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[puckhog]

@jackmeoff1
There are many benefits to metformin other than reducing blood sugar. Just because someone is taking metformin with GH it does not negate the use of the GH or even the metformin for that matter.

You can say the same for exo Testosterone. It raises both test and estro levels but we still take an ai to keep estro dialed in. It doesn’t negate the use of test just so we can keep estro in check.

 

[jackmeoff1]

@jackmeoff1
There are many benefits to metformin other than reducing blood sugar. Just because someone is taking metformin with GH it does not negate the use of the GH or even the metformin for that matter.

You can say the same for exo Testosterone. It raises both test and estro levels but we still take an ai to keep estro dialed in. It doesn’t negate the use of test just so we can keep estro in check.

Do you know exactly how much IGF1 is inhibited?

And the answer is no. Nobody does because the only study that reported it just reported "IGF1 was inhibited".

Well what the fuck does that mean to people taking HGH or IGF1? Again, nobody knows!

It is used as an "anti cancer" drug. Why would that be? IGF1 grows cancer cells. This leads me to believe that the action on IGF1 is rather significant.

 

[puckhog]

Do you know exactly how much IGF1 is inhibited?

And the answer is no. Nobody does because the only study that reported it just reported "IGF1 was inhibited".

Well what the fuck does that mean to people taking HGH or IGF1? Again, nobody knows!

It is used as an "anti cancer" drug. Why would that be? IGF1 grows cancer cells. This leads me to believe that the action on IGF1 is rather significant.

Yea, could be, but as you said “nobody knows!”

 

[Superdrol]

Do you know exactly how much IGF1 is inhibited?

And the answer is no. Nobody does because the only study that reported it just reported "IGF1 was inhibited".

Well what the fuck does that mean to people taking HGH or IGF1? Again, nobody knows!

It is used as an "anti cancer" drug. Why would that be? IGF1 grows cancer cells. This leads me to believe that the action on IGF1 is rather significant.

This seems relatable, no?

Abstract
The objective of the present study was to investigate whether metformin affected plasma concentrations of insulin-like growth factor (IGF) I and IGF-binding protein I (IGFBP-I) in polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) patients. This was an open study conducted by the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the University of Siena, Italy. Seventeen women with PCOS participated in the study and were administered metformin at a dose of 500 mg three times a day. Treatment was continued for 30-32 days, after which the pretreatment evaluation was repeated. Plasma concentrations of LH, FSH, estradiol, free testosterone, IGF-I, IGFBP-I, sex hormone-binding globulin, and insulin were evaluated. Metformin led to a significant reduction in areas under the insulin curves (9310 +/- 1509 vs. 6520 +/-1108 mU/mL x min; P < 0.05) and was associated with a decrease in plasma free testosterone levels (12.7 +/- 1.7 vs. 10.3 +/- 2 pg/mL; P < 0.05) and an increase in plasma sex hormone-binding globulin concentrations (62 +/- 8 vs. 94 +/- 13 nmol/L; P < 0.05). A nonsignificant increase in plasma IGF-I levels was observed after metformin (276 +/-48 vs. 291 +/- 71 mcg/L), with a significant increase in plasma IGFBP-I levels (0.56 +/- 0.2 vs. 0.98 +/- 0.38 mcg/L; P < 0.05). The IGF-I/IGFBP-I ratio was significantly lower (492.8 +/- 117 vs. 296.9 +/- 82; P < 0.05) at the end of therapy than before treatment. In conclusion, it seems to be appropriate to intervene with an insulin-sensitizing agent such as metformin in an attempt to break the pathogenetic link between hyperinsulinemia and hormonal perturbations in PCOS.

Effect of metformin on insulin-like growth factor (IGF) I and IGF-binding protein I in polycystic ovary syndrome. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[QueenBee]

Seriously good conversations are going on in here.

 

[Mighty-mouse]

Had some bloodwork today and should get results back by Friday hopefully. Did a full body panel. Test will be a little high cause I had a 125mg pin last night. But will update y’all when results get in

 

[jackmeoff1]

This seems relatable, no?

