Went from eating 1500 calories and weighing 174 to eating about 2500 calories which brought
Me up to 193. I’m not saying a lot of it isn’t water but most of it is diet. Magic? Nah dude... just diet and work
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
[Source] Sasquatch Labs - Intro/Sale (US Domestic)
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Me up to 193. I’m not saying a lot of it isn’t water but most of it is diet. Magic? Nah dude... just diet and work
Horimono
Well-known Member
You just stated “17lbs of lean muscle”. Now your saying “I’m not saying a lot of it isn’t water”.
Which is it? (Rhetorical question not needing an answer). I hate when people say they are gaining more lean muscle than they actually are. I thinks it’s a bad misinterpretation of what can be accomplished while on gear. Not good for newbies to read that, IMO. Then they get disappointed and increase the drugs they are taking when more drugs aren’t the answer. They have unrealistic expectations.
Lol take it easy bro. I still have visible abs and am vascular... I know what my
Gains are. Sorry if you don’t have the same type of gains. Obviously some of the gains from test is glyco gains. If you aren’t gaining 15 lbs you are probably doing something wrong. Just my .02.
Jackreature
New Member
The eGFR is an issue, brother. I saw you said you stopped the winny but you need to get another blood test done about 4 weeks after stopping the winny. If it hasn't bounced back to normal you need to stop all drugs and immediately see a doctor for a referral to a nephrologist. You may be developing kidney disease if those numbers don't bounce right back once the winny is removed.
Also, I just want to say, if you ARE gaining 15 lbs per cycle that you hold on to post PCT then you need to compete because those are ABSURD, Kevin Levrone-style gear response genetics. Either that or you, along with the majority of us, are prone to exaggerating your muscular gains and minimizing your BF and water gain. I'm 100% guilty of that crime myself so please don't take it personally!
heavylifter87
Member
Definitely check up to see GFR in 1-2 months . Drink Lots of water BUT also get in your electrolytes , magnesium potassium calcium and your sodium . No drinking no orals and see if that bounces back up. At 31 it should be in the 70s or 80s
Thanks for the feedback. I read somewhere that the eFGR is based on the creatinine level. Are these blood works accurate? Paperwork taken from privayemdlabs and work done and labscorp.
Thanks man. I don’t understand how it dropped so low since I wasn’t taking any orals. Just Test surely doesn’t cause this drop. I’m probably going to go back and get another test. Just checking my kidney and liver functions.
Jackreature
New Member
I am not home right now so let me look at your entire blood work when I’m home. I only glanced quickly when I saw eGFR brought up. A quick response would simply be that, yes Creatinine will rise as eGFR falls since creatinine is a measure of toxic material in the blood so as your kidneys begin to lose their ability to filter appropriately your blood becomes increasingly toxic.
Thank you for helping. I really do appreciate it. Would it affect the results if I worked out before they drew blood?
Roger rabbit
Well-known Member
They are accurate.
More than likely you took the test while being dehydrated.
As for The Who suggested to up your electrolytes that is spot on advice.
Lots of Water. And get those electrolytes in.
Will do. Thank you Roger rabbit. Do you agree that I should stop the winny?
Roger rabbit
Well-known Member
Yes, please stop for sure.
You only get so many kidneys, the little gains you could achieve from winny isn’t worth the risk.
Again, everything in life is risk vs reward. Always choose in favor of reward.
mdhx3
Banned
The eGFR based on serum creatinine is reasonably accurate for most people. Those for whom it is not accurate are people with large muscle mass, or those who did strenuous activity in close chronological proximity to having the sample drawn. Since serum creatinine is a very good indicator of skeletal muscle mass and breakdown of skeletal muscle (in the absence of renal failure) it can be assumed that you have a pretty good lean muscle mass, or just worked out pretty hard. I can't read your BUN in the image; but if it is normal, I would pursue a different path to assessing renal function.
The newest and best serum diagnostic test for assessing renal function is the serum cystatin-C. Cystatin-C is a linear progressive expression of renal function regardless of body habitus.
I have ordered this on a few patients since 2015 who had elevated serum creatinine and large muscle mass. They all turned out to have completely normal renal function when the serum creatinine was not used.
As it stands currently in medicine, there is no accurate way to adjust the eGFR calculation in respect to elevated creatinine from increased muscle mass. That is the reason the serum cystatin-C test was researched and made available.
My creatinine climbed steadily over 8 weeks and 4 different lab tests. I thought it was because of the trenbolone; but my cystatin-C was normal. So I know now that the elevated creatinine was from my increasing mass and constant breakdown of muscle in the gym.
Get a cystatin-C drawn man. I think it will set your mind at ease.
Great advice and very interesting. Here is my lab results from only 5 days before the one I previously posted.
Attachments
mdhx3
Banned
The BUN (blood urea nitrogen) is a little high.
The issue with interpretation is multi-factorial: 1) AAS compounds alter these values 2) increased muscle mass can alter these values 3) increased dietary protein intake can alter these values 4) strenuous exercise can alter these values 5) hydration status can alter these values.
Everything we do makes traditional serum renal markers difficult to interpret.
If no one ever told you to, please make sure you are fasting for at least 6 hours before any blood work.
I really would not be able to accurately interpret any renal function on someone who trains hard, uses AAS, or has increased muscle mass without a cystatin-C. I would also suggest a urinalysis for protein and a urine albumin/creatinine ratio.
If these tests were elevated, I would order a renal ultrasound.
My mom had renal failure and was on dialysis until she died. I am super vigilant about my kidney health. Renal failure, heart failure, or liver failure are definitely something you want to work hard at finding early clues to.
Trensweater
New Member
send email to the sst address for a list ?
heavylifter87
Member
Very interesting video for those wanting to run tren and winny .. separate or together . Goes right over the kidney issues too
Dr Hook
New Member
Do like everyone else and read
Savagesteve
Well-known Member
No shit. I mean ffs it’s one the first post...
Jackreature
New Member
Want to make sure I get my facts straight before I look into this - you were or you were NOT on winny at the time the bloods were drawn?
I see that @mdhx3 already covered this in great detail and with awesome info...he forced me to go research cyastatin-c as I did not know much about it. It seems cyastatin-C isn't just more accurate at detecting decline in kidney function, but it is also cheaper than the precise GFR tests (injecting inulin, radioisotopes, or radio contrast agents, etc.) that the eGFR is used in place of due to their price and difficulty. Its a no-brainer. I gotta add this one to my arsenal, especially if I have a muscle bound guy come in.
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