War On Drugs

[Eman]

Not if he deports the illegals currently in prison. That's at least 35% of the prison population. I suspect Congress will prevent that from happening, though

I would be shocked if that ever happened... Way too much money being made. The 12% I was referring to was private prisons though, whether Trump deports anyone or not, that number will likely go up up up.

Of course Hillary has promised to end private prisons and refuse prison lobby money. Her campaign has over $300K in prison lobby or connected donations so far, but she gave a whole $8K or so to a women's prison charity recently, so that's something. Wonder what she will do with all those deplorables...

Yes, it's true. Although, I wouldn't turn money away if I were her either.

Trump's "self funding" and other campaign fundings are a lot more questionable IMO.

 

[Perrin Aybara]

Not if he deports the illegals currently in prison. That's at least 35% of the prison population. I suspect Congress will prevent that from happening, though.

Of course Hillary has promised to end private prisons and refuse prison lobby money. Her campaign has over $300K in prison lobby or connected donations so far, but she gave a whole $8K or so to a women's prison charity recently, so that's something. Wonder what she will do with all those deplorables...

From what I understand prisons and jails get more money from the federal government to house an illegal immigrant prisoner than a US citizen prisoner. I doubt they'll want to let go of them either.

 

[XKawN]

Then what may I ask is your issue with releasing half the prison population bc these are the people that would be release. Nobody is advocating releasing murderers, rapists, etc.

Because, I doubt half the prison population is in prison for responsible drug use. I grew up in the system. don't think I've ever met anybody that was locked up for getting high in their home. the terminologies and outcry are made up for political purposes.

 

[Docd187123]

Because, I doubt half the prison population is in prison for responsible drug use. I grew up in the system. don't think I've ever met anybody that was locked up for getting high in their home. the terminologies and outcry are made up for political purposes.

Responsible drug use is an oxymoron.

People are allowed to get drunk outside of their homes are they not? Why not allow the same "luxury" to drug users? I'm not talking about those who commit other crimes to satisfy their drug addiction either.

Edit* to add there's over 83,000 inmates in federal lockup on drug related offenses which makes up about 46.5% of the inmate population.

 

[XKawN]

Responsible drug use is an oxymoron.

People are allowed to get drunk outside of their homes are they not? Why not allow the same "luxury" to drug users? I'm not talking about those who commit other crimes to satisfy their drug addiction either.

Edit* to add there's over 83,000 inmates in federal lockup on drug related offenses which makes up about 46.5% of the inmate population.

Whats does this statistic include as "drug related charges"?

 

[Eman]

Whats does this statistic include as "drug related charges"?

That statistic reflects the total amount of individuals in federal prison for drug offenses.

 

[Docd187123]

Whats does this statistic include as "drug related charges"?

Like Eman said, it includes those in prison for drug related offenses including possession, sale, manufacture, paraphernalia, etc related to drugs.

I think I know what you're getting at and the overwhelming majority of these people are low level offenders meaning they have no criminal history or very little criminal history, most often of which includes being a repeat offender for the same drug charge.

 

[Docd187123]

A USDOJ executive summary of nonviolent drug offenders:


Recent years have been marked by dramatic increases in the Federal prison population and in the number of Federal defendants sentenced for drug law violations. This report takes as its focus drug offenders with a minimal or no prior criminal history whose offense did not involve sophisticated criminal activity and whose offense behavior was not violent. We refer to this person as a "low-level" drug offender. This shorthand is adopted for purposes of convenience and not to suggest any policy conclusions or assessments about the seriousness or harm resulting from drug offenses. The purpose of the analysis is to gain a more solid foundation of knowledge to inform criminal justice policy decisions.

The study started with a group of offenders selected from computerized records used by the U.S. Sentencing Commission and the Bureau of Prisons. A sample was identified on the basis of automated information about prior convictions, violence in the current offense, and level of sophistication of the instant offense. However, once the sample was identified, more in-depth record searches (including paper records with considerably more detail and National Crime Information Center records) disclosed more specific information about criminal histories as well as the functional role individual offenders played in their offenses.

It should be noted that there are at least two fundamental approaches to the sentencing of drug law offenders. One approach emphasizes the harm associated with the amount of drugs involved in the offense. Indeed, mandatory-minimum penalties for drug offenses have this premise. A second approach recognizes that in addition to the harm associated with the quantity of drugs, there are other important sentencing factors including the offender's role, and the risk he or she poses to the community. This report does not endorse or recommend one approach above the other. Rather it provides information on risk and role for the consideration of policymakers.

