Help for a possible 1st timer (woman)

[Roger rabbit]

Lots of troll try selling it of course. I know many lab subjects that have received excellent results. Your test subjects still need to do some cardio while using the gw product of course. Also don't look into using diuretics. That's a course I wouldn't suggest heading down. Most water retention issues can actually be fixed by drinking more water.

 

[Eman]

What did you think about it? Ive gone through past threads here and im getting mixed reviews. Im skeptical because it seems any good reviews are being accused of selling it

I've used it... It was just OK. I don't recommend it personally. It is only good to use if you are already well conditioned IMO.

 

[Bmae1]

Im going to work on getting myself back on track first. Im just one of those nuts who has to pre plan and research everything

 

[Happycamper]

In one of the posts on this thread it was mentioned that the creatine in c4 causes water retention. I've definitely noticed it. Is that something that will pass or should I try a diuretic? Also, tell me about gw-501516. Was that a legitimate suggestion for down the road? I just did a quick search on it and it looked interesting

You WANT water retention in your muscles! This is what helps you perform in the gym -glycogen in the muscles give you power and allow you to squeeze extra reps out.

Women are so afraid of creatine because they are glued to a # on a scale. The water retention isn't bloating, it's sucking all that water right under your skin that makes you look flabby into your muscles, pumping them up and hydrating them for performance.

Without making gains at the gym, you absolutely cannot transform your body. And making a transformation required a good diet that fuels performance. Hence why everyone always says fitness is a marathon, not a sprint. There are times of surplus and hard, progressive work followed by times of deficit and simple sweating it out. Rinse, repeat. This is bodybuilding and fitness.

Creatine is one of the best supplements, hands down. It will make you heavier on the scale, but it will make you look leaner because the water will be in the muscle rather than other places that will accentuate extra fat.

 

[TANGO.ECHO.KILO]

Creatine is one of the best supplements, hands down. It will make you heavier on the scale, but it will make you look leaner because the water will be in the muscle rather than other places that will accentuate extra fat.

I respectfully disagree.
"Best Supplements" is an oxymoron imo...stay out of GNC and spend the money on food, you will get everything you need from a well balanced diet. Multi-vitamin is a staple, protein powder if you struggle getting the calories in but whole foods are better.

I wish more members posted pics Id be interested to see what all these members look like that are spending big $$$ on peptides, sarms, and otc supplements. Maybe I'm doin this thing all wrong.

 

[achilles87]

I agree, I might drink one protein drink a day maybe two on some days. I don't take any pre workout, sometimes I will have some bcaas while I'm working out.

90% of what I get comes from food anymore. It's just a waste, half the shit you buy you don't even really know what's in it. Supplements are like peds anymore, half of them ain't got anything in them.

 

[Bmae1]

I'm going to stick to the c4 for a little while. At least until I get back to the normal flow. I need that extra bit of energy to keep me motivated. My girls drain the energy out of me lol. Hit the gym hard this week. My entire body hurts. I'm just counting on what they say about muscle memory being true =) going to keep a photo log from this point on out. Once I'm at a comfortable point I'll post pics. I am curious to see everyone elses progress though. How long did take for you to really get to a point you were happy with?

 

[TANGO.ECHO.KILO]

I'm going to stick to the c4 for a little while. At least until I get back to the normal flow. I need that extra bit of energy to keep me motivated. My girls drain the energy out of me lol. Hit the gym hard this week. My entire body hurts. I'm just counting on what they say about muscle memory being true =) going to keep a photo log from this point on out. Once I'm at a comfortable point I'll post pics. I am curious to see everyone elses progress though. How long did take for you to really get to a point you were happy with?

I don't train for aesthetics, so Im constantly chasing performance numbers/goals. I'm comfortable with the way I look though, I think the whole idea for the committed bodybuilder/athlete is realizing its a life long journey. The urge to continue to want to better yourself, while being happy with where you are on the journey as to make sure to enjoy the ride. This goes for many aspects of my life, I like to continue to learn and grow and never stay stagnant.

