Anabolic Steroids & Kidney

[Slicknyc]

Resurrecting an old but important thread.

Resurrecting an old but very important thread. I've been doing this since 1972 and started to hear and learn about steroids in the 80s. I was living in Cali at the time and trained at Golds, where all of us, including the pros, went to Dr. Walczak. It was always the liver that was the concern. No one thought or talked about the kidneys. Now, as the limits are being pushed, it seems that it is the kidney function that is also being compromised and of much more concern simply because, unlike the liver, the kidneys don't come back.

Can Dr. Scally, or anyone else, interpret his post? I'm not sure how many here are familiar and educated enough to make sense of statements like:

"results revealed a significant increase in the nephrin and podocin gene expression, plasma cystatin C, and the amount of 8-OHdG in the kidney tissue;"

Is that good or bad? What about:

"nandrolone with strenuous exercise groups, showed histological changes such as fibrosis and kidney tissue cells proliferation."


Kidney cell proliferation sounds like a good thing to me. Like it's regenerating.

This is an excellent question that I hope someone can answer. Damn you have been in this game longer than anyone I’ve come across on these forums? How old are you if I may ask? When did you start using gear and for how long? I just turned 50 and been in this game since 1989 so yeah I did my first cycle at 19. Steroids for very popular during that time where I grew up for people that age. Most only did 1-2 cycles and moved on but I guess you could say I became adddicted. Curious to hear more about your experiences in the bodybuilding culture in general.

 

[mtt]

This is an excellent question that I hope someone can answer. Damn you have been in this game longer than anyone I’ve come across on these forums? How old are you if I may ask? When did you start using gear and for how long? I just turned 50 and been in this game since 1989 so yeah I did my first cycle at 19. Steroids for very popular during that time where I grew up for people that age. Most only did 1-2 cycles and moved on but I guess you could say I became adddicted. Curious to hear more about your experiences in the bodybuilding culture in general.

I'm 61 years old and started at 21 with Dr. Walczak. The 80s were a good time. Gear was mostly pharma grade and not hard to get once you got on the inside.
Walczak mostly prescribed Deca and Dbol. I remember when he gave me a bottle of Ciba Dianabol he opened up a cabinet, not secure, just like your kitchen cabinet, and there were just rows and rows of the Ciba gold. Must have been about 60 bottles. Also, in those days they didn't use Test nearly as much as they do today. In fact, even while working at a gym, I didn't know anyone that used Test. Walczak didn't include that in his basic program. Only if your levels dropped below normal would he prescribed it but didn't consider it a good bodybuilding hormone. He said the whole point of steroids was to minimize the androgenic properties (side effects) which in those days had to do with secondary sexual characteristics while keeping or enhancing the anabolic properties. Test was graded as 1:1 whereas Deca was something like 10:1. The exact words he used regarding Test were, "More side effects and less anabolic." It kind of made sense. All steroids come from Testosterone and it was a means to improve upon the natural hormone. If not, why bother? He started me off on 200mg/wk Organon Deca and 1 pill a day of Ciba Dianabol. And it worked! Nothing like your first cycle to get you pumped. You felt (and acted) like superman.

 

[malfeasance]

Cool story, mtt. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Type-IIx]

Plasma cystatin C (CysC) concentrations are associated with chronic kidney disease, so they are a marker for long-term kidney problems when elevated. Its elevation is also a simular predictor of liver dysfunction as with creatinine levels. Nephrin and podocin are associated with proteinuria and progression to renal failure (nephrin-podocin complex). 8-OHdG is a "metabolite of oxidative damage to leukocyte DNA, and has been identified as a marker of oxidative stress in patients with chronic renal failure."

That is, all are markers of renal disease and chronic elevation could indicate a progression toward kidney failure.

Kidney cell proliferation is good in the very short-term as a response to injury. Chronic proliferation in kidney tissue is very bad, however. Proliferation to non-bodybuilders is generally a scary thing, as it's often discussed with regard to malignant tumor growth.