The major findings of this study are:

• A substantial number of drug law violators sentenced to incarceration in Bureau of Prisons custody can be classified as "low-level". Using one set of criteria which limited offenders to no current or prior violence in their records, no involvement in sophisticated criminal activity and no prior commitment, there were 16,316 Federal prisoners who could be considered low-level drug law violators. They constituted 36.1 percent of all drug law offenders in the prison system and 21.2 percent of the total sentenced Federal prison population.
• If we further restricted the population to those offenders with zero criminal history points - according to U.S. Sentencing Commission rules, there were 12,727 Federal prisoners who could be considered low-level drug law violators. They constituted 28.2 percent of all drug offenders in the prison system and 16.6 percent of all sentenced prisoners.
• The average sentence of the low-level drug law offender group was 81.5 months which means that, under Guideline sentencing (must serve 85% of sentence), these individuals will serve, on average, at least 69 months before release from prison.
• Even with a liberal interpretation of criminal justice contact (where criminal justice contact was defined as an arrest regardless of disposition), the majority of low-level offenders had no prior recorded contact with the criminal justice system. The data do not reflect criminal justice contacts outside the United States. Therefore, criminal justice contacts for non-citizens may be under-reported.
• Based on the study sample, two-thirds of low-level drug offenders currently in the Bureau of Prisons (1994) received mandatory-minimum sentences. Even among low-level drug offenders, sentences have increased 150% above what they were prior to the implementation of Sentencing Guidelines and significant sentencing legislation which established mandatory-minimum sentences for primarily drug and weapons offenses.
• Among the low-level offenders, 42.3 percent were couriers or played peripheral roles in drug trafficking.

 

[Eman]

Here's what I don't get. democrats want to free half our prison population, demonize our police, take our guns, allow folks to enter our country illegally and stay, jail folks for defending themselves, etc etc. where does the insanity stop?

To put it in better context.... I do live in California, lol.

You living in California doesn't really add much context brother.

Do you not feel this nation has an issue with our police forces? Did you read the DOJ's reports on the findings in Baltimore? I wouldn't say anyone is demonizing police in general... But there is a problem that needs addressed regardless of party affiliation.

Do you know how many people die from guns in the US every year? Are you comfortable with that number? Are you opposed to it being more difficult to acquire a gun in the US? I'm a gun owner and I'm friends with many gun owners, Republicans included, and they have no issue with this... What proof do you have that anyone is going to TAKE your guns? Lots of people making money from your fear of that happening...

Not sure what you are referring to on jailing those that defend themselves... Maybe that does have merit but I certainly don't hear of it often, there is a problem in the US with kill first and ask questions later though IMO.

Immigration, I agree, needs attention in this country. However, are you aware of what the process is like to become a citizen of this country? Not only is it difficult to say the least, it's almost archaic in some respects. With that in mind, is it shocking that we have an issue with people entering the country illegally? Do you think a big wall is actually the solution?

 

[XKawN]

That statistic reflects the total amount of individuals in federal prison for drug offenses.

Link, please.

I was locked up with a guy who killed a man, his wife and their child in a drug robbery gone wrong. that is a drug related crime. I think we need to be a little more specific when passing judgement and laws and such. how many people's do you think are thrown in prison, Eman, for using drugs or possession for use?

 

[RandallNowan]

Just a shower thought: do people for whom immigration is a pressing concern tend to have fewer children (doing their bit to keep the population down) or more children (to keep the population "American" ) ?

 

[RandallNowan]

Link, please.

I was locked up with a guy who killed a man, his wife and their child in a drug robbery gone wrong. that is a drug related crime. I think we need to be a little more specific when passing judgement and laws and such. how many people's do you think are thrown in prison, Eman, for using drugs or possession for use?

He's done a horrible thing. Truly.
But drugs (and the fact that they are illegal) make people do some crazy shit in desperation.

Lots of people are in jail for either being unlucky, buying off the wrong person, bulk buying for value, or selling a little bit to their friends. None of which is a big offence (if any) in my book.

We need some jury nullification going on.

 

[Eman]

how many people's do you think are thrown in prison, Eman, for using drugs or possession for use?

A substantial amount. Look at the numbers already posted, do you think the majority of the numbers you've seen were murderers/rapists etc? It's a good point though, it's a little more difficult to pick out the specific statistics you're asking for though.