Abstract
The objective of the present study was to investigate whether metformin affected plasma concentrations of insulin-like growth factor (IGF) I and IGF-binding protein I (IGFBP-I) in polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) patients. This was an open study conducted by the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the University of Siena, Italy. Seventeen women with PCOS participated in the study and were administered metformin at a dose of 500 mg three times a day. Treatment was continued for 30-32 days, after which the pretreatment evaluation was repeated. Plasma concentrations of LH, FSH, estradiol, free testosterone, IGF-I, IGFBP-I, sex hormone-binding globulin, and insulin were evaluated. Metformin led to a significant reduction in areas under the insulin curves (9310 +/- 1509 vs. 6520 +/-1108 mU/mL x min; P < 0.05) and was associated with a decrease in plasma free testosterone levels (12.7 +/- 1.7 vs. 10.3 +/- 2 pg/mL; P < 0.05) and an increase in plasma sex hormone-binding globulin concentrations (62 +/- 8 vs. 94 +/- 13 nmol/L; P < 0.05). A nonsignificant increase in plasma IGF-I levels was observed after metformin (276 +/-48 vs. 291 +/- 71 mcg/L), with a significant increase in plasma IGFBP-I levels (0.56 +/- 0.2 vs. 0.98 +/- 0.38 mcg/L; P < 0.05). The IGF-I/IGFBP-I ratio was significantly lower (492.8 +/- 117 vs. 296.9 +/- 82; P < 0.05) at the end of therapy than before treatment. In conclusion, it seems to be appropriate to intervene with an insulin-sensitizing agent such as metformin in an attempt to break the pathogenetic link between hyperinsulinemia and hormonal perturbations in PCOS.

Effect of metformin on insulin-like growth factor (IGF) I and IGF-binding protein I in polycystic ovary syndrome. - PubMed - NCBI

Look at this study:
Metformin targets multiple signaling pathways in cancer

" In contrast, metformin can also inhibit mTOR in an AMPK-independent pathway by reducing the levels of insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) [72, 73]. Kalender et al. [74] have shown that the inhibitory effects of metformin on mTOR signaling were mediated by Rag GTPases in the absence of AMPK and TSC1/2. "

So Metformin, at least in studies has shown to inhibit IGF1, decrease protein synthesis and decrease free testosterone.

For the life of me I have no idea how this drug wound up in bodybuilding circles.

 

[QueenBee]

From Healthline dot com


Metformin is a drug designed to treat patients with Type 2 diabetes, but it comes with an interesting side effect: weight loss.

And Reddit is filled with stories from people who have lost weight on the drug. “Was trying to lose weight for a long time with no success,” one person wrote of being prescribed metformin. “I’m on 1000 mg a day and am down 10 pounds.” “I saw weight loss at first with 500 mg twice per day,” another wrote. “The difference was almost immediate.”

While some people say the drug didn’t do much for them, others swear by it—even those that don’t have Type 2 diabetes, says Fatima Cody Stanford, M.D., an instructor of medicine and pediatrics at Harvard Medical School and obesity medicine physician at Massachusetts General Hospital. In fact, Cody Stanford says that she often prescribes the medication to overweight or obese people who don't have Type 2 diabetes.

Here’s what you need to know about the drug. (https://order.hearstproducts.com/subscribe/hstproducts/238602?source=_ed_&utm_campaign=_ed_&utm_content=a19975508&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=womenshealthmag.com is the no-gimmick, you-can-do-this, time-tested playbook packed with stories and secrets from women who dropped 20, 50, even 100 pounds and kept it off for at least a year!)

How It Works
Metformin causes a decrease in the release of glucose from a person’s liver. This helps to lower a person’s blood sugar when it’s too high and restore the way someone uses food to make energy, according to the Mayo Clinic. "Weight loss can occur because it decreases appetite in some people who take it," says women's health expert Jennifer Wider, M.D.

In order for the prescription to work effectively, the amount of metformin you take must be balanced against your diet and exercise because it helps level out your blood sugar, the clinic says. For that reason, if you change your diet or exercise, you doctor may need to change the amount of metformin you take.

Can It Help You Lose Weight?
Cody Stanford says she uses the medication often in her practice among those with and without Type 2 diabetes—and it works. “While metformin is typically prescribed for the treatment of Type 2 diabetes, it has been shown to produce weight loss in some individuals with a low likelihood of adverse effects,” she says.

Here’s why: Regardless of whether or not the patient taking metformin has Type 2 diabetes or insulin resistance, the medication can improve a person’s insulin sensitivity. That increased sensitivity to insulin can keep a person's blood sugar level, which prevents the hunger and carb cravings that come with spikes and subsequent drops in blood sugar, Stanford explains. And with less cravings and carbs, you're more likely to have an easier time losing weight.

The meds also decrease a person’s glucose levels, which causes a lesser likelihood that excess sugar will be stored as fat tissue in the body, she says.

