Perrin Aybara's Journey to an Elite Powerlifting Total

[Perrin Aybara]

Weight was 209lbs

Squat 5x5 with 390
Box squat with wraps 470x1

Called it at this point because my upper back was hurting too badly. It hurt pretty bad from the start, but there was no way I was going to skip my 5x5. I unracked 470 for a second set and immediately put it back because I could tell how much it was going to hurt.

 

[RodgerThat]

Weight was 209lbs

Squat 5x5 with 390
Box squat with wraps 470x1

Called it at this point because my upper back was hurting too badly. It hurt pretty bad from the start, but there was no way I was going to skip my 5x5. I unracked 470 for a second set and immediately put it back because I could tell how much it was going to hurt.

Any chance you could pin point this pain? Is it more medial or lateral? What level of upper back? Shoulder blade level? Above shoulder blade? Below? Any shifting or popping noises when it hurts?

 

[Perrin Aybara]

@RodgerThat



It's in this area, like near the bottom of the lat and armpit area. The pain from squats isn't the same as the pain from deadlift. Squats hurt it more like it hurts just from jarring it suddenly, although racking the bar hurts when the pressure of the weight comes off.

No shifting or popping. Lateral and below shoulder blade level. Nowhere near the spine at least.

 

[RodgerThat]

If it's right there I would say that you've fucked with your teres major muscle, possibly pulled or even torn due to how much discomfort you have. Especially since it's pain when deadlifting as it's a contributing muscle to holding your humorous stable and pulling your last down and back crossing to just under the distal lateral portion of your scapula. They way you deadlift with how you have dropped shoulders is probably the cause as it will hyperextend the teres major without a high level of muscular elastisity and flexibility

 

[Perrin Aybara]

If it's right there I would say that you've fucked with your teres major muscle, possibly pulled or even torn due to how much discomfort you have. Especially since it's pain when deadlifting as it's a contributing muscle to holding your humorous stable and pulling your last down and back crossing to just under the distal lateral portion of your scapula. They way you deadlift with how you have dropped shoulders is probably the cause as it will hyperextend the teres major without a high level of muscular elastisity and flexibility

I was just talking about the shoulders thing with someone the other day. I've written up a routine for the next few months that will include more upper back work. I figured a little more time off deadlift and then start back with lower frequency and lighter weight and work back up with a more shoulders back stance.

Is there really anything a doctor would be able to do that time off wouldn't do? I ask because even with the better insurance I'll have next year it could still potentially cost me more than I can really afford to see a doctor if they start wanting to run tests. I already have an appointment for something else in January that's going to cost a week's pay or more.

 

[RodgerThat]

I was just talking about the shoulders thing with someone the other day. I've written up a routine for the next few months that will include more upper back work. I figured a little more time off deadlift and then start back with lower frequency and lighter weight and work back up with a more shoulders back stance.

Is there really anything a doctor would be able to do that time off wouldn't do? I ask because even with the better insurance I'll have next year it could still potentially cost me more than I can really afford to see a doctor if they start wanting to run tests. I already have an appointment for something else in January that's going to cost a week's pay or more.

Fuck I hate murican health for reasons like this but yes and no. If it's a true grade 3 tear which I don't believe it is as the pain got better with time correct? But if it was grade 3 it's surgery to repair. If it's a grade 2 tear depending on savarity a doctor could help but time does too just would be longer without a doctor. If it's a grade 1 which from what I know about you and the mechanism and such that's my best guess and I'm not a doctor nor do I have a MRI helping but I see tears and such all the time so I'm half decent at guessing. I'd reccomend 6-8 weeks not doing the aggregating movement then 2-4 weeks working on foam rolling and stretching it to make it more elasticized and prevent it from constantly reaccuring because it will if you don't mobilize it post recovery as it is stupidly stiff from scaring tissue and non use so to jump right back to the aggravating movement will do exactly what happened to you this time around. Time alone isn't going to help with all of it but once the pains dissipated start foam rolling and stretching and do that daily for a couple weeks to remobolize it.

If it were me and money is tight that's what I would do but if come week 6 the pain isn't signficantly less or eliminated then a doctor you'd need

 

[Eman]

I've written up a routine for the next few months that will include more upper back work.

It's rowin' time baby.

I'd love seeing you hit wide grip seated cable rows. I think it'll really work that area that's getting pulled on when you're deadlifting. Narrow pulldowns would be another good one.

 

[Perrin Aybara]

Fuck I hate murican health for reasons like this but yes and no. If it's a true grade 3 tear which I don't believe it is as the pain got better with time correct? But if it was grade 3 it's surgery to repair. If it's a grade 2 tear depending on savarity a doctor could help but time does too just would be longer without a doctor. If it's a grade 1 which from what I know about you and the mechanism and such that's my best guess and I'm not a doctor nor do I have a MRI helping but I see tears and such all the time so I'm half decent at guessing. I'd reccomend 6-8 weeks not doing the aggregating movement then 2-4 weeks working on foam rolling and stretching it to make it more elasticized and prevent it from constantly reaccuring because it will if you don't mobilize it post recovery as it is stupidly stiff from scaring tissue and non use so to jump right back to the aggravating movement will do exactly what happened to you this time around. Time alone isn't going to help with all of it but once the pains dissipated start foam rolling and stretching and do that daily for a couple weeks to remobolize it.

