UK GENTECH LABS

[Dr JIM]

Isn't using PM going against a non-censored forum and certainly not lying all the cards on the table?

@brutus79 asked Millard to do the same for CBS. I asked Brutus the same thing when he called me out last year. His reply was mands you stand where everyone else stands with me. Right out in the open. Well something to that effect.

@Millard Baker didn't single out @CensoredBoardsSuck. I did. I did for good reason and if cbs wants to enlighten anyone on that conversation he can.

I have called out members in the past for doing the same thing. Personal attacks and bullshit that you can't even follow a thread.

I've gone as far as calling members out and making a thread specific for them.

So many intelligent and gifted individuals on this board it's frustrating to see them act out.

mands

I'm not saying an overt rebuke of an individual is inherently inappropriate by another Meso member, but will suggest bc the rules as to what constitutes an "unproductive discussion" on an uncensored forum are vague, unwritten, and otherwise in the eyes of the beholder, a PM should be the FIRST approach on behalf of MESO ADMIN.

Regs
Jim

 

[Dr JIM]

I read the thread and 90%'of it was cbs and dr Jim abusing the guy.. The only person who dared put there results on here was xupc and look how his rep has been dropped because of it...

No 1 dare put shit on here because of you fuckin bully's! I won't ask you for diet or training info because I know my shit from experience and for your size you should look better so don't act like your better than me!

And I bet when you joined you didn't have to deal with this shit that we do!

And who has asked you to find a source board? Your just talking shit now.

I had respect for you Brutus but now I think your a bully and a piss taker... Personally I think your losing sight!

---------------------------------------
Do outline how I abused him?

Was it the FACT he purchased ONE VIAL of their Tren yet ranted and raved about how good IT was?

Or was it the FACT he posted analytical studies his boy Jane-o can't support using conventional lab standards?

Or was it the FACT he admits to being screwed by every other UGL and is using that BUNK as a frame of reference for GT

Or was it the FACT he posted one pic of the PHOTOSPEC device being used for "his Tren analysis" yet added another PIC "of the real one" AFTER I questioned the absorbance limitations of first PIC?

Or is it the FACT he purchased a "boatload" of GT AAS, in spite of these questionable events or GT commentary, willing to repeat the same foolish mistakes he made with the other UGLs that "screwed me"?

I'm sure the are several more where my criticisms were more than justified for those with an objective viewpoint!

And it's bc of these FACTS I believe PAC-S is either a FOOL, SHILL or a LIAR!

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

I am very satisfied with my responses. I am even more satisfied that our exchange is a matter of public record. This way, no matter what future tactics you use to misrepresent my position, my statements/positions will be public for any critical thinkers who wish to make their own decisions.

Now I've misrepresented your position? You asked me to self-censor. I've been saying that since day one. I haven't misrepresented anything.

Thank you in advance for proving my point.

Thank you for ignoring my questions.

What is productive discussion? You said "Sometimes, personal attacks are the most appropriate and logical course of action. Most of the time they are not." How many ad hominems in a post are too many? One? No, it can't be one because you said some personal attacks are appropriate. What about two? Or three? How many? And who makes that determination? Do you make that determination - for everybody? Is productive discussion only what you say it is?

All that aside, what do you think your criticism accomplished? Your stated goal was to encourage/influence/induce/coerce members to refrain from engaging in ill defined unproductive discussion in favor of the even more ill defined productive discussion. But by your own admission the personal attacks are still happening so your criticism didn't have the intended result. As far as I can tell, the only thing your criticism accomplished was raising questions about your commitment to free speech and changing the way I look at Meso.

 

[Millard]

Now I've misrepresented your position? You asked me to self-censor. I've been saying that since day one. I haven't misrepresented anything.

I asked you and @Docd187123 to limit personal attacks to facilitate a more productive discussion. I agree. I did this.

It is a misrepresentation to say that I denied doing so. It is a misrepresentation to say this was my position. It is a misrepresentation to suggest our ensuing exchange was limited to a disagreement over this specific issue.

 

[WILL.E.NAYLER]

---------------------------------------
Do outline how I abused him?

