passion for the topic. I'm no keyboard warrior, just a girl who loves to lift and eat
There is no science that supports the notion "1.5 to 2.0" grams of protein/pound a day is necessary or even enhances SKM anabolism above that which may be achieved from 1 Gram/ pound a day.
There are many anectodal examples of this effect the most obvious being how well structured veggie diets fare compared to high end protein diets.
Further evidence for the net effect of dietary protein is the impact (or lack thereof) on anabolism is well demonstrated in BURN PATIENTS, Protein losing enteropathies, and patients on hyperalumentatin.
They all reach roughly the same conclusion, the ingestion of protein above one gram/pound per day is of limited benefit.
The difference is how protein is utilized under different dietary conditions.
Sunce SKM anabolism is a time and substrate fixed process, that amount of protein which is not used for protein dependent pathways is either converted to fat, carbs or excreted as UREA.
It's like building houses and having PLENTY of concrete (protein) for the foundation yet the dry wall is in route, as are the plumbers, framers and electricians. It takes time to build muscle and no amount of protein will alter that course.
Having "enough protein" is only a small portion of building muscle and it's also one of the MOST EXPENSIVE components. The net effect of high protein diets for some is expensive urine.
So just bc one CAN use more dietary protein doesn't mean one NEEDS TO.
BB should focus on maintaining a POSITIVE NIITROGEN BALANCE, the rest will come in due course.
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But Unfortunately BB, especially newbies, are some of the most impatient athletes today.
Many want it all NOW and are willing to try damn near anything to accelerate the rate limiting step, not knowing for modern BB, the rate limiting factor is TIME.
Look at any of the Mr O winners (or ANY of those who qualified to be on that stage) and investigate how LONG these fellas were involved in this sports, for essentially close to DECADE or more, before they became legitimate contenders.
So Meso noobs prance onto this board having worked out a few years, many with inadequate diets, exercise techniques, fund of knowledge and they believe changing their PROTEIN INTAKE is their Godsend!
THEY HAVE NO IDEA!
Many want it all NOW and are willing to try damn near anything to accelerate the rate limiting step, not knowing for modern BB, the rate limiting factor is TIME.
Look at any of the Mr O winners (or ANY of those who qualified to be on that stage) and investigate how LONG these fellas were involved in this sports, for essentially close to DECADE or more, before they became legitimate contenders.
So Meso noobs prance onto this board having worked out a few years, many with inadequate diets, exercise techniques, fund of knowledge and they believe changing their PROTEIN INTAKE is their Godsend!
THEY HAVE NO IDEA!
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Finally HAPPYGAL and GearGal
Since you and GG seem more experienced than the overwhelming majority of Meso noobs and even some Meso Vets your input is most welcome.
Besides that I don't like "arguing" with the ladies I always "lose" in one way or another.
Jim
Since you and GG seem more experienced than the overwhelming majority of Meso noobs and even some Meso Vets your input is most welcome.
Besides that I don't like "arguing" with the ladies I always "lose" in one way or another.
Jim
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GearGodess
Well-known Member
Oh boy... I've missed a lot... gotta catch up again... hate when work get in the way of play sometimes lol ... Dr.Jim has joined us I see... always enjoy reading your posts even though sometimes we don't see eye to eye...
lol ... Dr.Jim has joined us I see... always enjoy reading your posts even though sometimes we don't see eye to eye...
GearGodess
Well-known Member
I believe I have seen studies and/or journals stating the use and amounts of protein in different cases....will need to find it again.
I know you said experience doesn't count but I'm not basing it just on me.
I have worked with many people as well as my own experiences... and what I have found is that, especially with var, if the protein was at my typical 1g or under, I felt cramps and discomfort. once I upped it, all other details remain the same, I felt great. That's why I suggested it and seems to work the same for others time and time again.
I know you said experience doesn't count but I'm not basing it just on me.
I have worked with many people as well as my own experiences... and what I have found is that, especially with var, if the protein was at my typical 1g or under, I felt cramps and discomfort. once I upped it, all other details remain the same, I felt great. That's why I suggested it and seems to work the same for others time and time again.
I'm not suggesting more may not be beneficial ESPECIALLY for high end elite BB but for the majority of Meso members, based on existing evidence, ONE gram is about right.
It's the thought this EXTRA protein may somehow be a substitute for the proper training, technique, a qualified trainer, and sound overall diet that I take issue with.
In other words the SHORT CUT to success is more protein, NOT!
And yes we see this same scenario replayed everyday on Meso folk exchanging a variety of PEDS including AAS, rather than committing themselves to what is a time honored process SKM anabolism.
There are no SHORT CUTS!
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Eman
Master
GearGodess
Well-known Member
That is true... people want that magic fix and quick solution... they fail to realize the time, dedication and sacrifice that is needed to be fully in this lifestyle.
There are people who know what it takes but yes, there are many who don't.
