Has anyone actually harmed their heart / kidneys from steroids in spite of having good BP and blood work?

[explodingHeart]

Title explains it all.

Just wondering if over a long period of time (10+ years) the effects of AAS directly on heart/kidney organs have caused users a lot of damage, independent of blood pressure, heart rate, blood work, etc.

 

[Intrepid]

Title explains it all.

Just wondering if over a long period of time (10+ years) the effects of AAS directly on heart/kidney organs have caused users a lot of damage, independent of blood pressure, heart rate, blood work, etc.

Definitely some ventricular heart remodeling from the GH. Studys show that even 4 weeks of superphysiological doses can cause changes.

Do I still use gh anyways? Yes

Supraphysiological Doses of GH Induce Rapid Changes in Cardiac Morphology and Function

Abstract. GH is an agent widely used in sport to improve physical performance and has been proposed as adjunctive therapy in several clinical conditions. H

academic.oup.com

"Low-dose GH did not significantly affect echocardiographic parameters. In contrast, high-dose GH increased left ventricular mass index by 12% (P < 0.05). The type of growth response was concentric, because left ventricular wall thickness but not diameter increased, leading to a 10% increase of relative wall thickness. These structural changes were associated with functional changes, including a significant increase in cardiac index and a decrease in peripheral vascular resistance; diastolic function was not altered. Fractional shortening and systemic blood pressure were unchanged in the two treatment groups.

In conclusion, administration of GH for 4 wk at doses that simulate GH abuse in sport caused a high cardiac output state associated with concentric left ventricular remodeling."

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Definitely some ventricular heart remodeling from the GH. Studys show that even 4 weeks of superphysiological doses can cause changes.

Do I still use gh anyways? Yes

Have you tried converting those doses to IU? I think 1 mg of HGH = 3 IU? So for a 200 lb man, the low dose was 8 IU and the high dose was 16 IU. Please correct me if my calculations are off, but if anything, this would suggest that a majority of GH users are not likely to develop LVH, at least not within the 4 week period studied.

 

[Intrepid]

Have you tried converting those doses to IU? I think 1 mg of HGH = 3 IU? So for a 200 lb man, the low dose was 8 IU and the high dose was 16 IU. Please correct me if my calculations are off, but if anything, this would suggest that a majority of GH users are not likely to develop LVH, at least not within the 4 week period studied.

I think this is a fair assessment

The changes at the more acceptable dosages might not take place over 4 weeks like in this study, but I do think prolonged use of 8iu+ will definitely lead to heart remodeling and increased thickness, just perhaps a bit slower

 

[PeterBond]

We see left ventricular hypertrophy quite regularly, also in the absence of hypertension. Kidneys we sometimes see decreased eGFR (based on cystatin c) and an increased albumin:creatinine ratio in urine. One of our patients, unfortunately, developed focal segmental glomerulosclerosis during a steroid cycle. He's been off for over a year now, and his eGFR is not showing any improvement (stuck around ~30), despite treatment.

 

[Liter O' Test]

Chase irons recently got a full torso MRI scan, his heart was within range, wasn't even enlarged to an athletes size despite using gear for more than a decade, including hgh for years, and most recently 18U of serostim for months and 3g of test.

 

[narta]

Chase irons recently got a full torso MRI scan, his heart was within range, wasn't even enlarged to an athletes size despite using gear for more than a decade, including hgh for years, and most recently 18U of serostim for months and 3g of test.

Genetics. Like it or not if your parents/close relatives suffer from cvd, high BP, kidney etc you are prone to develop the same or worst problems.

Having the right parents is crucial

 

[Davidinovg]

I did keep my blood pressure perfect during all my cycles and used tren just 2 times and EQ once, orals only twice in my life (now not anymore) and my EGFR is pretty low now around 56, so it seems like my kidneys have been affected somehow.

Now I'm using only Test, Primo and Npp for my cycles and I'm checking my health markers even more often considering I'm aging.