Finally, the drug can improve a person’s sensitivity to leptin, a hormone that makes you feel full and might increase your metabolism, Stanford says.

RELATED: CAN EATING THE SAME MEALS EVERY DAY HELP YOU LOSE WEIGHT?
Is It Dangerous?
The medication is considered safe to use, but the Mayo Clinic notes that it can negatively interact with certain medications like aspirin. It’s also not recommended that you drink alcohol on metformin, and you should be cautious about using the drug if you have conditions like anemia or a vitamin B12 deficiency. People with kidney and liver problems should also steer clear, Wider says.

The most common side effects of using metformin are nausea, loose stools, and abdominal pain, Stanford says. Obviously, it’s important to take the drug under a doctor’s care.

The Bottom Line
Metformin is a fairly popular drug prescribed by doctors, Stanford says, and has shown to help with weight loss. But the medication is only available by prescription, so you need to see your doctor for an evaluation to make sure it’s right for you.

 

[QueenBee]

Had some bloodwork today and should get results back by Friday hopefully. Did a full body panel. Test will be a little high cause I had a 125mg pin last night. But will update y’all when results get in

Looking forward to it.

 

[jackmeoff1]

From Healthline dot com


Metformin is a drug designed to treat patients with Type 2 diabetes, but it comes with an interesting side effect: weight loss.

And Reddit is filled with stories from people who have lost weight on the drug. “Was trying to lose weight for a long time with no success,” one person wrote of being prescribed metformin. “I’m on 1000 mg a day and am down 10 pounds.” “I saw weight loss at first with 500 mg twice per day,” another wrote. “The difference was almost immediate.”

While some people say the drug didn’t do much for them, others swear by it—even those that don’t have Type 2 diabetes, says Fatima Cody Stanford, M.D., an instructor of medicine and pediatrics at Harvard Medical School and obesity medicine physician at Massachusetts General Hospital. In fact, Cody Stanford says that she often prescribes the medication to overweight or obese people who don't have Type 2 diabetes.

Here’s what you need to know about the drug. (https://order.hearstproducts.com/subscribe/hstproducts/238602?source=_ed_&utm_campaign=_ed_&utm_content=a19975508&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=womenshealthmag.com is the no-gimmick, you-can-do-this, time-tested playbook packed with stories and secrets from women who dropped 20, 50, even 100 pounds and kept it off for at least a year!)

How It Works
Metformin causes a decrease in the release of glucose from a person’s liver. This helps to lower a person’s blood sugar when it’s too high and restore the way someone uses food to make energy, according to the Mayo Clinic. "Weight loss can occur because it decreases appetite in some people who take it," says women's health expert Jennifer Wider, M.D.

In order for the prescription to work effectively, the amount of metformin you take must be balanced against your diet and exercise because it helps level out your blood sugar, the clinic says. For that reason, if you change your diet or exercise, you doctor may need to change the amount of metformin you take.

Can It Help You Lose Weight?
Cody Stanford says she uses the medication often in her practice among those with and without Type 2 diabetes—and it works. “While metformin is typically prescribed for the treatment of Type 2 diabetes, it has been shown to produce weight loss in some individuals with a low likelihood of adverse effects,” she says.

Here’s why: Regardless of whether or not the patient taking metformin has Type 2 diabetes or insulin resistance, the medication can improve a person’s insulin sensitivity. That increased sensitivity to insulin can keep a person's blood sugar level, which prevents the hunger and carb cravings that come with spikes and subsequent drops in blood sugar, Stanford explains. And with less cravings and carbs, you're more likely to have an easier time losing weight.

The meds also decrease a person’s glucose levels, which causes a lesser likelihood that excess sugar will be stored as fat tissue in the body, she says.

Finally, the drug can improve a person’s sensitivity to leptin, a hormone that makes you feel full and might increase your metabolism, Stanford says.

RELATED: CAN EATING THE SAME MEALS EVERY DAY HELP YOU LOSE WEIGHT?
Is It Dangerous?
The medication is considered safe to use, but the Mayo Clinic notes that it can negatively interact with certain medications like aspirin. It’s also not recommended that you drink alcohol on metformin, and you should be cautious about using the drug if you have conditions like anemia or a vitamin B12 deficiency. People with kidney and liver problems should also steer clear, Wider says.

The most common side effects of using metformin are nausea, loose stools, and abdominal pain, Stanford says. Obviously, it’s important to take the drug under a doctor’s care.