If it were me and money is tight that's what I would do but if come week 6 the pain isn't signficantly less or eliminated then a doctor you'd need

Yeah, our system sucks unless you have plenty of money or no money. For guys like me that don't make much money, but make enough we have to buy our own insurance it's rough. Plus with zero paid days off a year it makes a doctor's appointment cost even more.

Well, the pain is significantly less every day. The first two days it hurt even from the impact of walking. Today it wasn't really noticeable until I started doing squats. The last couple times this happened after a week there was no pain, but if I did deadlift or anything like it it would be right back.

It's rowin' time baby.

I'd love seeing you hit wide grip seated cable rows. I think it'll really work that area that's getting pulled on when you're deadlifting. Narrow pulldowns would be another good one.

I was gonna run my planned routine by you and see what you thought about some upper back work. I'm planning on swapping my third deadlift slot with some kind of upper back circuit with 2-3 exercises.

 

[Eman]

I was gonna run my planned routine by you and see what you thought about some upper back work. I'm planning on swapping my third deadlift slot with some kind of upper back circuit with 2-3 exercises.

Feel free bud. I'm already looking forward to your next meet.

I do think the wide grips on a cable machine would be really helpful for that area that's bugging you. You have a little more freedom to contract the area you're focusing on compared to barbell... I've really never been a big fan of dumbbell rows. I start by pulling low and finish high by flexing my traps.

Narrow grip rows would be good to tie into the muscles a little further down and help build the base further.

Some kind of pullover movement might be something to think about too... I think it could help bring some carryover into your stability and help you brace better when you pull the slack out of the bar. Just spitballing on this one...

 

[Perrin Aybara]

Feel free bud. I'm already looking forward to your next meet.

I do think the wide grips on a cable machine would be really helpful for that area that's bugging you. You have a little more freedom to contract the area you're focusing on compared to barbell... I've really never been a big fan of dumbbell rows. I start by pulling low and finish high by flexing my traps.

Narrow grip rows would be good to tie into the muscles a little further down and help build the base further.

Some kind of pullover movement might be something to think about too... I think it could help bring some carryover into your stability and help you brace better when you pull the slack out of the bar. Just spitballing on this one...

Just PM'd you. Yeah, rows are something I've done very little of since I moved from bro style powerlifting to the style of powerlifting I'm doing now. Maybe I've developed a weakness or something.

Will definitely have the room to fit some in now once the pain settles a bit. Last time I couldn't do any row type motion for a month or so after the initial injury.

 

[taco33150]

I hurt that same area doing wide pull downs.. I just stopped doing them for awhile and it came back cause I didn't let it heal long enough.. let heal a month and just took it easy from there..

 

[Perrin Aybara]

I hurt that same area doing wide pull downs.. I just stopped doing them for awhile and it came back cause I didn't let it heal long enough.. let heal a month and just took it easy from there..

I did some chin ups today with no pain. Weird because that's right where it hurts is around the lat.

 

[Perrin Aybara]

Weight was 211lbs

Weighted chin ups 5x10 with +25
Hamstring curls 5x10 with 240
Weighted dips 3x10 with +90
Hammer curls 3x10 with 35's
Adductors with bands 3x20
Abductors with bands 3x20

 

[GearGodess]

So we won't derail WP's thread any more, I'll quote you in mine.

What I have is injectable, is the dosing about the same as with the oral? I've never done adrol, var or mast to compare it to, but if it'll bring the strength gains without putting water weight on it's perfect. I'm doing a national powerlifting meet in July and I will need to make weight.

Also, do you know if liver toxicity is a concern with the injectable? What I mean is would running a low dose oral with it be a bad idea? I'll be running test and tren for sure with TNE and halo on meet day and a few heavy days leading up to that. Not sure yet what else I'll be running.

Sorry I didn't reply on Friday and I got super busy yesterday... I typically stay off forums on weekends. Well, very rare that I am online then. lol

Anyway, I would start with 5-10mg per day. You can easily run it between 4-6 weeks and some even push it to 8 weeks. It all depends on how you respond to it. I personally stick to a 6 weeks max and so do most of the guys I work with. It's plenty. Sdrol is very different and actually pretty awesome... well, if you like to wake up dry looking, hard and very vascular and abs popping with great recovery. It doesn't aromatize either. I find that sdrol is incredible with the look it gives you in a short run. You can use sdrol in both a bulk and a cut. It will add lean mass but also preserve it if you are running during a caloric deficit. I think it's very complimentary to tren or deca. The strength you get from it is pretty quick and awesome. The fact that you will add on lean mass fairly quickly, but also keep fat gain to a minimum (obviously diet plays a key role) is pretty great. Your recovery will be great on it too as well as endurance where you will feel you can keep going hard in the gym. At least that's what I found.