 

[achilles87]

I'm going to stick to the c4 for a little while. At least until I get back to the normal flow. I need that extra bit of energy to keep me motivated. My girls drain the energy out of me lol. Hit the gym hard this week. My entire body hurts. I'm just counting on what they say about muscle memory being true =) going to keep a photo log from this point on out. Once I'm at a comfortable point I'll post pics. I am curious to see everyone elses progress though. How long did take for you to really get to a point you were happy with?

I been working out on and off for ten years "really 8 took off 2 years like an idiot". I have been from 135 pounds to 235 pounds and all in between lol. I really don't think I'll ever be happy with one look, I'm not cocky about what I have tho. You see some guys want people to worship them lol, I don't think anyone looks that good.

I'm rambling so I'll stop and get to the point. My point is there's always something you wil want to change. If you get hooked you will be doing this the rest of your life... I know I will be.

 

[Thenewera]

I respectfully disagree.
"Best Supplements" is an oxymoron imo...stay out of GNC and spend the money on food, you will get everything you need from a well balanced diet. Multi-vitamin is a staple, protein powder if you struggle getting the calories in but whole foods are better.

I wish more members posted pics Id be interested to see what all these members look like that are spending big $$$ on peptides, sarms, and otc supplements. Maybe I'm doin this thing all wrong.

I can argue to an extent. And I'm not one to really disagree. I have a few staples. Although not the "GNC" let me fuck you over staples. And lmao, I was laughing so hard on page 1. " wanna talk about it? "

Glucosamine HCI 1500mg a day
Arginine dosed around 4-6kg a day
1200mg fish oil morning and pre workout
One daily multivitamin
Vitamin B complex vitamin
Zinc

To the op - research.
Nail your diet first.

I'm sure you've heard that and are sick of it.
There's not a magic blue pill.

 

[Eman]

arginine dosed around 4-6kg

6 kilograms will def help get the pump going.

 

[Thenewera]

6 kilograms will def help get the pump going.

Hahahaha holy shit my bad haha NO NOT 4-6KG
4-6grams !!!! Spread throughout the day!!

1g breakfast
1g later
2g pre workout
1g after
1g bedtime

Or... Be smart and only do like 3 grams.

1g morning
2g pre workout

 

[Happycamper]

I love the discussion

I'm just floored at the disagreement with creatine for lifters. It isn't a GNC snake oil product, it's one of the most researched, proven, and simple performance supplements out there. It's super cheap too.

This is the first lifting circle where I have ever seen any opposition to creatine so I'm interested to say the least. I'm also a powerlifter, so it's all about cranking out as much as I can!

 

[Happycamper]

I've never even been in a GNC before...do they still have brick and mortar stores??

 

[TANGO.ECHO.KILO]

I can argue to an extent. And I'm not one to really disagree. I have a few staples.

Glucosamine HCI 1500mg a day
Arginine dosed around 4-6kg a day
1200mg fish oil morning and pre workout
One daily multivitamin
Vitamin B complex vitamin
Zinc

these are staples though man...good catch though. I guess I was more referring to the most common pitfalls of gym rats. Cell-tech, C4, Ripped Fuel, No-Explode...etc. Hell I dont even know if any of those shiny labels are still relevant lmao. I would take bcaas but these days they put all that shit in protein powder! Last time I looked at the label of a protein bar I was shocked at how much sugar and shit was in there, that stuff is super processed junk!

 

[TANGO.ECHO.KILO]

I love the discussion

I'm just floored at the disagreement with creatine for lifters. It isn't a GNC snake oil product, it's one of the most researched, proven, and simple performance supplements out there. It's super cheap too.

This is the first lifting circle where I have ever seen any opposition to creatine so I'm interested to say the least. I'm also a powerlifter, so it's all about cranking out as much as I can!

Im not opposed to creatine or discounting its effects in the body...

let me ask you this though, do you eat meat?

 

[Thenewera]

these are staples though man...good catch though. I guess I was more referring to the most common pitfalls of gym rats. Cell-tech, C4, Ripped Fuel, No-Explode...etc. Hell I dont even know if any of those shiny labels are still relevant lmao. I would take bcaas but these days they put all that shit in protein powder! Last time I looked at the label of a protein bar I was shocked at how much sugar and shit was in there, that stuff is super processed junk!