The Bottom Line
Metformin is a fairly popular drug prescribed by doctors, Stanford says, and has shown to help with weight loss. But the medication is only available by prescription, so you need to see your doctor for an evaluation to make sure it’s right for you.

None of this says a thing about it's application in bodybuilding.

Low IGF1= good in doctors view.

Low IGF1= bad in a bodybuilders view

that is why it is so hard getting answers around this drug because, well, medical professionals can give two fucks about hypertrophy.

 

[fritzer]

Guess Q is short acting sliding scale with humalog pre meals and pre workout or long acting...

 

[OldSmice]

If you're an endurance athlete Metformin may not be the one to use.

Metformin directly acts on mitochondria to alter cellular bioenergetics

Results
We show that metformin decreases mitochondrial respiration, causing an increase in the fraction of mitochondrial respiration devoted to uncoupling reactions. Thus, cells treated with metformin become energetically inefficient, and display increased aerobic glycolysis and reduced glucose metabolism through the citric acid cycle. Conflicting prior studies proposed mitochondrial complex I or various cytosolic targets for metformin action, but we show that the compound limits respiration and citric acid cycle activity in isolated mitochondria, indicating that at least for these effects, the mitochondrion is the primary target. Finally, we demonstrate that cancer cells exposed to metformin display a greater compensatory increase in aerobic glycolysis than nontransformed cells, highlighting their metabolic vulnerability. Prevention of this compensatory metabolic event in cancer cells significantly impairs survival.​

 

[QueenBee]

Another good article:


gulickhhc dot com

Metformin hydrochloride has three mechanisms for anti-diabetic action.

1. Reduces gluconeogenesis and glycogenolysis, thereby decreasing the amount of glucose produced by the liver.
2. Increases sensitivity to insulin in the muscles, increasing the capture and utilization of glucose in peripheral tissues.
3. Reduces absorption of glucose in the intestine.

Metformin hydrochloride stimulates intracellular glycogen synthesis; increases the transport capacity of all types of transport systems that carry glucose through a cell membrane; positively affects the metabolism of lipids. It has been shown that metformin in therapeutic doses reduces the concentration of total cholesterol, low density lipoproteins and triglycerides. It was reported that during metformin application, the body weight of patients remained stable or decreased moderately.

Active Substance & Action Mechanism

Metformin reaches its maximal concentration in blood plasma (Tmax) within 2.5 hours after the intake. The reprted bioavailability of the drug administered in form of 500g or 850mg pills is 50-60% according to FDA. The absorption of Metformin is described as intense and incomplete in medical literature.

It is assumed that the pharmacokinetics of metformin absorption is nonlinear. When using the recommended doses of metformin and dosing regimens, stable plasma concentrations are achieved within 24-48 hours and are less than 1 μg / ml. It was reported that the maximum levels of metformin in blood plasma (Cmax) did not exceed 5 μg / ml, even with the application of maximum doses.

After oral administration of 850 mg, a decrease in peak blood plasma concentrations was achieved by 40%, a decrease in AUC by 25%, and an increase in the maximum plasma concentration of 35 minutes by 35 minutes. Clinical significance of these changes is unknown.

Metformin is to a small extent bound to plasma proteins in the blood. Metformin penetrates into erythrocytes. The maximum concentration in the blood is lower than the maximum concentration in the blood plasma, and is reached approximately at the same time. Erythrocytes are more likely to represent the second distribution chamber. The average volume of distribution (Vd) is 63-276 liters.

Dosage & Posology
When co-administered with food, absorption of metformin decreases and slows slightly.

Medical Applications
Metformin eliminates hyperglycemia, but does not cause hypoglycemia. Even in large doses, it does not stimulate insulin secretion by the pancreas, so hypoglycemia does not occur. The drug does not have any significant effect on the secretion of glucagon. cortisol, growth hormone and somatostatin.

Metformin is used in the following conditions:

• type 2 diabetes with ineffectiveness of diet therapy and exercise regimen, especially in patients with excess body weight;
• as monotherapy or combination therapy in combination with other oral hypoglycemic agents or in combination with insulin for the treatment of adults;
• as monotherapy or combined insulin therapy for the treatment of children 10 years of age and adolescents.
• reduced diabetes complications in adult type 2 and overweight patients who used metformin as a first-line drug after ineffective diet therapy.

