MESO-Rx Exclusive Steroid users say bad things about trenbolone - how accurate are the descriptions?

[Methyl Mike]

I know you've read a lot of the negative things said on the steroid forums about trenbolone. The MESO forum is no exception. You may be one of the people posting these negative things.

Anthropologist Mair Underwood has spent several years listening to bodybuilders talk about steroids in real life, on the forums, and on social media. Trenbolone is one of those steroids that stands out. The following article discusses trenbolone - as described by bodybuilders.

How accurate are these descriptions? Accurate? True? Exaggerated? False? Bullshit? What do you think?

Should You Take Tren? The Pros and Cons of Trenbolone as Described by Bodybuilders

I have never heard of an enhancement drug that is more polarising than trenbolone. Some love it, others hate it, and many have a love/hate relationship

thinksteroids.com

The only side I got from tren appears to be kidney stress. I noticed basically ALL of the symptoms of kidney disease or stress when I had been on it for a few months. I am off it now and magically all the symptoms went with jt. Lethargy being itchy my feet were swollen problems sleeping getting up constantly to pee at night. Strangely my urine is always pretty clear but I drink a ton of water.

 

[Methyl Mike]

Also @Millard that article that Mair penned on tren has some pretty bad typing errors. It was ok otherwise. I would be happy to be a proof reader for you.

 

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

Let me put it to you this way then, I really hope you have someone else doing your editing before you even try to submit to anyone to be published. Nobody worth their weight would take this seriously.
As far as your quotes, no need to put whatever your source repeated twice. Your approach adds nothing. Put it once in quotes. It is that simple.

When you write any kind of research it is important to keep your audience focused on a specific topic. Spelling errors, English errors, repeating line errors are distracting and take a reader's focus away from the message. In addition, they will likely assume you have no idea what you are talking about.

You should be as concerned about the editing and presentation as you are with the content. When going to get published this also means consistency in presentation (margins, font, indent, table alignment, picture alignment, etc).

I will give you props for having some visuals and memes. Visuals always help but need to also add value. I suggest you figure out how to quantify some of your research and insert tables and graphs. Put more of your own thought into the conclusion and rationalize how you reached your conclusion.

PS, thank you for your contribution here. One thing you did quite well was for the most part writing for likely the majority of your audience here at Meso. If you want to be serious about publishing anything of value outside of forums, you will need to fine tune some things.

Thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate it. I have checked several times and I can't see any errors. If it is formatting it would be on Millard as I just gave him the word doc. I can't see any repeated lines, spelling errors or grammatical errors (although I have used Australian/British English and not American - is that what you are talking about?).
I am a qualitative researcher - see where I discuss this in the paper. We don't deal with numbers but rather meaning, experience, values, norms etc. Things that can't be quantified. We often do the exploratory work (like this research on tren) to identify the issues because our approach is inductive and not limited to preconceived ideas, and then we leave it to the survey people to work out things like prevalence. Although I am thinking of collaborating with some quant people to explore this and other topics like muscle dysmorphia symptomology.
I have published in many very reputable international journals and have never had a problem with my writing. Yes, I did write this for Meso, and not in an academic style like my usual writing, but I am still stumped as to what you are talking about with regards errors

 

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

Apparently if I want to get any response from her it'd be more effective to insult her, that seems to work well. Not my style or intention though.

My only lingering question pertains to research methods, how she will quantify anecdotes. Whether using a thematic analysis method, or not? If quantified appropriately I'm more interested versus just reporting what's salacious or even prurient, which seems to be what she's most interested in.

No need to insult me, I am happy to engage with you
I am not a quantitative researcher. I am a qualitative researcher (see bit in paper where I discuss this and previous reply above). My research method is ethnography (see Ethnography - Wikipedia), digital ethnography to be specific. This tren topic seems to get a lot of people riled up because they see it as, as you said, "salacious" or "purient". I can assure you that my other papers are nothing like this (e.g. if you read my previous muscle dysmorphia papers for meso you can see what I mean). I only report what bodybuilders say about tren and they talk in very dramatic and sexual ways about it. I just report what I find. It just so happens to be a bit dramatic and sexual when it comes to this topic, but that's the data, not my specific focus. I just collected comments on tren and summarised and reported them

 

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

My tren relationship has been very complicated at first.