 

[mtt]

Plasma cystatin C (CysC) concentrations are associated with chronic kidney disease, so they are a marker for long-term kidney problems when elevated. Its elevation is also a simular predictor of liver dysfunction as with creatinine levels. Nephrin and podocin are associated with proteinuria and progression to renal failure (nephrin-podocin complex). 8-OHdG is a "metabolite of oxidative damage to leukocyte DNA, and has been identified as a marker of oxidative stress in patients with chronic renal failure."

That is, all are markers of renal disease and chronic elevation could indicate a progression toward kidney failure.

Kidney cell proliferation is good in the very short-term as a response to injury. Chronic proliferation in kidney tissue is very bad, however. Proliferation to non-bodybuilders is generally a scary thing, as it's often discussed with regard to malignant tumor growth.

What is plasma cystatin? What causes it? What does it do?

 

[Michealchapman83]

On a related note , my creatinine levels just came back at 1.08 mg !! BUN was 14 . Im quite happy because my doc thought I might have some kidney disease because of past creatinine levels of 140 , 136 and 131 (125 is high range)

All I did was quit lifting weights for 2 weeks , no high protein diet and no steroids for 3 months.

How did you feel when your creatine was high like that? We’re there any symptoms or the only way is blood work to figure it out

 

[Type-IIx]

What is plasma cystatin? What causes it? What does it do?

It may have a physiological function (it is a marker of "glomerular filtration rate") that I am not aware of, but its primary function is as a marker of kidney stress.

 

[acxel814]

I have a question and it's regarding extreme edema... Like my weight can fluctuate from 205 to 225 it's insane. Anything I can do about that? Or any clue what could be causing it?

 

[malfeasance]

I have a question and it's regarding extreme edema... Like my weight can fluctuate from 205 to 225 it's insane. Anything I can do about that? Or any clue what could be causing it?

Well, since we know nothing about you or what you are taking or doing or your state of health ---- no.

This thread is about kidneys - do you have some sort of kidney issue?

Help us out just a little.

 

[RoidmeDangerfield]

Well, since we know nothing about you or what you are taking or doing or your state of health ---- no.

This thread is about kidneys - do you have some sort of kidney issue?

Help us out just a little.

User acxel814 may have read that edema can be the result of advanced kidney disease. You are right, we need more information. But if edema is a symptom of kidney disease it's usually associated with other symptoms like puffy eyes (area under the eyes), foamy urine, loss of appetite.

In a somewhat related situation, I was gaining five to seven pounds a day (and losing it by the next morning) after I started taking ten enanthate. Once I took .5mg of arimidex Mondays and Thursdays I no longer gained that amount of weight daily. It was just water weight from my hormones getting out of wack. So hopefully in acxel814's case he just needs to get his hormones under control.

 

[acxel814]

Well, since we know nothing about you or what you are taking or doing or your state of health ---- no.

This thread is about kidneys - do you have some sort of kidney issue?

Help us out just a little.

You're right. I will give a full explanation as soon as I am off work.

 

[Goingstronger]

You're right. I will give a full explanation as soon as I am off work.

Off yet ?

 

[acxel814]

Ok first I'm 49 years old. I'm currently 215 at 13-16%? Bf I do have high blood pressure but I've managed to bring it down to almost perfect without drugs, I'm currently taking 400 mgs test 400 mgs tren enanthate. I do take letrozole mon-wed-Fri at 1mg. But my weight will fluctuate from 205 to 225 if my sodium gets out of hand. I eat one cheat meal a week and this is all I need to balloon out. Problem is though that it doesn't usually go right back to normal it takes DAYS of watching my sodium and monitoring my water intake. I tried drinking more water but this doesn't help really. On bad days I've resorted to NOT drinking water at all and sitting in the sauna for and hour just to get comfort. Doctors have prescribed lasix which helps but makes me cramp up.