Was it the FACT he purchased ONE VIAL of their Tren yet ranted and raved about how good IT was?

Or was it the FACT he posted analytical studies his boy Jane-o can't support using conventional lab standards?

Or was it the FACT he admits to being screwed by every other UGL and is using that BUNK as a frame of reference for GT

Or was it the FACT he posted one pic of the PHOTOSPEC device being used for "his Tren analysis" yet added another PIC "of the real one" AFTER I questioned the absorbance limitations of first PIC?

Or is it the FACT he purchased a "boatload" of GT AAS, in spite of these questionable events or GT commentary, willing to repeat the same foolish mistakes he made with the other UGLs that "screwed me"?

I'm sure the are several more where my criticisms were more than justified for those with an objective viewpoint!

And it's bc of these FACTS I believe PAC-S is either a FOOL, SHILL or a LIAR!

Dr Jim you ride this lab so hard.. If it was an arsehole it would need reconstructing!

 

[WILL.E.NAYLER]

Hey suit yourself man, don't want any input from others and slag on experienced well known members to boot! GL with your first cycle of GT mate.

I guess us retards have to take the training wheels off sometime ey

 

[WILL.E.NAYLER]

As disturbing as this photo is it made me laugh... You and sworder have good banter (you would prob get along in real life)

 

[Millard]

I'm not saying an overt rebuke of an individual is inherently inappropriate by another Meso member, but will suggest bc the rules as to what constitutes an "unproductive discussion" on an uncensored forum are vague, unwritten, and otherwise in the eyes of the beholder, a PM should be the FIRST approach on behalf of MESO ADMIN.

What is productive discussion? You said "Sometimes, personal attacks are the most appropriate and logical course of action. Most of the time they are not." How many ad hominems in a post are too many? One? No, it can't be one because you said some personal attacks are appropriate. What about two? Or three? How many? And who makes that determination? Do you make that determination - for everybody? Is productive discussion only what you say it is?

What constitutes productive discussion vs. unproductive discussion is a good question. I have no interest in defining that for everybody. I don't really think it is possible. The definition may very much rest in the "eyes of the beholder" depending on their perspectives, goals and objectives.

When I request the reduction of personal attacks to facilitate more productive discussion, I am making a couple of assumptions.

I assume that most members agree that increasing the AAS-related information/educational value of the forum is a shared goal and one of their defining criteria for productive discussion.

I also assume that reducing ad hominems will increase the AAS-related information/educational value of the forum.

As far as when I think ad hominems are appropriate? It's not a question of the number. It's a question of the circumstance. In cases where an individual supports their argument with an appeal to authority, then ad hominems may be the most logical response e.g. members who use their 10-year vet status or jujitsu black belt to support statements about AAS

 

[hammertime]

So anyway, there seems to be a lot of people running this labs gear on other boards and on here.

Anyone have feedback/bloods yet?

Gary, you've gone quiet, any chance of lab results??

 

[Millard]

a PM should be the FIRST approach on behalf of MESO ADMIN.

I once agreed with the PM first approach and I have done this in the past. I no longer do.

If I ask a member to consider adjusting their speech (even if it involves a relatively non-controversial request like reducing personal attacks), it should not be done in secret but it should be transparent to everyone.

I want everyone to see what exactly what was requested rather than it being hidden in the secrecy of a PM.

 

[brutus79]

I once agreed with the PM first approach and I have done this in the past. I no longer do.

If I ask a member to consider adjusting their speech (even if it involves a relatively non-controversial request like reducing personal attacks), it should not be done in secret but it should be transparent to everyone.

I want everyone to see what exactly what was requested rather than it being hidden in the secrecy of a PM.

Since you chose to use your administration handle as opposed to a random dummy handle do you concede that being the owner of the board and asking to curtail a type of conversation certainly makes a very large difference in perception for everyone involved? I felt cbs was trying to drive home that YOU saying it had implied threats or carried far more weight... just checking that you agree with that sentiment. If not I would think in the future you would use an alias not associated with the board in order to avoid any misconceptions.