My first two years of tren were awesome and horrible at the same time. I had all the side effect related to it. Sweatiness, heartburn strong as fuck, couldn't sleep well, I was smelling like Tren (and no guaicol or any strange solvent was into the oil), acne (even tho my E2 were under control), once I even had leaky tits ahahah, cheating paranoia, short fuse.

Now if you stop reading at this point you will think: fuck so all those stories of tren are real!

Well I'm no so sure, let's go further few years later after stopping cycling for 2 years and more I have come back into the game and of course what I'm gonna run if not my favourite compound... Lovely Tren.

Same dosage as alway 600mg of Tren E.

Side effect? Almost none. Sweatiness yes and.... Nothing more.

So were are all those mental and physical side effect I always had before?

I started thinking about it and have maybe two explanation, the first is that maybe the body does change and adjust itself and so now I don't have heartburn anymore, I can sleep like a baby etc.

The second is that the mental problem are just overblown OR Tren is just a catalyst for your own weakness. I was a different person when I started using it, so it's not Tren that makes you a cunt is just you being a little shit and tren is a facilitator into indulging in bad behaviour.

For anyone wondering about the dick side effect... Yep from the first day until now it's rock hard and my wife got me a girlfriend or two so that she can relax a bit from me chasing her pussy all the time.

actually sorry for all the misspelling not easy to write with your dick as a pencil

That is so interesting - Maybe it was just that you "grew up" a bit/were more self aware and therefore weren't so susceptible?

 

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

I was hoping this researcher was working on a paper to really quantify the anecdotes about particular substances to help the community. Once you read her papers more deeply than glossing over the Abstract and Conclusion you realize she's just using this article, her avatar, persona, et cetera to bootstrap conversation to study us.

Certain research methods in the social sciences permit an author to dynamically study phenomena surrounding "IPED" use and really hone in on the salacious details, disregarding the bigger picture (that we are an amorphous group of different backgrounds). Naturally, it's interesting to study the outliers, and miss the broader picture with such methods.

Interesting perspective. I really would like to collaborate with some quantitative researchers to work out how common these sides are. I am just scoping the issue as this is exploratory research. If you notice I also say that some people experience few sides and some actually seem to experience mental health benefits. It is my aim to present a balanced view of the drug, it's just that bodybuilder comments on tren are not very balanced. As I said in the paper it may just be that those who have bad sides are more vocal about it than those who have few (which makes sense)

 

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

I'm too old for tren

When do you get too old for tren? and how do you know?

 

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

Also @Millard that article that Mair penned on tren has some pretty bad typing errors. It was ok otherwise. I would be happy to be a proof reader for you.

I'm trying to find all these errors you are talking about - am I seeing a different version to you or what? Aside from Australian English, rather than American, and errors made by the people I am quoting verbatim, I am really stumped as to what you are talking about. Can you please give me some specific examples? I would really appreciate it as I have never had any problems with the quality of my writing in any of my previous papers for Meso, nor for academic journals

 

[TrennedOutLunatic]

@TrennedOutLunatic say something, maybe different from “something”

Ofcourse.

There you go

 

[FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR]

Ofcourse.

There you go

interesting… it s obvious you got a PhD in quantum physics applied to chemistry… very very enlightening, thanks for sharing your knowledge man

 

[TrennedOutLunatic]

interesting… it s obvious you got a PhD in quantum physics applied to chemistry… very very enlightening, thanks for sharing your knowledge man

It is my field.

You are welcome.

