Who is our biggest, most shredded member at Meso?

[Geterdun]

If it is affecting you this badly, perhaps you should just cruise on some trt around 120mg-200mgs under dr supervision for a bit and the re-evaluate. I think taking that much HCG at once is a mistake. I advocate smaller dosing with HCG, more is less there. Take care of the underlying issues that are causing your anxiety for a while with counseling and take care of yourself a bit man.
Once you do, then perhaps you can think about a little blast on something mild like primobolan. Or you could always go with mini cycles, 2 weeks on, 4 weeks off rinse and repeat. Mini cycles are the future for many here for health and $ reasons.

Can you show us facts that these mini cycles are the future for many here and studies where it shows it benefits health? I read a few people saying they were going to try them, but have seen nothing to say many here and have seen nothing study related that shows mini cycles have benefit for health. Thanks...

 

[JayWaWa]

Can you show us facts that these mini cycles are the future for many here and studies where it shows it benefits health? I read a few people saying they were going to try them, but have seen nothing to say many here and have seen nothing study related that shows mini cycles have benefit for health. Thanks...

An Integrated Steroid, Training, and Nutrition Program
and read this as well
SHORT CYCLES! an excellent educational read...

Bill Roberts has been preaching this for years. Ive personally had great success on short 2-4 week blasts at 4-5k calories per day.

 

[JayWaWa]

WHY DO SHORT CYCLES?

The main reason is to limit the negative health impact that steroids DO have on users.
For those of you that don't get lab work done while on steroids I would have you know that steroid use causes a very bad shift in the lipid profile. HDL(good cholesterol) which acts like a sticky sweeping broom to sweep up bad LDL (bad cholesterol) and prevent plaque build up on atery walls, goes EXTREMELY LOW in, dare I say, ALL MEN. Not only this but LDL levels usually climb and this is combo is not good.
Short cycles still cause a crappy lipid shift but not to the same degree as the long cycle. Also less time "On" means less time for potential aterial plaque build up.
After my last long cycle of 8 weeks I had some blood work done and my doc HAD A COW as my hdl to total cholesterol ratio was extremely poor.

There isn't a damn thing you can do to significantly avoid this....you can take niacin , flax oil , do cardio and have a perfect diet low in saturated fat and you will STILL get a very ****ty lipid profile.

So a very bad lipid profile with high ldl and rock bottom hdl is a SIGNIFICANT risk factor for arterial plaque build up and heart disease. As a side....anyone that thinks "Arny" only got his aortic valve done doesn't have a clue. I know for a fact that he had a coronary bypass as I have worked with members of the heart team that did his operation.

True there are other risk factors for heart disease but this is a big one and well documented as well.

HEW!!! Next ...short cycles limit other side effects like hair loss, acne, high Blood pressure and resulting kidney stress, testicular shrinkage and poor HPTA rebound.

Also short cycles are a heck of a lot easier on the old liver especially if 17aa orals are used....got to love d-bol he he he !

WHAT SHORT CYCLES ARE NOT

Short cycles will not result in bigger gains. Short cycles will not allow one to be competitive in todays national level competitions. Short cycles will not give you 30 pounds of bulk at one time.

WHAT SHORT CYCLES CAN DO

Short cycles can give you decent gains that are FAR better than what you could attain to as a natural. Gains of 10 pounds are not infrequently kept form a short cycle with the novice or those that are not at least very close to their natural maximum weight.

Short cycles will allow a much quicker HPTA recovery than a long cycle and this allows one to kepp a higher percentage of ones gains. In fact full testosterone rebound often happens in but a week. Gains often continue in the weeks after the short cycle is over simply because ones natural test production often jumps a little higher than normal becuase the pituitary really hammers out the LH and the testes have not shrunk.
My natural test production is quite good for a man of 40, at 550. I tested my test level a week after I stopped a 14 day cycle and it had rebonded to 650 from the immediate pre cycle 550. On day 15 it was down to 54!

How many of you bro's have experience gains AFTER coming off a 8 weeker...not a one I would say.

Lets face it bro's if you gain 25 -30 pounds of bulk in a long cycle you sure the hell aren't going to be able to hang onto more than 15 of those pounds over the next 6 months unless you were WAY WAY under your potential to begin with.

 

[rutman]

@JayWaWa....So I take it you were running the cycle without test as the base?


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[JayWaWa]

My first mini cycle: Test prop at 300 mgs spread out at .5cc/50mg a day except on saturdays on top of my 200mgs from trt. Never higher. Spread the doses out to avoid spikes/sides. I get wicked Ani Levator/prostate flare up from test converting to DHT, i have to be really careful not to spike. Ran ADX at .5mg eod. That was mini cycle #1 i put on 6 pounds of tissue in just over 2 weeks and have kept it.

