Scoc/Musings of a madman

[Notits]

Well stated. I am guilty myself, but would like to see a new level of civility amongst members as well. No matter how much fun it is to be a bastard...

 

[dper726]

So happy 2015 everyone! I have been noticing a few things lately that disturb me a bit and feel the need to address them in no particular order.

1. The scoc is well Intentioned, but for all intents and purposes it is worthless. The ideas are great but not enforceable. The division among meso membership even has people telling the source not to worry about conforming to the scoc- they will get orders no matter what. They are right.

2. The approach taken with new sources is wrong in my opinion. All this chest thumping, ego driven attack puts the "source" on the defensive. .. but I feel it undermines our credibility not only "on the street", but also among other members old and new. If we are confrontational to the extreme in the beginning and at the end, plus eveey time we sense an issue we simply become a parody of ourselves... Why not take the approach that the ideas in the scoc be the questions we calmly ask the source about? Why flip out when they say no to something? We can't do shit about it anyway, right? Just make it known why we feel it is a concern they do not reveal or follow tenets of the scoc.

3. Stop harassing newbies who buy- and that means don't smash the thread with "DO NOT BUY SCAMMER" shit when we actually have no proof of scamming... it seems we just yell scammer when they refuse to bend toward our egomaniacal ways- and that isn't right either. People that buy- newbies especially- are gonna buy pretty much no matter what. If we encourage feedback, encourage bloods and encourage labmax use by new members we will have an ever-expanding network of like minded, knowledgeable colleagues. Instead of getting burned and sheepishly running back silently with their tail between their legs they will provide valuable feedback.

4. More bloods. More labmax. We are doing great- I think the strength for the future lies in a larger, well informed membership of empowered individuals. When someone posts asking for a source someone should be VERY NICE- AND NOBODY SHOULD BE A FUCKING ASSHOLE IN THE THREAD. This drives them right to the scammer sources with their flashing neon lights for the ignorant. Explain things. Cut and paste a "reasons why" for a newbie thread. Something that doesn't make someone buy from a scammer and leave the board thinking we are the assholes who drove them to it.

We need more of us- not more enemies. I am finished taking the gargantuan shit I took as I wrote this but I would like to hear feedback from both sides of the fence.

@Millard Baker @Burrr @CensoredBoardsSuck @Oregongearhead @weighted chinup @Masters Power @johnnyBALLZ @flenser @pumpingiron22 @Colt44 @Voltrader @gr8whitetrukker @biggerben69

If I forgot to tag you just be happy you aren't on my mind while I take a shit.

All good points particularly #1 about the scoc in the sense that it isn't completely pointless. Rather meso isn't build to allow sources here. While the task is possible it would require restructuring. But again, meso wasn't build originally for it. And nonetheless it is great how it currently is. Why break something that isn't broken. Let's just not allow sources here. Let them infest reddit if they desire. And reedit handle according to theyre rules much like all other rules requirements upon setting up shop anywhere else. And allow us to be the go to open source for reviews without censorship. An outlet anyone can trust and an outlet the majority can call home [/dream on]

 

[Johnson513]

Well done B79... Like Will, I can't think of anything to add as of yet...

I am glad it's a sticky and we can finally start putting together all of these valid points and ideas many members are contributing, giving us all direction for the future of MESO.

 

[pmac928]

All good points particularly #1 about the scoc in the sense that it isn't completely pointless. Rather meso isn't build to allow sources here. While the task is possible it would require restructuring. But again, meso wasn't build originally for it. And nonetheless it is great how it currently is. Why break something that isn't broken. Let's just not allow sources here. Let them infest reddit if they desire. And reedit handle according to theyre rules much like all other rules requirements upon setting up shop anywhere else. And allow us to be the go to open source for reviews without censorship. An outlet anyone can trust and an outlet the majority can call home [/dream on]

I agree with this whole
Hearted. But it's just not the case here. They are going to come. I think fkit has the right idea as well in the thread he started. There should be some advanced info given to these sources about how we do things here. If after reading something like what's in that thread(most of it) they decide they want to stay. Then we bring on the questions and encourage members who decide to purchase how important labs are. I know not everyone is interested in being part of the community and only lurk. And some lurk for only sources but the better informed we are, the less likely guys lose money or worse, put something that can be toxic into their bodies.

