Secret Sources, the SCOC and the Steroid Underground

[xgunx]

LMAO thats a great idea

 

[Dr JIM]

I don't know whether secret sourcing is prevalent on Meso at the moment or not but what I do know is the perception members have for what the underground forum is supposed to be has slowly changed for the worse. For all intents and purposes, it's now viewed by too many as a source forum rather than a forum to discuss sources.

I think most of the blame for both of these problems can be placed on the SCOC for a couple of reasons.

First, the trend over the last year or so has been for members, particularly the newer ones, to use Meso primarily as a source forum because that is how they perceive it. We may tell new members that Meso isn't a source forum; that its purpose is to give them an uncensored forum where they can discuss sources. But when they see WKMs referring new sources to the SCOC, what are they to think? Why have a SCOC if Meso isn't a source forum? Due to the illegal nature of AAS and the need for discretion, when inexperienced members are told Meso isn't a source forum and then see sources being asked to comply with the SCOC, I suspect what they actually hear is "Meso isn't a source forum, wink, wink." When these junior members become senior members, the cycle will continue.

Secondly, rather than being used as a tool to vet sources, the SCOC is forcing sources into selling secretly. There's no question about that and we've already seen evidence that this is happening.

IMO, it's time to abandon the SCOC. It has failed to serve its purpose and it's causing more harm than good.

Regarding the perception that this is a source forum, how do we change it? I've seen some calling to rid Meso of all sources. Personally, I don't think we need to go that far. I don't have an issue with members having direct access to *established* sources on Meso - and by established I mean sources that have been around longer than a couple of years. Being established isn't a guarantee of quality as we've seen recently, but the odds of getting scammed outright are far lower.

What I think needs to change is the idea that these start-up bathtub brewers who have no experience and are only here because they managed to score a bag of powder and now think they're going to be the next drug kingpin deserve a shot. They don't deserve a shot. And that includes any members that might have started brewing and "secretly" selling. Start-ups are the kind of source the SCOC was designed to vet, the kind most likely to sell bunk gear, and the kind most likely to take the money and run. They have no business being here. They are using/abusing Meso's underground because it's free. With nothing invested, they have nothing to lose. And with nothing to lose, there's nothing to stop them from running off with your money.

What's even worse than the start-ups are the members (who should know better) that say these clowns should be given a chance because "someone has to try them." Well, no. No one has to try them. And no one should try them. Why members would even consider using high-risk start-up sources is beyond me. It's not just a question of being scammed, you're putting your health in jeopardy. And for what? A source who will be long gone in less than 6 months?

As far as I'm concerned, the SCOC is redundant. It was designed to give *non-viable* sources a chance they neither deserve, nor should get. It serves no purpose other than creating the impression that Meso is a source forum. In short, it's dragging the underground down.

The underground is an invaluable resource for members when used as intended. Allowing these clowns here is going to destroy it. It's time for members to stop fucking around and start thinking about the greater good. It's not about you finding a source. It was never about that.

Regards

CBS

With deference CBS, the purpose of the SOCS is to expose the capabilities of those new sources selling AAS and using those criteria as guidelines for members to use to evaluate sources on a more objective basis THEMSELVES.

The source code is not causing these unscrupulous dirt balls into using PMs only, that's where they all go when exposed bc they have no alternative.

And members have been warned NOT to deal with PM vendors on multiple occasions.

If you are suggesting the SCOC is to be eliminated than what would it be replaced with, bc in my mind it has benefited Meso members much more than harmed them!

Regs
Jim

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

@Millard Baker can we post dick pics in new source threads? That will work- nobody will go in there!

Would you mind if I posted the ones you PM'ed me last week

Wait for the answer from millard- I would hate for anyone to be banned because of magnificent penis.

 

[bigtymer0485]

In no way am I against what the "Awesome Members" are suggesting.lol I thought that Meso was trying to set a new standard for UGL. For example look at MS. He had been in business for a decade and with in 6 months the members here at Meso tested and found his gear to be shit and now his reputation is shot. I hate it for all parties involved that they had to be the quinnie pigs .I truly am sorry that they had to go through that but EVERYONE that goes through online drug dealers deals with this sooner or later. But with MS the reason all this happened is because we didn't make him follow the scoc. If the members would have done him like GEARLINE is being done then we would have know that his gear was shit before members even started buying.
I hear what y'all are saying. Every thursday. lol We get a new source pop up. But our members and scoc protect us. Look at what happened to Raccoon.
I also saw where it was posted on Astro's thread that he can no longer source here. I thought that we were for LONG time sources being good to sell here? I hate that it seems that we are going to let sources like Astro source behind closed doors and not in the open. How will we hold him accountable?
Anyways, I except what ever verdict that y'all decide.

yeah and if you contact him on here through pm he refers you to his board so like astron im stayin away and gonna keep my go to for now on pm if have any questions . and if this post is useless o well im just giving my two cents

 

[Masters Power]

@Millard Baker can we post dick pics in new source threads? That will work- nobody will go in there!