Metformin In Bodybuilding
Metformin is used for aiding in weight loss due to its ability to accelerate the oxidation of fatty acids and inhibit the synthesis of fats, although in different tissues affects several points of application, which is expressed in diverse changes in cellular metabolism. It is also proven that the absorption of carbohydrates from the digestive tract is reduced. Metformin activates AMP kinase, thereby reducing glucose levels by suppressing its synthesis in the liver (suppressing gluconeogenesis). Recent studies have shown that exercise does not affect the overall acidity of the blood, so while you are taking Metformin, you can exercise without restriction, thereby only increasing the effectiveness of the course.

Metformin As An Anti-Ageing Drug

A new study was conducted under the guidance of professors Wang Chih-chen and Liu Guang-Hui from the Institute of Biophysics of the Chinese Academy of Sciences. The researchers were able to demonstrate that long-term administration of small doses of Metformin to cell culture slows down cell aging, especially in diploid fibroblasts and mesenchymal stem cells.

Previous researches by the same group showed that a protein called “endoplasmic reticulum glutathione-peroxidase-7” (GPx7) plays a key role in regulating protein folding processes and maintaining redox homeostasis. Now, researchers have found that small doses of metformin increase GPx7 production by activating the transcription factor Nrf2.

The concentration of GPx7 decreases as the cell becomes “decrepit,” and artificially reducing the amount of GPx7 accelerates cell aging, the researchers said. It is also interesting that the chain “Metformin – Nrf2 – GPx7” plays a certain role in the aging process of worms, and the analogue of human GPx7 in the body of worms is necessary for metformin to have a positive effect on the life expectancy of animals.

These results combine to highlight the significance of the “Nrf2 – GPx7” signaling pathway for longevity and indicate the need to look for additional evidence that metformin can be useful as a means of increasing life expectancy in humans.

Metformin For Improving Insulin Sensitivity
Metformin increases insulin receptor sensitivity to insulin, improves glucose uptake by muscles. Reducing insulin during weight loss is necessary because this hormone contributes to the deposition of nutrients in the fat, especially if the main problem area – the stomach. Immediately after a meal, the level of glucose in the blood rises sharply, to which the pancreas responds and produces insulin, which in turn forces the tissues to consume glucose, string is as fat. That is why in almost all diets for weight loss it is recommended to consume fewer foods that causes a spike in blood sugar.

Finally, insulin causes hunger, so metformin helps to suppress hunger during weight loss. The effectiveness of metformin decreases with increasing acidity of the blood, so some authors recommend eliminating exercise during the course of Metformin, since exercise leads to the formation of lactic acid.

Metformin For Weight Control

Metformin is a safe drug approved by FDA for use in healthy individuals for the purposes of weight loss.

• Follow the diet for weight loss
• Eliminate simple carbs

Metformin for weight loss is taken immediately before meals or during meals, the dose is selected individually. Most often prescribed 500-850 mg, 2-3 times a day (maximum dose of not more than 3000 mg / day). If you have diarrhea, dial down your carbohydrates. If you have nausea after taking metformin, reduce the dose. Slow increase in dose may improve gastrointestinal tolerance. Perform systematic aerobic training to maximize the effectiveness of the course.

If, after reducing the dosage, the symptoms of side effects have not disappeared, stop taking the drug and immediately seek medical attention, as there is a risk of lactic acidosis, which is fraught with death! In the event of signs of lactic acidosis, the patient is urgently hospitalized and, having determined the concentration of lactate, confirm the diagnosis. The most effective measure for the elimination of lactate and Metformin from the body is hemodialysis. Symptomatic treatment is also performed.

The duration of the drug should not exceed 18-22 days, after which you need a break for 1-2 months. A shorter break leads to the adaptation of the organism, and Metformin is not able to show the properties of a fat burner to the full. The course must be agreed with a medical specialist.

Metformin And Spironolactone: Concomitant Use In Polycystic Ovary Syndrome
Metformin taken at adequate doses (500 mg or 850 mg three times a day) has an anti-inflammatory action, partially reduces the production of androgens and is able to improve the rate of ovulation and reduce the risk of early abortion in pregnant women. This therapy is even more useful given the withdrawal from the market of silbutramine. Unfortunately, it is often not well tolerated by the patient and produces gastrointestinal disorders that induce suspension. It can also be given to thin women with insulin resistance.

An excellent result is obtained when Metformin is used alongside with the only preparation that can be used without risk of the group of antandrogenous drugs, Spironolactone which, besides having an antiandrogenic action, also has an antialdosteronic action and is therefore an anti-inflammatory and anti-atherogenic. Spironolactone reduces the hypoglycemic effect of metformin.