 

[Millard]

We did this to ourselves. We gave it this halo reputation as the god of steroids and expected inexperienced, not-ready-for-it bros to not flock to it like the second coming.

it’s just another tool. My take is a VAST majority of people’s issues with tren are issues with themselves. As a drug it has a higher side effect profile for most people than most other AAS compounds. But the anger and a lot of those sides can be mitigated by knowing how you respond to gear and making changes accordingly. A good deal of the reputation is mental. Guys expect to be gods in the gym and accept that they’re inevitably a dickhead because they’re taking it. What do you get? Dickheads with PRs…

I've spent decades countering the demonization of steroids in mainstream media. That (demonizing) is not what @MairUnderwood(Researcher) is doing with her article. The article just holds up a mirror to what bodybuilders are saying about steroids (tren)

Bodybuilders are indeed doing it to themselves. What happens when it is the bodybuilders who are doing the demonizing, who are creating hysteria, who are exaggerating and embellishing the side effects. It's not like Mair is digging hard to selectively find these type of discussions about tren. They are numerous examples on this forum and elsewhere.

Bodybuilders can be their own worst enemies. Violent assholes and sexual predators would like nothing more than to blame AAS for their actions rather than accept responsibility and admit they are the problem. Why are bodybuilders allowing them to get away with it?

 

[Millard]

Which bits are overblown do you think? Some of the bodybuilder comments, or my words (coz I really don't want to overblow things but I can't help it if the bodybuilders do)

It's one thing when "outsiders" are promoting reefer madness but what about when the actual users in a marginalized group are the ones doing it? It's arguably far worse for the group. I wish bodybuilders would stop being sheep and think more about the things they are saying rather than promoting tren as the devil.

 

[Millard]

The dose that doesn't make you want to rape anyone.

When I was still new to AAS, the general consensus was that 400mg was a good starter dose. Now, I tend to agree that more people will be able to tolerate 400mg than not.

However, in the last year or two I've seen a shift towards lower suggested doses with not just tren, but pretty much any AAS. It's nice to see that too, it's like everyone arrived at the realization, at the same time, in their AAS career where you start to recognize that extreme doses don't necessarily equal extreme results.

So with that said, I've seen more recommendations for 150mg-200mg doses of tren recently than I ever have - and I wholeheartedly agree with those recommendations. I've personally done 200mg cycles of tren and I was completely satisfied. I also don't really see the need to ever go beyond 700mg, I traveled far past that benchmark and the returns very quickly diminish.

150-200mg of Tren Ace for ~4wks and increase, if desired, by 50-100mg a week for those that are hesitant or have reason to believe they may encounter side effects. Pretty conservative approach that the vast majority should be able to tolerate.

Trenbolone is just another tool. Just another steroid. Sure, it has some very unique characteristics. In large part, I think the dosages are what get people in trouble - and lead to all kinds of hysteria about dangers and side effects.

Many fail to acknowledge that the potency of trenbolone is many times higher than other injectables when administered at equivalent doses.

500mg tren is not the same as 500mg test or 500mg deca or 500mg masteron.

When you get the dose right most of this hysteria magically goes away.

 

[Millard]

maybe try a writing class as from the article it is abysmal. Spell check, proof read….

It has some relevant information that I hear all the time and pretty much what bros believe to be the case but it difficult to read with all the repeated lines and errors.

Also @Millard that article that Mair penned on tren has some pretty bad typing errors. It was ok otherwise. I would be happy to be a proof reader for you.

I thought this was obvious to everyone. And most people get it. But for those who don't, I will spell it out:

The misspellings and grammatical errors contained within the original bodybuilder statements are intentional. The statements were quoted verbatim and unchanged in any way.

Just like the bodybuilders themselves are responsible for the reefer madness and hysteria about trenbolone, they are also responsible for their spelling difficulties and propensity for grammatical errors.

The fact that the statements are quoted should be a clear indicator that the mistakes are not Mair's and she is not responsible for them.

I guess there are ways to further indicate this e.g. using [sic]. This is probably more common in academic journals. I don't know that this is really necessary for an informal article published on MESO.

 

[FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR]

Trenbolone is just another tool. Just another steroid. Sure, it has some very unique characteristics. In large part, I think the dosages are what get people in trouble - and lead to all kinds of hysteria about dangers and side effects.

Many fail to acknowledge that the potency of trenbolone is many times higher than other injectables when administered at equivalent doses.