As for toxicity of it. In oral form, it's just like anything else in my opinion. Just avoid alcohol when on it just as you should with other AAS. If you have liver issues, make sure you are using a liver supplement. Also, sticking to the average 10-20mg dose should be fine. I think you may get yourself in feeling a bit shitty once you enter the 30mg or higher territory which IMO is totally unnecessary. As for the injectable, it is gentler on your liver but again, be smart about it.

Hope that gives you an idea...

 

[Perrin Aybara]

Sorry I didn't reply on Friday and I got super busy yesterday... I typically stay off forums on weekends. Well, very rare that I am online then. lol

Anyway, I would start with 5-10mg per day. You can easily run it between 4-6 weeks and some even push it to 8 weeks. It all depends on how you respond to it. I personally stick to a 6 weeks max and so do most of the guys I work with. It's plenty. Sdrol is very different and actually pretty awesome... well, if you like to wake up dry looking, hard and very vascular and abs popping with great recovery. It doesn't aromatize either. I find that sdrol is incredible with the look it gives you in a short run. You can use sdrol in both a bulk and a cut. It will add lean mass but also preserve it if you are running during a caloric deficit. I think it's very complimentary to tren or deca. The strength you get from it is pretty quick and awesome. The fact that you will add on lean mass fairly quickly, but also keep fat gain to a minimum (obviously diet plays a key role) is pretty great. Your recovery will be great on it too as well as endurance where you will feel you can keep going hard in the gym. At least that's what I found.

As for toxicity of it. In oral form, it's just like anything else in my opinion. Just avoid alcohol when on it just as you should with other AAS. If you have liver issues, make sure you are using a liver supplement. Also, sticking to the average 10-20mg dose should be fine. I think you may get yourself in feeling a bit shitty once you enter the 30mg or higher territory which IMO is totally unnecessary. As for the injectable, it is gentler on your liver but again, be smart about it.

Hope that gives you an idea...

Thanks for the detailed response, GG. I'll start low like you said and run it either the last four or six weeks. I don't want to have to drop it before the meet, so I'll have to think about whether to try six or be safe with four. I'll have to make weight, so diet will be dialed in for that. Thanks again for the input.

 

[GearGodess]

Thanks for the detailed response, GG. I'll start low like you said and run it either the last four or six weeks. I don't want to have to drop it before the meet, so I'll have to think about whether to try six or be safe with four. I'll have to make weight, so diet will be dialed in for that. Thanks again for the input.

Then sounds as sdrol could be a perfect match for what you need then! You will have strength and preserve muscle with sdrol so you can cut in confidence as it will work awesome in a deficit!

 

[Perrin Aybara]

Then sounds as sdrol could be a perfect match for what you need then! You will have strength and preserve muscle with sdrol so you can cut in confidence as it will work awesome in a deficit!

Nice. Ideally I'll lean bulk to maybe 7lbs or so over my weight class by the time I'm a few weeks out. Then just go low carb for a week or two and shed some water weight before weighing in. Weigh in 24 hours early and put on 10+ pounds that day with some serious carb loading, lol. It should have a chance to do a little building and a little preserving.

The reason I'd really like to push for six weeks is the last month will be very low volume training in order to peak for the meet. The last week a deload only. I'd like to get it in my system for some of my last heavy training weeks to let it do its thing.

 

[theprodgicalson]

@Perrin Aybara maybe add in some horizontal pulls. i see you always do chins, but maybe add in some wide grip cable rows like @Eman suggested. works different portions of the back. just my thoughts.

my plan is after this meet is to add some serious mass to my upper back and quads. really going to hammer those two areas are a few months a couple times a week.

 

[Perrin Aybara]

@Perrin Aybara maybe add in some horizontal pulls. i see you always do chins, but maybe add in some wide grip cable rows like @Eman suggested. works different portions of the back. just my thoughts.

my plan is after this meet is to add some serious mass to my upper back and quads. really going to hammer those two areas are a few months a couple times a week.

That's actually the plan. I've swapped a few things around and put in an upper back day on today actually after good mornings and Slingshot bench. I'm not sure this injury has healed enough I can do rows yet, but I'm going to start light and see.

I could really use some mass in those two places, too. I'm all lats and hamstrings, not much upper back and quads. What's your plan on quads, front squats or high bar squats?

 

[theprodgicalson]

That's actually the plan. I've swapped a few things around and put in an upper back day on today actually after good mornings and Slingshot bench. I'm not sure this injury has healed enough I can do rows yet, but I'm going to start light and see.

I could really use some mass in those two places, too. I'm all lats and hamstrings, not much upper back and quads. What's your plan on quads, front squats or high bar squats?

Id try cable/machine rows first before doing any type of barbell/DB row. maybe try to use some bands on the cable machine so that at the stretch portion there isn't such a great pull on the muscle but at peak contraction your getting heavy weight? just some thoughts.

my plan for quads is front squats, pit shark and hack squats galore. my gym has a really good hack squat machine that makes my quads tremble. the angle of it is perfect. ill also throw in some light leg extensions at the end to just get blood pumping to the quads and flush them out.