 

[acxel814]

Ok first I'm 49 years old. I'm currently 215 at 13-16%? Bf I do have high blood pressure but I've managed to bring it down to almost perfect without drugs, I'm currently taking 400 mgs test 400 mgs tren enanthate. I do take letrozole mon-wed-Fri at 1mg. But my weight will fluctuate from 205 to 225 if my sodium gets out of hand. I eat one cheat meal a week and this is all I need to balloon out. Problem is though that it doesn't usually go right back to normal it takes DAYS of watching my sodium and monitoring my water intake. I tried drinking more water but this doesn't help really. On bad days I've resorted to NOT drinking water at all and sitting in the sauna for and hour just to get comfort. Doctors have prescribed lasix which helps but makes me cramp up.

Also I don't have issues with blood sugar. I used to drink heavily once upon a time and did get liver scaring but my liver enzymes have been great lately.

 

[Goingstronger]

Ok first I'm 49 years old. I'm currently 215 at 13-16%? Bf I do have high blood pressure but I've managed to bring it down to almost perfect without drugs, I'm currently taking 400 mgs test 400 mgs tren enanthate. I do take letrozole mon-wed-Fri at 1mg. But my weight will fluctuate from 205 to 225 if my sodium gets out of hand. I eat one cheat meal a week and this is all I need to balloon out. Problem is though that it doesn't usually go right back to normal it takes DAYS of watching my sodium and monitoring my water intake. I tried drinking more water but this doesn't help really. On bad days I've resorted to NOT drinking water at all and sitting in the sauna for and hour just to get comfort. Doctors have prescribed lasix which helps but makes me cramp up.

Why on earth would you inflict all those toxic drugs on your body at any age, but even more so at 49?

Tren better make you feel like superman to justify all this poisoning.

Letro? Lasix? Ugh...

 

[acxel814]

Why on earth would you inflict all those toxic drugs on your body at any age, but even more so at 49?

Tren better make you feel like superman to justify all this poisoning.

Letro? Lasix? Ugh...

Ok well not that I was looking for judgement but besides that, your comment was totally useless. I don't need to justify to you why I do or don't do these drugs this is a steroid forum and information site correct? So maybe go find a life long natty and proud website were you can pass off your high opinion instead of here.

 

[Goingstronger]

Ok well not that I was looking for judgement but besides that, your comment was totally useless. I don't need to justify to you why I do or don't do these drugs this is a steroid forum and information site correct? So maybe go find a life long natty and proud website were you can pass off your high opinion instead of here.

Dude, you're complaining about edema and asking for advice.
I'm giving you the straight up answer no one is going to give you: quit taking all those toxic drugs.
Stick to testosterone, no ancilliaries.

You introduced way too many toxic variables, and are looking to introduce more variables to counter those ill-effects.
Do you not see where the problem lies?

 

[acxel814]

Dude, you're complaining about edema and asking for advice.
I'm giving you the straight up answer no one is going to give you: quit taking all those toxic drugs.
Stick to testosterone, no ancilliaries.

You introduced way too many toxic variables, and are looking to introduce more variables to counter those ill-effects.
Do you not see where the problem lies?

Neither of those compounds are known to cause edema, also this isn't my first time doing this and not my first cycle. I know my tolerance and I know how my body responds so this is why I'm asking the question here. Lasix is a diuretic so for you to include it in your judgment of "variables" shows you weren't even paying attention to what the drugs actually do. So if you can add to the conservation with an educated answer and not just a blind judgment great if not move on thanks.

 

[acxel814]

"stick to testosterone no ancillaries" is about as basic as you can get. Sure let me just walk around with some nice titties.

 

[Cashton]

"stick to testosterone no ancillaries" is about as basic as you can get. Sure let me just walk around with some nice titties.

If you get titties just using a healthy dose of testosterone, you have bigger issues.