Will be sad to stop all this shit one day due to health issues..

 

[Liter O' Test]

I did keep my blood pressure perfect during all my cycles and used tren just 2 times and EQ once, orals only twice in my life (now not anymore) and my EGFR is pretty low now around 56, so it seems like my kidneys have been affected somehow.

Now I'm using only Test, Primo and Npp for my cycles and I'm checking my health markers even more often considering I'm aging.

Will be sad to stop all this shit one day due to health issues..

thats what i thought too bro, but then i noticed that my creatnine never changed and that the lab didnt use my height and weight, like my old doc visits did.
i guess my point is that if youre going to go off EGFR, make sure that all the data is consistent, and that youre not plugging in some values you got independently into some random internet calculator, and comparing it to old bloodwork that might have different factors involved.

anyway if thats not the case, and your individual values are getting worse, you should take 4-6g astragalus powder (not concentrate pills) per day.

that alone reduced my creatnine from 1.26 to 1.21 in 1 month.

 

[ksm2]

We see left ventricular hypertrophy quite regularly, also in the absence of hypertension.

Which could be avoided mostly with daily telmisartan, right?

 

[Davidinovg]

thats what i thought too bro, but then i noticed that my creatnine never changed and that the lab didnt use my height and weight, like my old doc visits did.
i guess my point is that if youre going to go off EGFR, make sure that all the data is consistent, and that youre not plugging in some values you got independently into some random internet calculator, and comparing it to old bloodwork that might have different factors involved.

anyway if thats not the case, and your individual values are getting worse, you should take 4-6g astragalus powder (not concentrate pills) per day.

that alone reduced my creatnine from 1.26 to 1.21 in 1 month.

Hey bro I do use a lot of astragalus root since years but so far nothing have changed even on high doses (up to 10/15 grams daily) and even changing brands didn't work.

By the way I do not really rely on Egfr since I know it doesn't take in consideration all those factors but I tested my Cystatin C and is in the high range.

Btw my nephrologist said to do not worry but I don't know if I should really trust.

 

[Eddie.]

Hey bro I do use a lot of astragalus root since years but so far nothing have changed even on high doses (up to 10/15 grams daily) and even changing brands didn't work.

By the way I do not really rely on Egfr since I know it doesn't take in consideration all those factors but I tested my Cystatin C and is in the high range.

Btw my nephrologist said to do not worry but I don't know if I should really trust.

Since we talk about kidneys, which is an organ that once it gets damaged it's somewhat impossible to revert in a good state, i would do whatever i could to prolong its function as much as possible. Go to another doctor and take a second opinion and if you're still confused go to a third one. Just my opinion.

 

[hulk69!!!]

Hey bro I do use a lot of astragalus root since years but so far nothing have changed even on high doses (up to 10/15 grams daily) and even changing brands didn't work.

By the way I do not really rely on Egfr since I know it doesn't take in consideration all those factors but I tested my Cystatin C and is in the high range.

Btw my nephrologist said to do not worry but I don't know if I should really trust.

Use vitamin shoppe astragalus 6-8 grams a day...2 grams with a meal

 

[Tbaz192]

My buddy was on a relatively simple cycle of Test and primo anavar. Ended up in the hospital randomly one night with his kidneys failing.

Did the gear cause it? No way to 100% know.
But his labs came back very bad for his kidneys. Doctors held him for days. Pumped him full of drugs to gain function back.

Luckily he pulled thru gained function back.

Since then he took a break. I Urged him to take astragalus & more supporting supplements. He’s back to normal ranges now.
Still blasting at 40.

 

[egruberman]

My buddy was on a relatively simple cycle of Test and primo anavar. Ended up in the hospital randomly one night with his kidneys failing.

Did the gear cause it? No way to 100% know.

The gear may have triggered a condition that was already present, but we have plenty of anecdotal data to know that a simple cycle of test, primo, and anavar is relatively benign on kidney health, at least in the short term.