 

[rutman]

My first mini cycle: Test prop at 300 mgs spread out at .5cc/50mg a day except on saturdays on top of my 200mgs from trt. Never higher. Spread the doses out to avoid spikes/sides. I get wicked Ani Levator/prostate flare up from test converting to DHT, i have to be really careful not to spike. Ran ADX at .5mg eod. That was mini cycle #1 i put on 6 pounds of tissue in just over 2 weeks and have kept it.

I call bullshit.... 6 pounds in 2 weeks is not tissue. It's water. Not happening


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[Oregongearhead]

I call bullshit.... 6 pounds in 2 weeks is not tissue. It's water. Not happening


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True . I have guys asking how I put 1" of muscle on my arms in one month ?
Who said it was all muscle ? Water .

 

[JayWaWa]

I call bullshit.... 6 pounds in 2 weeks is not tissue. It's water. Not happening


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No BS. All legit. Youre calling BS on Bill Roberts then as well, he advocates this protocol, thats where i got it from. He says these kinds of gains can be seen in short cycles if the training, PED"s and nutrition are dialed in properly. Its working for me.

Bill has published some case studies with varying results:
The 2-On, 4-Off Steroid Cycle: A Case Study

More importantly, TRY IT!
It takes little $ and time, just effort to try it. What do you have to lose?

 

[rutman]

No BS. All legit. Youre calling BS on Bill Roberts then as well, he advocates this protocol, thats where i got it from. He says these kinds of gains can be seen in short cycles if the training, PED"s and nutrition are dialed in properly. Its working for me.

Bill has published some case studies with varying results:
The 2-On, 4-Off Steroid Cycle: A Case Study

I don't give a fuck what Bill Roberts said... What I'm saying is that there's no way in hell that you put on 6 pounds of muscle in 2 weeks. You'd be lucky to put that on in 3 months. I'm talking muscle gains....NOT water retention.

I've been at this for 20 years. You can't bullshit me...


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[Oregongearhead]

Did Casey Viator really gain 63lbs of muscle in one month ??

The Colorado Experiment: Fact or Fiction | T Nation

 

[JayWaWa]

If its not all tissue, this water weight sure has stuck around for a while now
All told i gained 12 pounds on that first cycle and dropped 6 in the following 2 weeks of some lighter calorie intake, but the rest stayed and most of the strength stayed as well.

 

[JayWaWa]

I don't give a fuck what Bill Roberts said... What I'm saying is that there's no way in hell that you put on 6 pounds of muscle in 2 weeks. You'd be lucky to put that on in 3 months. I'm talking muscle gains....NOT water retention.

I've been at this for 20 years. You can't bullshit me...


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I wouldn't try to bullshit you. Im not on here to bullshit and waste my time or yours, just to report my personal findings and listen to the findings of others.

 

[johntt44]

An Integrated Steroid, Training, and Nutrition Program
and read this as well
SHORT CYCLES! an excellent educational read...

Bill Roberts has been preaching this for years. Ive personally had great success on short 2-4 week blasts at 4-5k calories per day.

What if I do 8-10 week cycles like normal with 4-6mos off? I gain more mass and get just as much time off
What's the benefit of 2on/4off then? I've done 1 test, and 2 tren/ test cycles and my bloodwork has been fine. My good cholesterol was back to normal 3wks after tren cycle. I don't think everybody reacts exactly the same physiologically to these drugs. I'm not saying 2on/4off won't work, I just don't see an advantage really.

 

[rutman]

It's a complete waste of time and money.

This isn't the right thread tip be talking cycles on. It's best to start a new one to discuss this.


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[johntt44]

You're right.

 

[achilles87]

2 weeks of what no esters? I'm not going to post anymore about that subject, but I want to put it out there that that would be dumb. Also 6 pounds of pure muscle in 2 weeks? You must have the best genetics in the world ask any bodybuilder how long it takes to put on 6 pounds of muscle.... 6 pounds maybe but not 6 pounds of muscle.


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[penche]

Keeping it at the top .

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Present stats: 5' 7" / 210lbs. The Tren strength is really kicking in hard. Was on the military press free weight and hit 225lbs for 5 reps unassisted. However, I've complained so much bout my tendonitis most of you guys already know. So I purchased some Mark Bell Gangsta wraps. I wrap them right above my elbow joint, not on my elbow joint. It's near the end of the tricep. Is this considered cheating? I use these on bench press and they help with the pain tremendously. I bought them not cuz they say gangsta but because I heard Mark Bell knows his shit. Just don't know if I'm cheating myself from strength. Would these be allowed in PL meets? Here's a pic of them on my wrist

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[MindlessWork]

Keeping it at the top .

Solid gains and keep powering thru..I have tendinitis in both elbows which makes it harder for curls and db pressing so I may look into those wraps.

 

[Dw725]

Keeping it at the top .

Def not cheating with the wraps , but I don't think they can be used in most PL feds the way u describe. Looking super thick either way man.

 

[Perrin Aybara]

Keeping it at the top .

There's rules on the length and width, but I'm almost certain those are made to regulation. What would be against the rules is wrapping them too far above your wrist onto your hand.