 

[WILL.E.NAYLER]

So anyway, there seems to be a lot of people running this labs gear on other boards and on here.

Anyone have feedback/bloods yet?

Gary, you've gone quiet, any chance of lab results??

@brutus79

 

[Sworder]

That abonishment still has you intimidated I see... If one were interpret your messages about this whole self-censoring and abonishment in a serious way. I think the likely conclusion would be you are currently too intimidated to further post personal attacks.
But who knows, maybe you are just full of shit and have nothing better to post about.

a PM should be the FIRST approach on behalf of MESO ADMIN.

Millard Baker Member

 

[MANWHORE]

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2]

 

[Sworder]

I felt cbs was trying to drive home that YOU saying it had implied threats or carried far more weight... just checking that you agree with that sentiment. If not I would think in the future you would use an alias not associated with the board in order to avoid any misconceptions.

Yeah CBS am sure is really scared, and he was threatened. The more you, Jim and CBS post the dumber the point that is trying to get proven seems.

If you guys are all so scared to post or intimidated you wouldn't be posting and arguing against Millard. I think all these posts are counteracting the point you guys are trying to prove.

I think the more you are posting and the more you are SCRUTINIZING Millard is showing that he is not censoring anything and allowing freedom of speech by being openly criticized.

Also, has Millard locked the thread because it is off-topic, which it clearly is?
Has any admin actions been taking place?

Sometimes what you don't see is as important as what you do see.

 

[MANWHORE]

Let it go guys ..
Let Millard fight this one ..

 

[MindlessWork]

Lmao that takes the cake!

 

[Millard]

Since you chose to use your administration handle as opposed to a random dummy handle do you concede that being the owner of the board and asking to curtail a type of conversation certainly makes a very large difference in perception for everyone involved? I felt cbs was trying to drive home that YOU saying it had implied threats or carried far more weight... just checking that you agree with that sentiment. If not I would think in the future you would use an alias not associated with the board in order to avoid any misconceptions.

Yes. It is a legitimate concern. I don't dispute that. The potential for censorship (or the threat of censorship) exists. The suggestion that censorship has been "imposed" or members have been "forced" to self-censor is where my disagreement lies. It has not.

The appropriateness of an administrator trying to influence the direction of the forum (no matter how well-intentioned it may be) is a legitimate question. I don't dispute that. Whether my influence is harmful (for the purposes of free speech or productive discussion) is another topic. I don't think it is.

If my participation is harmful, I previously asked what should be the remedy?

Your suggestion of using an alias doesn't really change anything. The potential for censorship exists just the same. The only difference is that forum members would not know who is behind the alias. Furthermore, my influence should be transparent to everyone and not done in secret.

The logical remedy would be for me to restrict/eliminate my participation to influence the direction of the forum or otherwise promote my vision for the forum.

As a side note, it's interesting how my questioning of the appropriateness of personal attacks in facilitating productive discussion has been recast into the appropriateness of my questioning the appropriateness of personal attacks in facilitating productive discussion.

 

[MANWHORE]

As you guys argue on their thread
Gentech Lab's bank account grows ..

Sources will never be able to
Fix their issues with gear if they keep getting trolled by post whores and JOINED TODAY members ...

You guys can disagree with me all you want but all this board has become is a bunch of little kids at a playground with no mommies and daddies ...
When I was 30yrs old I did the same thing though so I won't judge anyone ...
I have more important things to do now like getting in best shape for summer and being with my little boy ..

Take a step back and just look at the time being wasted

M

 

[Docd187123]

I'm not saying an overt rebuke of an individual is inherently inappropriate by another Meso member, but will suggest bc the rules as to what constitutes an "unproductive discussion" on an uncensored forum are vague, unwritten, and otherwise in the eyes of the beholder, a PM should be the FIRST approach on behalf of MESO ADMIN.

Regs
Jim

This whole thing started bc CBS believed he was being censored or pushed to censor himself (whether real or imaginary). Now you're asking Millard to not only censor himself but also to do it secretly behind the scenes where no body would be aware of what was hallening. Makes no sense