500mg tren is not the same as 500mg test or 500mg deca or 500mg masteron.

When you get the dose right most of this hysteria magically goes away.

150mg weekly in ED fashion, great results and zero heartburn… but to prevent it i ll do 2 weeks on 1 off… today i end the first 2 weeks… tomorrow ill have one week with 80mg ED Anavar pre wo instead of tren ace..

 

[lifter6973]

When do you get too old for tren? and how do you know?

The side effects creep up on me faster now and outweigh the benefits vs 8 to 10 years ago. I get hooked on the benefits but forgot how bad I feel when the side effects hit. I don't bounce back as fast.
Blood results, liver values especially suffer on tren even with NAC, TUDCA, etc. Nothing is better for getting my strength through the roof quickly but out of injectables, tren is the most toxic for me.

 

[lifter6973]

I thought this was obvious to everyone. And most people get it. But for those who don't, I will spell it out:

The misspellings and grammatical errors contained within the original bodybuilder statements are intentional. The statements were quoted verbatim and unchanged in any way.

Just like the bodybuilders themselves are responsible for the reefer madness and hysteria about trenbolone, they are also responsible for their spelling difficulties and propensity for grammatical errors.

The fact that the statements are quoted should be a clear indicator that the mistakes are not Mair's and she is not responsible for them.

I guess there are ways to further indicate this e.g. using [sic]. This is probably more common in academic journals. I don't know that this is really necessary for an informal article published on MESO.

It isn't necessary for any forum like Meso. I was trying to give advice for academic journals. Perhaps this style of writing is more acceptable for bodybuilding magazines vs academic journals?
I guess this is outside what I normally come across in research as mine is more quantitative and all journals I have been involved with are VERY strict.
I thought if the author was shooting for a researcher/writer career she might want some differing views. However, if she has already published successfully in academic journals I guess she doesn't need too much advice so I will stop giving advice.
I do appreciate the forum contribution @MairUnderwood(Researcher) and I kind of see what you and @Millard are doing in posting here as the discussion can give you more writing points. I did answer your question in another post on why I think I am too old for Tren.

 

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

It's one thing when "outsiders" are promoting reefer madness but what about when the actual users in a marginalized group are the ones doing it? It's arguably far worse for the group. I wish bodybuilders would stop being sheep and think more about the things they are saying rather than promoting tren as the devil.

Thanks Millard, I love this line of thought and am considering including it for the book chapter I am writing on tren. Since I started researching tren it has struck me that bodybuilders describe tren like the mainstream media describe all AAS, and I am genuinely surprised by this. What does it mean when the marginalized describe their drug of choice in this "reefer madness" way? I think it does point to the fact that harms are increased by this compound (as compared to other AAS). But if these descriptions are sensationalised, embellished, exaggerated and all the other things that readers of my paper have complained about, why is this happening? To add excitement? To add danger to what are probably pretty safe lives? (I am presuming most tren users are privileged enough to live in pretty safe countries and to not be wanting for food, shelter etc).

 

[NLM36]

Thanks Millard, I love this line of thought and am considering including it for the book chapter I am writing on tren. Since I started researching tren it has struck me that bodybuilders describe tren like the mainstream media describe all AAS, and I am genuinely surprised by this. What does it mean when the marginalized describe their drug of choice in this "reefer madness" way? I think it does point to the fact that harms are increased by this compound (as compared to other AAS). But if these descriptions are sensationalised, embellished, exaggerated and all the other things that readers of my paper have complained about, why is this happening? To add excitement? To add danger to what are probably pretty safe lives? (I am presuming most tren users are privileged enough to live in pretty safe countries and to not be wanting for food, shelter etc).

A lot of it is it gets parroted and spoken as gospel so guys think it’s the experience they’re supposed to have or they say it to fit in to be apart of the crowd.
Also there’s something to be said of expectations and placebo.
Some of things I’ve read about tren, if I hadn’t used it a lot in the past id think people using it would getting arrested left and right, but if you look at who’s filling the jail cells bodybuilders and gym rats are the exception and not the rule