Yeah man, I knew what you were meaning. That's why I said to an extent! Just wanted to clear it up a bit for other readers. Don't get me wrong, I'm a pre workout guy.. But I'd rather buy my own citruline malate, arginine, caffeine, and salt.... Boom.
Oh and those protein bars are fucking ridiculous.
I'll take my 5 egg whites and 0 calorie chocolate powder with a dash of milk instead.

....red meat has all the Creatine needed son.

 

[Happycamper]

Im not opposed to creatine or discounting its effects in the body...

let me ask you this though, do you eat meat?

I do. But I also train 7 days a week and you know that those who train for performance go through calories, nutrients, energy and everything at a much quicker rate than the average person. My first 2 weeks taking creatine (I'm not talking preworkout C4, but creatine monohydrate mixed in with water/juice), it was like the rocket boost I got from the var I'm on now. All my lifts went up and I finally broke through a nasty deadlift plateau. All for 12 bucks!

 

[TANGO.ECHO.KILO]

@Happycamper

These foods contain the best source of natural creatine
Experts agree that the best animal source of creatine is wild game, including venison, elk, buffalo, and bison. Game meats also tend to have fewer calories, less saturated fat, and more lean tissue than domestic meats. The next best source is lean, free-range meats which include turkey breast, chicken breast, Cornish hens, lamb and veal. Last is wild-caught fish, which has an average of 1-2 grams ofcreatineper three-ounce serving. Farm-raised fish and animals fed a poor diet have lower levels of creatine.

As stated above, creatine is found in meat or fish and science says that there are no vegetariansources. Therefore, vegetarians have to get enough of the amino acids arginine, glycine, and methionine which are used in production of creatine. Foods rich in arginine are peanuts, walnuts, coconuts, soybeans, chickpeas, and oats. Foods rich in glycine are raw seaweed orhttp://spirulina.naturalnews.com/, raw watercress, spinach, soy protein isolate, and sesame seeds. Brazil nuts, oats, and sunflower seeds are great sources of methionine. It is important to note that vegetarians who get enough of these amino acids through diet still have less stored creatine than non-vegetarians.

The best food sources of muscle-building creatine


...So for someone like @Devika she may have to look at things a little differently.

Creatine Supplementation Trials in Vegetarians

Vegetarians have lower levels of creatine in their blood, urine, and red blood cells (18,21) and muscle tissue (33), and there have been three studies of creatine supplementation in vegetarians that have measured strength or muscle size outcomes:

In a 1997 Belgium study of vegetarians, creatine supplementation did not improve power output (22).

In a 2000 Swedish study, vegetarians and meat-eaters took 7 g of creatine three times a day for six days. The vegetarians and meat-eaters improved their average power output after creatine supplementation, but only the meat-eaters significantly increased their peak power output (18).

A 2003 study from Canada was conducted on 19 vegetarians (including 3 vegans) and 30 non-vegetarians. Participants had been recreational athletes, all with some resistance training but not a lot (33).

For the 7 day loading phase, subjects were given 0.25 g of creatine per kg of lean tissue mass (average of 16.8 g per day). For the 49 day maintenance phase, they were given 0.0625 g per kg of lean tissue mass (average of 4.2 g per day). They were put through an intense weight training routine, focused mostly on the upper body.

Subjects on creatine increased muscle mass more than those receiving placebo, with the vegetarians on creatine increasing most of all (2.4 kg of lean tissue vs. 1.9 kg for non-vegetarians using creatine). The maximum bench press amount increased 15.9 kg for those taking creatine and only 8.7 kg for those taking a placebo. Maximum leg press increases did not vary between the supplementation or diet groups.

Vegetarians on creatine most greatly improved their ability to do work on a knee flexion/extension machine than other groups. Vegetarians had greater increases in muscle concentrations of total creatine and phoshocreatine. Supplemented groups had much higher training volumes. ATP concentrations did not vary among groups.

Based on these three studies, it seems reasonable to conclude that vegetarian weightlifters can improve performance by taking creatine.