 

[pumpingiron22]

i agree now. Im with you brutus all they way. Now where is that pudding!

 

[brutus79]

Hey- anyone who is down with this descend upon new member introductions. Make them feel welcome. Warn them about peoole trying to source via pm. Let them know we are here to answer questions. Sources are here today, gone tomorrow so we don't point them out or refer- but have them read through a source thread like pep. Or astro. Or bio. Learn. If they must buy tell them about bloodwork. Make them feel like family. I promise this is the way towards a bigger, better meso.

 

[greenddog1]

Great post Brutus. Common sense prevails!

@d-red, I have to disagree with you regarding having a moderator. We have many members here that are capable of directing the dialogs of sources on the board. Sources are going pop in and it's up to us to seek the right info and inform members of their concerns or validity of the sources' input. In a sense, we have self moderation. An appointed moderator is a form of censorship, which Millard has worked very hard to avoid. I find it a priviledge that I appreciate.

 

[Fckit]

Lol damn. I'm taking @brutus79 advice and joining in on the Meso welcome wagon in the new member section. Feels a little wierd being so nice all the time, everybody all upbeat and shit. Way more assholes in the underground haha

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

The more I think about this the more I feel this lies with how we treat new members. Treat them well, point them in the right direction as far as etiquette and knowledge and we will have an army of people who know all the right questions and tests.

Whenever you tag me in a post I never get the notifications. Strange

I spent my wad in the other thread and kind of lost faith in the member's ability to affect change. I'm burned out on this issue so I don't have much to add.

What you're proposing is essentially a member code of conduct and that's probably the best way to go about changing Meso's culture. I'm not sure I share your faith in noob's willingness to play along, or that they can be swayed by "treating them well" and "pointing them in the right direction." Most noobs are kids and kids are idiots. No matter what you tell them, they're going to do whatever them want.

Case in point is the Hammer Anabolics thread. Mr. Deltoid warned about the high risk of getting bunk or underdosed product from an UNKNOWN source, and the NEXT two posters to come stumbling along are ready and willing to place an order. You can't fix stupid. Not with love. Not with a swift kick in the ass.

Anybody that would buy from someone who admits that he doesn't test his raws is not very smart. This guy has no way of knowing what he's putting out at what concentration.

What was the test promo you had going? Never seen anything change on price...

I'd try a bottle of prop. His prices are out of line though. Asked for 30$ vial he didn't budge. If anyone orders from this guy be a bro and let us know.

Urban

 

[Big_paul]

Only Nixon could go to China.

 

[brutus79]

Whenever you tag me in a post I never get the notifications. Strange

I spent my wad in the other thread and kind of lost faith in the member's ability to affect change. I'm burned out on this issue so I don't have much to add.

What you're proposing is essentially a member code of conduct and that's probably the best way to go about changing Meso's culture. I'm not sure I share your faith in noobs, or that they can be swayed by "treating them well" and "pointing them in the right direction." Most noobs are kids and kids are idiots. No matter what you tell them, they're going to do whatever them want.

Case in point is the Hammer Anabolics thread. Mr. Deltoid warned about the high risk of getting bunk or underdosed product from an UNKNOWN source, and the NEXT two posters to come stumbling along are ready and willing to place an order. You can't fix stupid. Not with love. Not with a swift kick in the ass.