Metformin And Glipizide
Metformin is used as a part of combined anti-glycemic agent alongside with Glipizide. Glipizid is a second-generation sulfonylurea derivative that fosters secretion of insulin by the leaver thanks to its ability to minimize the threshold for pancreatic β-cell irritation with glucose. Glipizide increases glucose release and the degree of its binding to target cells. The drug’s efficiency is determined by the number of functioning β-cells. It inhibits aggregation of platelets, and produces a fibrinolytic, lipid-lowering and weak diuretic effect. Taken concomitantly, those to anti-glycemic agents complete each other’s action and provide more significant health outcomes in a more compact time span.

Clomid Vs. Metformin
Metformin improves the response to therapies with ovulation-inducing drugs like Clomid (clomiphene citrate): in therapies with metformin and clomiphene citrate the ovulation rates and pregnancies are higher than to those with clomiphene citrate alone. Thus, Clomid and Metformin are two effective drugs to induce ovulation in patients with polycystic ovary syndrome, although it is not yet clear which of the two drugs is to be administered first.

The study, carried out by researchers from the Magna Graecia University and the University Federico II of Naples, involved 80 infertile, anovulatory (who do not produce eggs), suffering from polycystic ovary syndrome. Patients were allocated in two comparable groups by body mass index (BMI) and age. The experimental group was treated for 6 months with 1700 mg / day of Metformin, while the control group received Clomifene using an incremental dose protocol. The study showed that both Metformin 1700 mg / day and Clomifene represent two first-line approaches able to improve fertility in anovulatory women suffering from polycystic ovarian disease.

 

[OldSmice]

Metformin inhibits mitochondrial adaptations to aerobic exercise training in older adults. - PubMed - NCBI

AET = Aerobic Exercise Training

Independent of treatment, AET decreased fat mass, HbA1c, fasting plasma insulin, 24-hr ambulant mean glucose, and glycemic variability. However, metformin attenuated the increase in whole-body insulin sensitivity and VO2 max after AET. In the metformin group, there was no overall change in whole-body insulin sensitivity after AET due to positive and negative responders. Metformin also abrogated the exercise-mediated increase in skeletal muscle mitochondrial respiration. The change in whole-body insulin sensitivity was correlated to the change in mitochondrial respiration. Mitochondrial protein synthesis rates assessed during AET were not different between treatments. The influence of metformin on AET-induced improvements in physiological function was highly variable and associated with the effect of metformin on the mitochondria. These data suggest that prior to prescribing metformin to slow aging, additional studies are needed to understand the mechanisms that elicit positive and negative responses to metformin with and without exercise.

 

[iceman440]

People posting huge studies, please give a TLR lol

So here is my question, more directed at @jackmeoff1

How many studies are showing this? I only ask because I’ve seen so many “studies” who are just college kids doing a home work assignment lol.

I really have no idea about HGH and insulin in general. So the more knowledge swung my way the better

 

[OldSmice]

I'm just posting some studies regarding one of the few downsides to Metformin use.

I use berberine, 500mg each time I eat a meal with many carbs. Seems to work for me.

 

[iceman440]

So anyone willing to spoon feed about insulin and HGH? It’s something I’ve never ventured into

 

[puckhog]

So anyone willing to spoon feed about insulin and HGH? It’s something I’ve never ventured into

Take em both. Get fukin huge! Yur welcome!

 

[jackmeoff1]

People posting huge studies, please give a TLR lol

So here is my question, more directed at @jackmeoff1

How many studies are showing this? I only ask because I’ve seen so many “studies” who are just college kids doing a home work assignment lol.

I really have no idea about HGH and insulin in general. So the more knowledge swung my way the better

Ohh I don't know the exact number. At one point I gathered 3 which had citations regarding a reduction in protein synthesis, IGF1 and free testosterone. I reached out to Dave Crossland (see his youtube) with what I found and inquired about him making a video on it. He never got around to it so I am guessing he came up short on answers too.

It's frustrating because I want to love this drug due to it's
effectiveness at controlling blood sugar (without insulin bloat!) but I can't seem to get piece of mind knowing what I know in the studies. I still do take it from time to time and I have never noticed any negative impact on my training and it does keep you lean.

 

[jackmeoff1]

So anyone willing to spoon feed about insulin and HGH? It’s something I’ve never ventured into

You trolling or are you really asking?