 

[explodingHeart]

I did keep my blood pressure perfect during all my cycles and used tren just 2 times and EQ once, orals only twice in my life (now not anymore) and my EGFR is pretty low now around 56, so it seems like my kidneys have been affected somehow.

Now I'm using only Test, Primo and Npp for my cycles and I'm checking my health markers even more often considering I'm aging.

Will be sad to stop all this shit one day due to health issues..

What was your cystatin-c?

And I beg everyone to please stop using creatinine for any measure of kidney function. Unless you take a week off from lifting, t's a worthless lab value.

Finally, calculate your e-gfr using your BODYWEIGHT and cystatin-c.

 

[egruberman]

And I beg everyone to please stop using creatinine for any measure of kidney function. Unless you take a week off from lifting, t's a worthless lab value.

Probably worthwhile to elaborate on this: Heavy resistance training will spike creatinine and cause the average physician to freak out because they are unaware of this fact.

 

[malfeasance]

I think this is a fair assessment

The changes at the more acceptable dosages might not take place over 4 weeks like in this study, but I do think prolonged use of 8iu+ will definitely lead to heart remodeling and increased thickness, just perhaps a bit slower

I bet there is a positive correlation with bankruptcy, too, since the high dose was 16 iu.

We ain't Bill Gates.

 

[malfeasance]

We see left ventricular hypertrophy quite regularly, also in the absence of hypertension. Kidneys we sometimes see decreased eGFR (based on cystatin c) and an increased albumin:creatinine ratio in urine. One of our patients, unfortunately, developed focal segmental glomerulosclerosis during a steroid cycle. He's been off for over a year now, and his eGFR is not showing any improvement (stuck around ~30), despite treatment.

I did keep my blood pressure perfect during all my cycles and used tren just 2 times and EQ once, orals only twice in my life (now not anymore) and my EGFR is pretty low now around 56, so it seems like my kidneys have been affected somehow.

Now I'm using only Test, Primo and Npp for my cycles and I'm checking my health markers even more often considering I'm aging.

Will be sad to stop all this shit one day due to health issues..

Hey bro I do use a lot of astragalus root since years but so far nothing have changed even on high doses (up to 10/15 grams daily) and even changing brands didn't work.

By the way I do not really rely on Egfr since I know it doesn't take in consideration all those factors but I tested my Cystatin C and is in the high range.

Btw my nephrologist said to do not worry but I don't know if I should really trust.

If our Cystatin C is in the high range, then the eGFR is not showing damage to your kidneys.

 

[Eddie.]

My buddy was on a relatively simple cycle of Test and primo anavar. Ended up in the hospital randomly one night with his kidneys failing.

Did the gear cause it? No way to 100% know.
But his labs came back very bad for his kidneys. Doctors held him for days. Pumped him full of drugs to gain function back.

Luckily he pulled thru gained function back.

Since then he took a break. I Urged him to take astragalus & more supporting supplements. He’s back to normal ranges now.
Still blasting at 40.

My kidneys were always perfect despite being obese for a decade and drinking quite much alcohol. Last year i started gear for the first time, this year in February i did a Test+Primo for 11 weeks and added anavar for another 7 weeks, so 18 weeks total.

Just a week before finishing my cycle and return to cruise i started experiencing some discomfort in my kidneys, an acute pain. This thing continued for 3-4 weeks, it happened mostly in from the time i woke up until i return home to eat breakfast after morning cardio. It was like acute lil stabs in the back.

I started searching and realised it happens frequently and it's coming from the anavar. I found some post here in meso of some guys saying they had to drop the anavar due to kidney pain. I did bloodwork and it came back stellar. While running the cycle i had liver and lipid protection but not kidney protection. I just took some astragalus powder from nutricost and honestly i doubt i'll be use anavar again in the future. It would be better to take an oral that screw up a little your liver than like anadrol for example than messing up with your kidneys.