Yes, and no. I am not necessarily saying we can affect change all of the time, or even a significant amount of time with new members looking to score a source. What I do think is that if we smash them in an intro thread for source fishing and/or smash them for buying from a random source thread like most of us did they will never come back. They will move on to pm, or eroids, or wherever in shame and light some cash. We lose a member at nest and gain a detractor in the process- who wins? The scammer.

If we leave a good taste in their mouth... if they feel like they can confide in us about their mistake we will KNOW IT HAPPENED first of all- how many guys get fucked and say nothing because they were made to feel stupid? Too many I am sure- and we are down a member and none the wiser. Be a community and we will grow. The more well informed members on meso the stronger we will be.

I am not saying this is the answer- but we might keep someone around down the road who has the answer.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

I for one would like to take my minute on the damn soap box to thank the ones who came before me. The members who ooze knowledge and experience. It rubs off more on me every time they post. I gain insight to their way of thinking and helps me become a more informed user and member. These "vets" know who they are. Without our framework of members meso is Similar to other boards. Because we DO testing and we DO ask questions and we DO have experience on OUR side we have a cooperative of members here that puts meso in its rightful place as leader of uncensored knowledge.

Remember enforcing new rules of censorship on sources like the ones that some members try to level upon us is exactly that, censorship. I always thought we could get a little slide out bar or something attached to a src avi that shows a current price list. That way it's not up front and center and doesn't get lost in endless pages. It can be clicked on to see a quick list and hidden again. But nonetheless I know their are some that will never agree to sources here. Mostly the ones that have a GREAT hookup or have knowledge that some of us don't have. Which really isn't fair since they have no dog in the fight. But debate is healthy and I see both sides

 

[Burrr]

I think that is a great way to handle sources on MESO. Lots of straight talk to noobs and give them the facts.
When a guy like Hammer comes along we should just tell it like it is. He's new and may turn out to be the best Source ever, or be the guy that sold you crap gear or gave you an infection. Caveat Emptor! do you want to be the guinea pig?

 

[pumpingiron22]

I think what needs to be said is some of are role models. The way we act will be copied with new members in a sense. I know this to be true awhile back I was on a rampage. And some followed my lead. We need to keep asking smart questions. Labs set up. Do they have the right equipment .labmax and blood Testing really know are stuff. I have gone under cover as a new members and to be honest I did not feel welcomed. We are all here for knowledge and learning not gear. im still learning. We need to just let things flow. And get back in to info and learning and not so much about sources. We need to post informative threads and get members involved. I think the best thing to do is leave all this mess to rest as it has divided are board. We are all stronger together.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

I think what needs to be said is some of are role models. The way we act will be copied with new members in a sense. I know this to be true awhile back I was on a rampage. And some followed my lead. We need to keep asking smart questions. Labs set up. Do they have the right equipment .labmax and blood Testing really know are stuff. I have gone under cover as a new members and to be honest I did not feel welcomed. We are all here for knowledge and learning not gear. im still learning. We need to just let things flow. And get back in to info and learning and not so much about sources. We need to post informative threads and get members involved. I think the best thing to do is leave all this mess to rest as it has divided are board. We are all stronger together.

Whats ur other handle?

 

[Fckit]

I for one would like to take my minute on the damn soap box to thank the ones who came before me. The members who ooze knowledge and experience. It rubs off more on me every time they post. I gain insight to their way of thinking and helps me become a more informed user and member. These "vets" know who they are. Without our framework of members meso is Similar to other boards. Because we DO testing and we DO ask questions and we DO have experience on OUR side we have a cooperative of members here that puts meso in its rightful place as leader of uncensored knowledge.

Remember enforcing new rules of censorship on sources like the ones that some members try to level upon us is exactly that, censorship. I always thought we could get a little slide out bar or something attached to a src avi that shows a current price list. That way it's not up front and center and doesn't get lost in endless pages. It can be clicked on to see a quick list and hidden again. But nonetheless I know their are some that will never agree to sources here. Mostly the ones that have a GREAT hookup or have knowledge that some of us don't have. Which really isn't fair since they have no dog in the fight. But debate is healthy and I see both sides

I get what you're saying, but here's my stance. Not sure if you're referring to my thread or not, but I'll give you my thought process.