Supplementation Phases

The loading phase for vegetarians and non-vegetarians is probably similar, because their dietary intake is negligible compared to the amounts supplemented. However, because the average meat-eater consumes 1-2 g of creatine a day, 30 percent of which is destroyed by cooking (23), the maintenance phase for vegetarians may need to be as high as 3.4 g/day.

Consuming powdered creatine with a sugar solution, such as a sports drink or fruit juice, increases the rate at which muscles absorb the creatine (17).

Supplement companies say that creatine supplements are made without using animal derivatives (24).

http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/weightlifting#supp

 

[Happycamper]

@Happycamper

These foods contain the best source of natural creatine
Experts agree that the best animal source of creatine is wild game, including venison, elk, buffalo, and bison. Game meats also tend to have fewer calories, less saturated fat, and more lean tissue than domestic meats. The next best source is lean, free-range meats which include turkey breast, chicken breast, Cornish hens, lamb and veal. Last is wild-caught fish, which has an average of 1-2 grams ofcreatineper three-ounce serving. Farm-raised fish and animals fed a poor diet have lower levels of creatine.

As stated above, creatine is found in meat or fish and science says that there are no vegetariansources. Therefore, vegetarians have to get enough of the amino acids arginine, glycine, and methionine which are used in production of creatine. Foods rich in arginine are peanuts, walnuts, coconuts, soybeans, chickpeas, and oats. Foods rich in glycine are raw seaweed orhttp://spirulina.naturalnews.com/, raw watercress, spinach, soy protein isolate, and sesame seeds. Brazil nuts, oats, and sunflower seeds are great sources of methionine. It is important to note that vegetarians who get enough of these amino acids through diet still have less stored creatine than non-vegetarians.

The best food sources of muscle-building creatine


...So for someone like @Devika she may have to look at things a little differently.

Creatine Supplementation Trials in Vegetarians

Vegetarians have lower levels of creatine in their blood, urine, and red blood cells (18,21) and muscle tissue (33), and there have been three studies of creatine supplementation in vegetarians that have measured strength or muscle size outcomes:

In a 1997 Belgium study of vegetarians, creatine supplementation did not improve power output (22).

In a 2000 Swedish study, vegetarians and meat-eaters took 7 g of creatine three times a day for six days. The vegetarians and meat-eaters improved their average power output after creatine supplementation, but only the meat-eaters significantly increased their peak power output (18).

A 2003 study from Canada was conducted on 19 vegetarians (including 3 vegans) and 30 non-vegetarians. Participants had been recreational athletes, all with some resistance training but not a lot (33).

For the 7 day loading phase, subjects were given 0.25 g of creatine per kg of lean tissue mass (average of 16.8 g per day). For the 49 day maintenance phase, they were given 0.0625 g per kg of lean tissue mass (average of 4.2 g per day). They were put through an intense weight training routine, focused mostly on the upper body.

Subjects on creatine increased muscle mass more than those receiving placebo, with the vegetarians on creatine increasing most of all (2.4 kg of lean tissue vs. 1.9 kg for non-vegetarians using creatine). The maximum bench press amount increased 15.9 kg for those taking creatine and only 8.7 kg for those taking a placebo. Maximum leg press increases did not vary between the supplementation or diet groups.

Vegetarians on creatine most greatly improved their ability to do work on a knee flexion/extension machine than other groups. Vegetarians had greater increases in muscle concentrations of total creatine and phoshocreatine. Supplemented groups had much higher training volumes. ATP concentrations did not vary among groups.

Based on these three studies, it seems reasonable to conclude that vegetarian weightlifters can improve performance by taking creatine.

Supplementation Phases

The loading phase for vegetarians and non-vegetarians is probably similar, because their dietary intake is negligible compared to the amounts supplemented. However, because the average meat-eater consumes 1-2 g of creatine a day, 30 percent of which is destroyed by cooking (23), the maintenance phase for vegetarians may need to be as high as 3.4 g/day.

Consuming powdered creatine with a sugar solution, such as a sports drink or fruit juice, increases the rate at which muscles absorb the creatine (17).

Supplement companies say that creatine supplements are made without using animal derivatives (24).

http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/weightlifting#supp

Lol. Thank you. Doesn't deter me from my extra creatine supplentation though.