What??? I'm pretty sure Karl spends half his day looking at them.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

With deference CBS, the purpose of the SOCS is to expose the capabilities of those new sources selling AAS and using those criteria as guidelines for members to use to evaluate sources on a more objective basis THEMSELVES.

The source code is not causing these unscrupulous dirt balls into using PMs only, that's where they all go when exposed bc they have no alternative.

And members have been warned NOT to deal with PM vendors on multiple occasions.

If you are suggesting the SCOC is to be eliminated than what would it be replaced with, bc in my mind it has benefited Meso members much more than harmed them!

Regs
Jim

I am suggesting the SCOC has done NOTHING to "benefit" members precisely because it was designed to vet "NEW sources selling AAS" - sources with NO HISTORY, and of whom you yourself have stated numerous times that nobody should be using because they are too risky.

For proof, look no further than the fact that not a single one of those new sources have lasted longer than 6 months, often less than 3 months, before scamming, selling bunk or self-destructing before our very eyes. The only exception has Astro, but Astro was here long before the SCOC and there's no reason to believe he won't fail eventually - he's currently MIA in the face of some serious issues.

The SCOC was never enforceable and many sources simply ignored it and sourced anyway. In the 8 or 9 months the SCOC has been in existence, I believe only one, or possibly two sources met the requirements, and both of those sources failed miserably.

The SCOC has done harm by creating a false sense of security that's given members the impression that they can minimize the risk of dealing with HIGH-RISK sources. Even worse, the SCOC has encouraged more of the above noted sources to come to Meso, believing they too will be given a chance to sell their wares.

I don't believe the SCOC should be replaced with anything because those sources aren't viable. Therefore, the SCOC is redundant. The solution is for senior members to refrain from using start-up sources and convince new members that those sources are not worth the risk.

Meso members deserve better than what they're getting. The SCOC bears a large part of the blame for that.

 

[Moose]

@Millard Baker can we post dick pics in new source threads? That will work- nobody will go in there!

Tiff might go there.

 

[pumpingiron22]

No scoc. We need to teach members to ask wise questions.

 

[MoriorInvictus]

There has been some discussion in another thread that I think belongs here.

Will this "New Direction" that everyone is pushing for be put to vote? Or will certain members simply choose to enforce their perception of how the board should be run? The reason I ask is because I believe not everyone is for this change and those members should be allowed to speak their minds without fear of rebuke.

Now me personally I don't really care, but I have seen how some people on here throw their weight around by using harsh language and bullying tactics to get their way and that’s fine by me when there is good purpose behind those actions. It's when changes like this that occur that those same people apply those learned behaviors towards the members in this forum that disagree with them. That I am not OK with!!

There should be an anonymous voting system for these changes before members start enforcing their own self-declared "rules". But before a vote can be done there has to be a new thread that clearly defines what is allowed in the underground forum and what isn't.

Again just my 2 cents....

 

[brutus79]

Tiff might go there.

And that weird guy hardbodygirl

 

[Millard]

purpose of the SOCS is to expose the capabilities of those new sources selling AAS and using those criteria as guidelines for members to use to evaluate sources on a more objective basis THEMSELVES

Then it should be reworded and revised and called a Member Code of Conduct.

Because right now it is a Source Code of Conduct that provides criteria as guidelines for sources to use to gain permission to sell steroids on the forum.

If you want a Source Code of Conduct, it shouldn't be much more than this:

"Sources are allowed to answer member questions and nothing else."

If you want a list of questions to help members evaluate a source, then target it to the actual members and call it Member Code of Conduct.

 

[pumpingiron22]

^^^^Yes Yes and Yes!

 

[Fckit]

I haven't weighed in on this yet, but it seems most everyone agrees Meso is not meant to be a source board. On the same token, without some form of censorship, they will be here. Meso doesn't cost anything and there are PLENTY of mouths to feed, simple supply and demand. So point #1, sources will remain on Meso. No point in continuing to beat that dead horse. Millard's vision for this board doesn't allow for regulation of these sources.

Second, the SCOC was a pioneer of AAS boards and is pure in intent. However, I do agree that it almost is a "here is a key to our front door" if you oblige perception. We've learned that ALL sources go to shit when actually held accountable. Like Brutus said, our expansion of blood work and confirmation is what has everyone feeling depressed about sources because we're learning the truth. But in actuality, this is a good thing. Meso will force an evolution of the UG market and sourcing. More members will come to Meso (hopefully the more intelligent types) through our due diligence and honesty I believe.

So, in closing, let's do what we did before the SCOC and run these fuckers off. I don't care how resilient of a source you are, when Brutus is continually telling you he is going to ram his dick in your mom's nose, eventually they'll get fed up. I believe more informative threads discussing and reaffirming to NOT look for a source on Meso, but helpful instruction on other options is the answer. Eventually, we will educate our relative morons and maybe sources will know Meso is not the place to set up shop. It will also require our WKM to abide by the 'rules' for the good of the board and not accept freebies, or give the go ahead on sources.