First off, tell me how many legitimate sources have been produced via the underground. Now, with that answer in mind, is our job as a community to protect our members (even newbs)? So no, I'm in NO WAY against sources being on Meso. What I am against is the 100% fail rate of sources here peddling, often dangerous, gear to unsuspecting newbs.

This thread is ON POINT. Informing and educating newer guys is ON POINT. I made that thread to also educate MEMBERS on what they should expect from an eventual source and where their standards should be set. When I first started, I thought the 30% dosed gear I was getting was the shit. If we create a market for shitty, underdosed gear, you can bet the scammers will flock. If making Meso seem like a non-welcoming place to shitty sources even discourages a few of these shit heads to go away, I feel like it's a small victory.

How is setting standards for people that insist on sourcing here a bad thing? It's not censorship, only a warning. And an honest warning at that.

Again, not saying you were or weren't talking about my thread, but the discussion is relative.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

IIget what you're saying, but here's my stance. Not sure if you're referring to my thread or not, but I'll give you my thought process.

First off, tell me how many legitimate sources have been produced via the underground. Now, with that answer in mind, is our job as a community to protect our members (even newbs)? So no, I'm in NO WAY against sources being on Meso. What I am against is the 100% fail rate of sources here peddling, often dangerous, gear to unsuspecting newbs.

This thread is ON POINT. Informing and educating newer guys is ON POINT. I made that thread to also educate MEMBERS on what they should expect from an eventual source and where their standards should be set. When I first started, I thought the 30% dosed gear I was getting was the shit. If we create a market for shitty, underdosed gear, you can bet the scammers will flock. If making Meso seem like a non-welcoming place to shitty sources even discourages a few of these shit heads to go away, I feel like it's a small victory.

How is setting standards for people that insist on sourcing here a bad thing? It's not censorship, only a warning. And an honest warning at that.

Again, not saying you were or weren't talking about my thread, but the discussion is relative.

I read a little of your thread but not all of It. I was referring to the no sourcing stance some believe in. These people say no price lists and no open dialogue regarding sales. I think that's crazy. Its censorship. If we as a group go this direction then go all the way. Not some half assed attempt to rid sourcing. But do remember there are "private" sources here. How do we handle them? Its all very silly

 

[Fckit]

I read a little of your thread but not all of It. I was referring to the no sourcing stance some believe in. These people say no price lists and no open dialogue regarding sales. I think that's crazy. Its censorship. If we as a group go this direction then go all the way. Not some half assed attempt to rid sourcing. But do remember there are "private" sources here. How do we handle them? Its all very silly

Gotcha. We're basically in agreement. I'm pro "keeping all this shit in the open" regarding sources

 

[pmac928]

What happens when hammer tanks and the Guys that are over there so eager to jump on them start crying. Do we have sympathy for them guys and take their backs even after all the warnings were given? It's going to happen. I personally won't have sympathy for anybody in that situation. It has happened and will continue to happen, I just hope tht the help we are willing to provide reaches more guys that will use it. Only time will tell I guess, but even after all this discussion guys are ready and willing to step right up. Kind of discouraging.

 

[brutus79]

I read a little of your thread but not all of It. I was referring to the no sourcing stance some believe in. These people say no price lists and no open dialogue regarding sales. I think that's crazy. Its censorship. If we as a group go this direction then go all the way. Not some half assed attempt to rid sourcing. But do remember there are "private" sources here. How do we handle them? Its all very silly

Which is why I don't think "sources" or "no sources" are the only choices. How about more members making better choices. Knowing what is realistic to expect. Who knows? Maybe the next member you make friends with owns a hormone factory in China- does that appeal to the self serving genre? [emoji12]