Prairie Boy
Well-known Member
That's exactly right GG
Happycamper
New Member
I find it crazy that you're lecturing people for using AAS and wanting shortcuts and unatural results using Mr. O as an example of patience, hard work and dedication. That, for me, really discredits your rants.
This place is fiesty! I like it.
achilles87
New Member
I don't think he's saying don't use peds then say look at mr o., he's saying look how long some of the guys have been training to get there. I know jay cutler was doing it for years Ronnie Colman doing it for years, yes they used but it also took them years to get there. These people now think one cycle and a year of training they can achieve that body... hey if you can you can. The fact of the matter is no matter what compound you use your muscles will only develop so much in a short period of time.
I use to buy into all the supplements, taking 2g of protein per body pound, taking all the shit gnc had to offer. Now I know what the stuff actually does and what works and what don't. In my opinion of you are taking in a shit ton of protein and you are bulking you are only hurting yourself because high protein intake will cause your body to burn off more calories. If you are in a cut yes high protein will work for you.
I'm rambling like always, but I think dr. J was just trying to make some realize the fact is no matter what you do or what you take it still takes years to achieve what some of the top bb have. Nothing will get you there but hard work, diet and time... Oh and peds will help as well lol.
I use to buy into all the supplements, taking 2g of protein per body pound, taking all the shit gnc had to offer. Now I know what the stuff actually does and what works and what don't. In my opinion of you are taking in a shit ton of protein and you are bulking you are only hurting yourself because high protein intake will cause your body to burn off more calories. If you are in a cut yes high protein will work for you.
I'm rambling like always, but I think dr. J was just trying to make some realize the fact is no matter what you do or what you take it still takes years to achieve what some of the top bb have. Nothing will get you there but hard work, diet and time... Oh and peds will help as well lol.
I find it crazy that you're lecturing people for using AAS and wanting shortcuts and unatural results using Mr. O as an example of patience, hard work and dedication. That, for me, really discredits your rants.
This place is fiesty! I like it.
You need to spend A LOT more time on this forum to better understand the mechanics, personalities and the "rants" of those involved.
Yep I do take issue with those who elect to use AAS as some casual experiment bc it make the rest of the BB community look like MORONS.
You think AAS became scheduled substances bc of MR O contests, not even. The casual PED user has done more to WRECK the sport of competitive BB than all other factors combined.
The evidence of what I'm referring to exists on EVERY AAS forum!
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Flaming Dragon
Well-known Member
@Dr JIM .. That's how my wife is..
I would try to tell her something and she totally misunderstand
--ending with my dinner thrown in trash can and her saying "F..blah blah"
sub..
@Dr JIM .. That's how my wife is..
sub..
Yea but at least HG tried to understand maleness (aka my perspective
)
I hear AAS are shortcuts though... Maybe I'll try some.
If I had to include every exception my rants would never end..... As in no SHORTCUTS to the HARD WORK required for anabolic processes, but some continue their search for the easy way out, and that starts with hey Doc don't you have "a pill", I mean surely you don't think I'm interested in dieting or exercise do ya!
I see this and asked this almost every day it seems. Along with the statement from women... "I don't want to bulk up from lifting heavy" lol
Time, dedication, proper nutrition, work ethic, training correctly and safely, etc. all play a part. The drugs will help you achieve what you are wanting a little quicker but slow and steady always results in a better outcome in my opinion.
mands
Eman
Master
We're always looking for the miracle drug to make things "easier" and to get the "best" results. Those that would spend less time searching for these things and more time on the actual goals would find the results much more easily attained I believe... Maybe it's just the American way now.
Time is absolutely the most valuable commodity in this lifestyle though...probably the most valuable commodity there is in life as well.
Happycamper
New Member
I guess I just do not understand the lecturing here.
I'm a grown woman. I've lost 115 lbs through exercise and diet. To shed the last 40 lbs I added EC and it helped.
I deadlift 2x bodyweight.
I squat 1.5x bodyweight.
I bench almost bodyweight.
I run a half marathon once a month.
I'm a career woman and a mother.
There isn't much in the way of laziness and shortcuts or copouts in my life.
Running a low dose of Anavar to help with some physique goals sounds hardly deserving of a condescending rant about my gender and work ethic amongst responsible adults.
I'm a grown woman. I've lost 115 lbs through exercise and diet. To shed the last 40 lbs I added EC and it helped.
I deadlift 2x bodyweight.
I squat 1.5x bodyweight.
I bench almost bodyweight.
I run a half marathon once a month.
I'm a career woman and a mother.
There isn't much in the way of laziness and shortcuts or copouts in my life.
Running a low dose of Anavar to help with some physique goals sounds hardly deserving of a condescending rant about my gender and work ethic amongst responsible adults.
We were having our own conversation within yours. We kinda hijacked it and got side tracked for a sec. I apologize. I wasn't directing anything towards you at all.
mands
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