 

[pumpingiron22]

We need to educate Members to make and ask educated questions and decisions.

 

[brutus79]

There has been some discussion in another thread that I think belongs here.

Will this "New Direction" that everyone is pushing for be put to vote? Or will certain members simply choose to enforce their perception of how the board should be run? The reason I ask is because I believe not everyone is for this change and those members should be allowed to speak their minds without fear of rebuke.

Now me personally I don't really care, but I have seen how some people on here throw their weight around by using harsh language and bullying tactics to get their way and that’s fine by me when there is good purpose behind those actions. It's when changes like this that occur that those same people apply those learned behaviors towards the members in this forum that disagree with them. That I am not OK with!!

There should be an anonymous voting system for these changes before members start enforcing their own self-declared "rules". But before a vote can be done there has to be a new thread that clearly defines what is allowed in the underground forum and what isn't.

Again just my 2 cents....

Jesus christ- start a fucking thread with a poll! I hate to single you out, but there hasnt been a whole lot of discussion about WHAT to do... more about what is wrong and what NOT TO DO.

Ok- what are our choices?
Spam source threads new and old with nasty shit until they leave, start a source feedback thread and have more harm reduction centered conversation. Bloods, labmax, mass spec important

Or

Don't spam existing sources... they can live or die on the current rule set and spam the new ones (bad because we look like we are endorsing the existing ones

Or

Buy from private sources on pm (kidding)

Should we start a MEMBER CODE OF CONDUCT? No free samples? No dick riding? What would people do if they couldn't dick ride source threads?

Or

Just keep talking about bullshit and whining about well known member being gone or whatever and nothing will change- which is what we are doing. Thoughts? I'm at work or I would make the thread... quarter end push. If nobody takes initiative I w ill do it and throw around my weight and call everyone lazy fucking retards or whatever you said in your op I quoted.

 

[brutus79]

Then it should be reworded and revised and called a Member Code of Conduct.

Because right now it is a Source Code of Conduct that provides criteria as guidelines for sources to use to gain permission to sell steroids on the forum.

If you want a Source Code of Conduct, it shouldn't be much more than this:

"Sources are allowed to answer member questions and nothing else."

If you want a list of questions to help members evaluate a source, then target it to the actual members and call it Member Code of Conduct.

You beat me to it by seconds... my tendency to be verbally excessive burns me again.

 

[Millard]

If I may, as soon as the SCOC was developed(obviously with good intentions), it was an INVITE in their eyes, as sources go. Get all my ducks in a row, meet the criteria that is specified within the SCOC to Meso, now I can source here. It was inevitable. New sources were cattled to the SCOC daily.

Intentionally or unintentionally, it became the source's how-to guide of selling steroids on MESO.

 

[Big_paul]

Ok you changed your avi . I completely apologize to dmt31i could of been off base and uncalled for. Your avatars change speaks volumes as far as solidarity is co concerned. Look if We all don't play for the same team we are screwed. Ok I am out of the underground at least to the new year class of 2013 has tried. Looking forward to reading what you guys want to do with place.

Really think it's that easy?

 

[MoriorInvictus]

Jesus christ- start a fucking thread with a poll! I hate to single you out, but there hasnt been a whole lot of discussion about WHAT to do... more about what is wrong and what NOT TO DO.

Ok- what are our choices?
Spam source threads new and old with nasty shit until they leave, start a source feedback thread and have more harm reduction centered conversation. Bloods, labmax, mass spec important

Or

Don't spam existing sources... they can live or die on the current rule set and spam the new ones (bad because we look like we are endorsing the existing ones

Or

Buy from private sources on pm (kidding)

Should we start a MEMBER CODE OF CONDUCT? No free samples? No dick riding? What would people do if they couldn't dick ride source threads?

Or

Just keep talking about bullshit and whining about well known member being gone or whatever and nothing will change- which is what we are doing. Thoughts? I'm at work or I would make the thread... quarter end push. If nobody takes initiative I w ill do it and throw around my weight and call everyone lazy fucking retards or whatever you said in your op I quoted.

I don't mind being called out on the carpet. I wouldn't have posted if I was....

What you may not be seeing (or maybe you are) but people are already slamming SRC's and telling them to get lost. As Dr.Jim has pointed out the SCOC did do a lot of good and was pure in its intent. It was one of the reasons I joined this forum. I viewed it as a place where like minded people who use AAS can stand together to make sure that all of these suppliers out there cannot continue to fuck us! As they have done for many years.

I'm at work as well or I would apply more effort to provide some kind of concise input. I like the Member code of conduct idea but again the minority should not make all of the decisions.

 

[Abuckeye]

Great idea about the poll Brutus. I would like to see what the numbers are. CBS since you are the Member who started this discussion would you create a poll if you felt so inclined. You seem to have a lot of knowledge on both sides and could create the positions for everyone to vote on.