This link might offer some perspective:

Prisons, Jails, and People Arrested for Drugs | Drug War Facts

There is another I have, it's a PDF of what you're asking but it's more of a survey. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[XKawN]

You living in California doesn't really add much context brother.

Do you not feel this nation has an issue with our police forces? Did you read the DOJ's reports on the findings in Baltimore? I wouldn't say anyone is demonizing police in general... But there is a problem that needs addressed regardless of party affiliation.

Do you know how many people die from guns in the US every year? Are you comfortable with that number? Are you opposed to it being more difficult to acquire a gun in the US? I'm a gun owner and I'm friends with many gun owners, Republicans included, and they have no issue with this... What proof do you have that anyone is going to TAKE your guns? Lots of people making money from your fear of that happening...

Not sure what you are referring to on jailing those that defend themselves... Maybe that does have merit but I certainly don't hear of it often, there is a problem in the US with kill first and ask questions later though IMO.

Immigration, I agree, needs attention in this country. However, are you aware of what the process is like to become a citizen of this country? Not only is it difficult to say the least, it's almost archaic in some respects. With that in mind, is it shocking that we have an issue with people entering the country illegally? Do you think a big wall is actually the solution?

There are things I agree with in your post. there are plenty of liberals that "do" want to take gun rights away. I think Americans should have the right to be as armed as law enforcement . I do not trust my government nor it's law enforcement, but feel I should have the right to defend myself against my government if needed. there is my problem with the contradiction. don't take my gun away if you yourself believe he law is dishonest and corrupt.

I don't care how many people die each year at the hands of guns. not my problem and not my fualt.

Change the immigration policies then. don't create sanctuary cities and give illegal immigrants freebies at my expense .

 

[RandallNowan]

What if we just started raising the price of bullets/rounds... Double the price each year.
I don't imagine it would take long for the casualty rate to start dropping significantly.

 

[Docd187123]

There are things I agree with in your post. there are plenty of liberals that "do" want to take gun rights away. I think Americans should have the right to be as armed as law enforcement . I do not trust my government nor it's law enforcement, but feel I should have the right to defend myself against my government if needed. there is my problem with the contradiction. don't take my gun away if you yourself believe he law is dishonest and corrupt.

I don't care how many people die each year at the hands of guns. not my problem and not my fualt.

Change the immigration policies then. don't create sanctuary cities and give illegal immigrants freebies at my expense .

Those illegal immigrants are paying into the system much more than they're taking out when you look at the big picture.

How do you explain the fact that in one post on page 5 you're complaining about democrats demonizing law enforcement and now here you're saying you don't trust that same law enforcement and you want your guns to, potentially violently, fight them off?

 

[XKawN]

He's done a horrible thing. Truly.
But drugs (and the fact that they are illegal) make people do some crazy shit in desperation.

Lots of people are in jail for either being unlucky, buying off the wrong person, bulk buying for value, or selling a little bit to their friends. None of which is a big offence (if any) in my book.

We need some jury nullification going on.

My point here was, if you ask me does someone belong in prison for a drug related crime then I need the question to be a little more specific . this guy belongs in prison. I did have the benefit of knowing him personally to make my judgment, but in this case I think most can make their judgment without the benefit of knowing him.

 

[Docd187123]

Link, please.

I was locked up with a guy who killed a man, his wife and their child in a drug robbery gone wrong. that is a drug related crime. I think we need to be a little more specific when passing judgement and laws and such. how many people's do you think are thrown in prison, Eman, for using drugs or possession for use?

BOP Statistics: Inmate Offenses

USDOJ: An Analysis of Non-violent Drug Offenders

 

[Eman]

I don't care how many people die each year at the hands of guns. not my problem and not my fualt.

Sorry to hear you say that... when you have a family member or friend killed in a senseless act of violence because of a gun perhaps you'll feel that stricter gun laws are in order after all.

Change the immigration policies then. don't create sanctuary cities and give illegal immigrants freebies at my expense

Not a bad stance at all. I agree wth you. Unfortunately, depending on the outcome of the election, immigration will either become decidedly easier or much more difficult in this country.

 

[XKawN]

Those illegal immigrants are paying into the system much more than they're taking out when you look at the big picture.

How do you explain the fact that in one post on page 5 you're complaining about democrats demonizing law enforcement and now here you're saying you don't trust that same law enforcement and you want your guns to, potentially violently, fight them off?

My point was they are hypocritical. demonize police "and" take my guns?